User talk:Tabib

• Archive 1 - January 24-March 26, 2005

Reply to call for cooperation

Hi Tabib. I agree with everything you said in my talk page and I think we can definitely work together to make Nagorno-Karabakh into an article that is truly NPOV and acceptable even to the extremists on both sides. However, as I've mentioned before, I have recently found myself very busy, given that I will be graduating my university in May, and I'm currently faced with a lot of academic work and pressure. Hopefully I will be able to find time to work with you on the article once my midterm exams are over this week. Meanwhile, best of luck with discussing the issue with the other involved parties. Thanks. --Aramգուտանգ 11:38, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, I got your e-mail. I think talk pages are probably best for discussion, so that others can later see how various compromises and deductions were made, plus it's easier to follow the conversation, as opposed to searching for old e-mails. We could do it in a subsection of the talk page or our user pages if you want to keep the actual N-K talkpage uncluttered. I'll let you know as soon as I have the time so we can start. It's funny, because we haven't even gotten to the most controversial aspects of the conflict yet (e.g. in you e-mail you used the terms "Khojaly massacre" and "Sumgait tragedy", whereas i know the events as the "Khojaly tragedy" and "Sumgait massacre", but we'll discuss this later). Take care. --Aramգուտանգ 00:03, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration case - final decision

A decision has been reached in the arbitration case relating to you. All sockpuppet accounts of LIGerasimova/Osmanoglou/etc. are to be blocked indefinitely; User: Rovoam has been issued with a revert limitation and a personal attack parole; no remedies were passed relating to you. Please see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Baku Ibne, et al.#Final decision for further details and the full decision. -- sannse (talk) 18:07, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for being so patient, Tabib. I know the progress of this long case must have worried you greatly, but we got there in the end. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 20:17, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I noticed that your user page is still protected because of the vandalism, which seems to have stopped now. I can remove protection if you want. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 10:36, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Tabib! I am about to start another editing war. Are you ready?

You have won an arbitration case. Please accept my congratulation! Now I am about to start a new war with you, as your point of view has not been changed. Yor are very nationalistic writer, and my goal is to make you think a bit more, before you do your reverts. Understand? --User:72.25.94.186 03:19, Apr 24, 2005 - text attribution by --Tabib 05:14, May 2, 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

Be careful, Tabib. Don't assume that Rovoam's edits can be reverted without risking Three Revert Rule, only reverts of "simple vandalism" are exempt and Rovoam is too clever to do that. Please just step back and disengage, and rely on others including me to deal with this. We won't let you down. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:49, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Also recall that Rovoam is on a revert limitation so he cannot win a revert war. He will be blocked. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 12:27, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

He came back as User:64.136.2.254 (a known Rovoam sock) and so I have blocked him on both IPs for 24 hours for breaking his revert limitation. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 00:07, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Question from User:Vital Component

Tabib if Nakhi isnt sstill claiming independence why has worldstatesmen.org not stated it? You kinow that even though Azzy claims it to be autonomous that doesnt make it de facto true. Even though Chechnia is independent it is still a Russian province in the de jore. - Vital Component

Vital Component, I have separated your post from the one above, because you posted for a different reason. please, use headline when posting new messages. This is easy, you just have to click on the 5th button (with a big "A").

As to your question, I dont know why worldstatesmen.org doesn't have this info. I quickly looked at their web-site and in fact they have lots of useful info but also many factual errors. If I were you, I would just write them and ask them for clarification.--Tabib 08:29, Apr 30, 2005 (UTC)

Urartu

Hey, just wanted to say thanks for your work on this article. Nice additions. Isomorphic 15:45, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

:: The best writeup on the subject, that I have read so far, I would sayPusti Malaka 29 June 2005 23:34 (UTC)

Caucasian Albania

Yea, I just made the wikilink to History of Albania due to one of the reference books (Movses Kalankatuatsi. History of Albania.) was listed. I was actually hoping to link it to the book, but I know now that is a different Albania. Thanks. Who 03:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Rovoam

While Rovoam is under a revert parole, he is not a "banned user". You should probably stop claiming that Rovoam is banned - it is misleading. Rhobite 04:53, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. I have used the words 'previously blocked' and 'banned' interchangeably. But this actions really anger me and Rovoam's intention is namely to get me down, to make me to respond to him in a similar manner. His reverts are accompanies by personal insults to me and to my ethnic background. This is INTOLERABLE. Moreover, he is gradually increasing the number of the pages he vandalizes. . Initially he vandalized the Nagorno-Karabakh page, then it spread out to Caucasian Albania, then to Artsakh, then to Azerbaijan, Arran (Azerbaijan), Kura-Araxes culture and now even to Safavids and Turkey. This person simply goes to any page that I have ever contributed to.

Rhobite, you are familiar with the history of Rovoam's actions against me, I ask you for help in dealing with this person. This person should be banned from editing Wikipedia not "temporarily" but *FOREVER*--Tabib 05:37, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

If there are specific examples of vandalism, please report them in the proper place, WP:VIP. I think you may have a tendency to exaggerate your accusations. This has two drawbacks: First, it doesn't do anything to resolve your dispute. Second, it makes people reluctant to help you. If editors can't be sure that what you say is accurate, they are less likely to defend your changes to articles. Most of your edit summaries simply attack Rovoam, rather than explaining why you believe your version is more accurate.

