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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Crisco 1492 talk 17:41, 24 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment or view
Article history

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... that Sean Combs promised not to spill champagne on the Declaration of Independence?

Source: ["No one would ever expect a young black man to be coming to a party with the Declaration of Independence, but I got it, and it's coming with me ... And I promise not to spill champagne on it" https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2004/07/07/p-diddy-does-politics/, https://archive.is/ivRpf, P. Diddy does politics, The Tampa Bay Times, 7 July 2004]

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Middlesex Regiment alien labour units

Created by No Swan So Fine (talk). Number of QPQs required: 1. Nominator has 122 past nominations.

No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:17, 23 October 2024 (UTC).[reply]

Hello No Swan So Fine: article created within a week of nomination; QPQ checks out; hook is interesting; no copyvio detected; source checks out. My only question: would it be better to call Mr. Combs by his more well known name of P. Diddy or Diddy? I'm not sure if I'd click on the DYK if it said Sean Combs, I'd be much more likely to do so if it said Diddy, given the recent news and memes. My only thought. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 05:12, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Darth Stabro: I think we should respect the name he currently goes by ... but P. Diddy is certainly better for views! No Swan So Fine (talk) 19:05, 30 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

No Swan So Fine sounds good! Nihil obstat. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 04:38, 4 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Darth Stabro and No Swan So Fine: I have MOS:EGG concerns regarding the hook, in that no-one will know where the bolded link goes. Any way to rephrase? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

ALT1 ... that during one of his Diddy parties, Sean Combs promised not to spill champagne on the Declaration of Independence?

Not sure if the hook needs to specify "an original copy of", and I have no opinion if the hook should say "P Diddy" or not, though depending on how he was called at the time, maybe that might be a point of discussion? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:47, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I like how that sounds.~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 00:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Narutolovehinata5: I think "an original copy of" would be overkill as the meaning is clear without it. I'm going to suggest ALT2: ... that during one of his Diddy parties, P. Diddy promised not to spill champagne on the Declaration of Independence?; a promoter can take their pick.--Laun chba ller 23:23, 15 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Darth Stabro: Are ALT1 and ALT2 approved now? Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:20, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, fine with either. ~Darth Stabro^{Talk • Contribs} 01:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is a wrong encyclopedic entry. It should be renamed..

White parties have been going on in the elite circles well before Sean Combs decided to start throwing them. It seems inappropriate to give him credit for the entire concept which has dated back centuries! 2603:8001:7106:C515:7811:9D52:2B0E:FC2C (talk) 23:48, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 4 November 2024

It has been proposed in this section that Diddy parties be renamed and moved to Diddy Parties.

A bot will list this discussion on the requested moves current discussions subpage within an hour of this tag being placed. The discussion may be closed 7 days after being opened, if consensus has been reached (see the closing instructions). Please base arguments on article title policy, and keep discussion succinct and civil.

Please use {{subst:requested move}}. Do not use {{requested move/dated}} directly.