I don't know enough about the subject matter to start editing these articles. And I don't feel comfortable blocking Rovoam right now. If Rovoam does something that is truly against the rules, please report it in the proper place. Rhobite 05:49, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Rhobite, I am rather surprised to receive such cold-blooded reply from you. What evidences should I bring? Isn't it apparent from the history logs of those pages?.. Here's just one single and most recent edit [1] where he says "I like to play this game with stupid Turkich people! It's fun!" (?!). Also remember that this person has promiced in the past "to destroy the idea of Wikipedia" (?!) [2], he is apparently obsessed with his nationalistic ideas and personal hatred with me. Please, do not get deceived by his actions as if there is a dispute between me and Rovoam. This is wrong approach to the problem. The disputes between me and Rovoam are OVER. I have no dispuite with Rovoam any more and all I want is for him to stop his vandalisms. But, you are right, I will finally report all his vandalisms in WP:VIP. --Tabib 07:15, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

I have reported Rovoam's vandalisms in WP:VIP. I also ask Rhobite and/or any other admin to block Rovoam for his personal insults on me and other editors who have Turkic background. (most recent examples, "I like to play this game with stupid Turkich people! It's fun!", " like stuffed Turkey too!", rv changes made by User:Tabib, who has been BANNED from all articles in Wikipedia by me"). He is under personal attack parole and these insults give solid ground for blocking him for a week.--Tabib 07:47, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

I don't think his edits count as vandalism, quite, but they're arguably intended to disrupt rather than to make Wikipedia better. They've been coupled with personal attacks so I've blocked his known IP numbers for three days. If he comes back before that time let me know. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 08:31, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Republic of Nakhichevan

Why the autonomous region has been given a page there has been no attemp to distinguish between that and the succecionist state. While it appears the separtists excepted autonomy that is not the case. Who is the leader of Nakhi today? Worldstatesmen.org has left gaps in its goverment info causing more of this dispute. It is clear from the succceionist/separtist movements page on this site that the Republic of Nakhi. is still in rebelion. Worldstatesmen has added fuel to this arguement due to its lack of info on the separtist's disolution. So the few remaining questions now are who's incharge, and where to get that info from.

No problem

I fixed the problem in the article. Regarding Rovoam himself, I've contacted the powers that be to get a more permanent solution in place, but for now I'll just keep swatting him like a fly. Gets my edit count up, you know :) CryptoDerk 13:43, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

No problem. I can keep blocking open proxies and protecting pages, etc. Now that I'm using my own program, once I notice him messing around, I can block him within 5 seconds. Cheers. CryptoDerk 16:31, May 27, 2005 (UTC)

I Don't Think So

Don't offer me support; From what I have seen it's clear that you're anti-Armenian. I saw that you removed information about the Armenian Genocide and stated that it was a political reason. Don't give me that, I have family that died in that terrible event. It happened, just as much as the Jewish Genocide by Nazi Germany. You are just as ignorant, if not more so, as those people who want to exclude Armenia and Georgia from the Europe template. Moosh88

Well, in my message to you all I did is to offer you my support in Armenia's inclusion in Template:Europe, because, I also want Armenia's inclusion in this template. Therefore, I don't think I deserved such ungrounded accusations. Please, keep in mind, I did not "remove" any information from "Armenian genocide" entry, in fact I never got involved in that entry except for restoring tags removed by various anons. As to your feelings, I believe, in Turkey, esp. its eastern parts, one may also find many families which also have terrible memories from the past going back to the years of turmoil, war and interethnic conflict during World War I. So, hatred and feeling of revenge is not a solution.

In any case, if you do not need my help, it's your right and decision, but I will strongly urge you not to mess with Azerbaijan page in which you removed once Template:Europe [3] which I had later to restore [4]. Also, bear in mind that if you persist in forcefully including Armenia in template without getting enough votes for its inclusion, you will undermine your own position. So, it's up to you to make the use of this advise.--Tabib 06:59, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Rovoam

Hi Tabib, I apologise for my ham-fisted comments about Rovoam, I hope I did not cause any offense. I have to say that I did not look at the comments he added in great detail, I am more used to the blatant racism of anti-Jewish editors. Reviewing the edits I see that they are indeed anti-Azeri, I should have paid more attention, sorry. Rje 17:49, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

Attentiveness

I'm not sure how being "more attentive" would have helped me to see that the article was vandalism by User:Rovoam. Could you please explain what I need to be paying attention to, in order to rise to your expections of me as a Wikipedian editor? - CobaltBlueTony 15:56, Jun 10, 2005 (UTC)

Dropping a note/apology

Hey Tabib, sorry I've been so quiet for the past month or so, but my personal life has been significantly interefering with my Wikipedia activity. As indicated by the WikiHoliday note on my user page, the complexities of graduation, staring a career and moving have left me with very little time to spend on Wikipedia, meaning the most I can contribute to the project at this time is checking my watchlist for vandalism and erroneous edits. If you want to collaborate with someone to create a Nagorno-Karabakh page where the neutrality shines so clearly, that even Rovoam will be satisfied, you may want to find someone else in the short-term. However, as soon as I find that I can dedicate chunks of time loger than 5 or 10 minutes to Wikipedia, you'll be the first to know, and we can proceed with the discussions as planned. I'm sorry I kept indicating that such a time may come sooner, things just didn't go the way I was expecting them to. Anyway, take care and good luck in your fight against vandalism. --Aramգուտանգ 05:23, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Pantherarosa

That is, indeed, a completely uncalled for personal attack. That said, I'm not sure what's to be done about it. I don't think the arbitrators would accept a case solely on the basis of that one thing. I'd suggest waiting and seeing if he does it again. john k 14:29, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Start with a requests for comment, I guess. john k 14:40, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I am concerned about the personal attack on you made by Pantherarosa, and should he continue with this activity he would be subject to a ban or personal attack parole. However you seem to be adding fuel to the fire in your comment on his talk page. I suggest you simply delete these attacks and keep a record of them for future reference without comment. Out policy allows action with respect to personal attacks only in the case of repeated infractions. Fred Bauder 14:06, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

The problem with Rovoam seems to be well known. If you can think of any idea that would work, please propose it. Fred Bauder 14:39, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Tabib!

I was wandering, most of all, what that by 1918 passage had to do with the origin of the name (?!), but limited myself to sources because I didn't want to get drowned in material I'm not particularly familliar with, which is why I kept refering to 'when Tabib gets back...' :). Incidentally, I find that origin of the name section (as the 1st section), which in a somewhat unorthodox way precedes the history preview, a bit problematic. Do you find it needs to be shortened; components integrated with the leads and other areas of the article, or even worthy of its own article and having a biref preview linking to it. What do you think? Thanks again for the wikidefender barnstar. I'm greatly relieved to see you're back. Yours, El_C 22:01, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

67.49.26.236, 64.136.2.254, Luba Gerasimova. Best regards, El_C 12:32, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Iranian Azerbaijan

Hi tabib I changed your article again, :-( Please see the talk-page, there i wrote my argument

Rovoam

With respect to the complaint you posted on my talk page, please take it to Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Requests_for_Clarification and tell us all what you want us to do. I would say that we could clarify the decision in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Baku Ibne, et al. to provide for banning of any additional sockpuppet accounts and review the decision with respect to User:Rovoam. Please notify Rovoam of your request should you make it. User:Fred Bauder 14:16, Jun 22, 2005 (text attribution by --Tabib 16:26, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC))

Ok blocked all I could find. Please keep me up to date on any new ones, but be careful, don't want to block innocent new users. Fred Bauder June 29, 2005 18:08 (UTC)

question on Rovoam

(copied from User talk:Netoholic)
Hi Netoholic,

Could you give me some clarification regarding Rovoam's listing under "List of users banned by the Wikipedia community" ([5])? In particular, I am wondering what the implications of this (semi-)official decision would be? Does it mean that any Wikipedia editor now can revert freely and without consideratrion all edits by anons suspected to be Rovoam? Does it apply only to the actual entries or to the entry talkpages as well? How strong and lasting the endorsement of this decision can be? Can an editor (I, for example) appeal to WP:ANI and refer to this ban when appealing the ANI? any other info you might provide to clarify for me the essence of this decision. Hope to hear from you. Thanks.--Tabib 16:36, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

Rovoam's anon IP edits are already being reverted wholesale. He's also threatened to DoS attack Wikipedia and to continue vandalizing. This is unredeemable, and as yet no one is coming forward to support Rovoam's actions. So yes, I'd say you are safe reverting all edits you believe are his and to refer to him as a banned user. If he ever wishes to repent, the community can revoke this ban easily. -- Netoholic @ 16:45, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

Can you please review this page? Talk:Moses_Kalankaytuk Rovoam has started an entry which was relevent, in fact, it was better thing to do leave him contribute in starting a new article than having him fight against Tabib(who is not that innocent if you ask me). Just please read Tabibs answer and how it has degenerated. You are giving legitimity to Tabib to start editing others post by adding the title Vandal, and using their talk page to attack them. It is not to Tabib to take such decisions, but the Arbcom and the Admins. The guy is using Rovoam behavour to give legitimity to everything he does. Fadix 17:55, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Maybe you can help?

You seem to be an expert on Caucasian Albania. Are youLorda Sfigata 29 June 2005 23:16 (UTC)

Are you sure regarding Nagorno Karabagh? It would be wonderful, indeed.

Most of the lesser approximations provide a basis for far more levelled interpolation. I would therefor challenge the inherent apocatastasis, while, of course I agree fully with the projected , and well characterized leverage, which you were kind enough to expand in minute detail. It is heartening to see an editor graft the unspoken with the defecated and disemboweled. Perhaps this holds even in light of two wrought syllables. Good job!!--Pusti Malaka 29 June 2005 23:30 (UTC)