Links: current log • target log • direct move

White Party (Sean Combs) → Diddy Parties – As stated in the article, Diddy Parties is more commonly referred to with regards to White parties by Sean Combs (Diddy). Proposing move per WP:CONCISE, WP:COMMONNAME, WP:PRECISE, and WP:NATDIS. Other alternatives like Diddy Party, White Party (Diddy), etc. are not off the table. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 18:57, 4 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BD2412 T 18:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Reading Beans, Duke of Rivia 22:54, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Hip hop, WikiProject Sociology, WikiProject Culture, and WikiProject New York (state) have been notified of this discussion. 𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 21:14, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. To my eye, "Diddy parties" is a colloquialism[] where far more encyclopedic alternatives are obvious, which WP:NPOVNAME advises us to avoid. I also disagree with the claim that the proposed title is more precise—"White Party (Sean Combs)" unambiguously refers to a specific series of parties that Combs held, whereas "Diddy parties" could refer to any number of parties he might have thrown. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 22:00, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree that the name "Diddy parties" has a POV, and that it is not encyclopedic. Thanks! Feeglgeef (talk) 16:59, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NPOVNAME also says that "Article titles and redirects should anticipate what readers will type as a first guess and balance that with what readers expect to be taken to." Which is the case for most people with P. Diddy's freak-offs. Feeglgeef (talk) 17:01, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As you've quoted, the policy specifies "article titles and redirects." I'd be in favor of "Diddy parties" existing as a redirect to this article—I certainly don't dispute that the term is in widespread use—but I think readers will be best served if the title of the destination article is precise about what it describes. ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:56, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Readers will be too confused trying to figure out why they are reading about "White Parties" instead of "Diddy Parties" Feeglgeef (talk) 17:26, 27 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Weak support - White Parties (Diddy) or something like that Diddy's white parties solely because I can't see how the present name could be the WP:COMMONNAME. I'm not opposed to Diddy parties but I think there are NPOV and BLP concerns there that should be more thoroughly discussed. estar8806 (talk) ★ 22:18, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
WP:SENTENCECASE please. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 02:01, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment White party and White parties currently redirect to Circuit party. Is that a justified primary topic? If not, we can consider a move to the undisambiguated title. 162 etc. (talk) 21:54, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it is justified, they have a long history in African-American culture [1]. We should really work to expand the circuit party article and reclaim the term. No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Per Circuit party, these events were typically attended by white gay men. The article does not mention African-Americans, nor does it mention the attendees wearing white clothing. This citation from The Guardian appears to refer to a different type of white party. 162 etc. (talk) 21:46, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Guardian article specifically references "Black communities in the US" and Black culture. No Swan So Fine (talk) 14:09, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
That's correct. I'm referring to the Circuit party article, the current primary topic, which makes no mention of either. 162 etc. (talk) 17:19, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment White Party, a minor political party is Azerbaijan, is unlikely to be the primary topic for the capitalized title. 162 etc. (talk) 21:57, 5 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
White Party was formerly about circuit parties before it was redirected to Circuit party. No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note the WP:DIFFCAPS. This article is unrelated to circuit parties. 162 etc. (talk) 21:41, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have history split the prior article about circuit parties to White Party (LGBT), moved the article on the Azerbaijan party to White Party (Azerbaijan) and created a disambiguation page at White party with White Party redirecting there. Despite all of that I don't have an opinion on this move request. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 20:20, 20 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sean Combs' parties Searching, I see they are referred to by various "names" and sometimes as just party/parties held by Combs/Diddy. Our article for him is titled "Sean Combs". White is just a theme, so no need to cap white party in prose or freak off either. While W|white party is a redirect to circuit party, that article does not mention white party. When we work out what title to use here, we probably need to tidy up a couple of things. Cinderella157 (talk) 09:29, 6 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This article refers to a specific set of parties, clearly defined and described in the references. No Swan So Fine (talk) 21:10, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose as per ModernDayTrilobite, this article refers to a specific series of parties that occurred from 1997 to 2009. When I created the article I considered other titles such as Sean Comb's White Parties (sounds too commercial) and White Parties of Sean Combs (too specific?) The 'freak off' parties referred to in the indictments [2] are a different set of events. No Swan So Fine (talk) 14:09, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: Relisting for clearer consensus. BD2412 T 18:44, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per COMMONNAME and NATURAL.--Ortizesp (talk) 19:16, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I have heard many people talk about Diddy Parties but no one about "White Parties" CavsFan45 (talk) 01:50, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The article is about a specific series of parties, the term is well established in the references. No Swan So Fine (talk) 14:57, 14 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think he is talking about wp:PLURAL. Web-julio (talk) 07:20, 16 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Sean Combs white parties would probably work. This article is about a specific series of white-themed parties organized by Combs, not every Combs party. It is not really necessary to use a possessive here ("Sean Combs's white parties"), so be more WP:CONCISE. And "White parties (Sean Combs)" is against our disambiguation practices (because these parties are not a type of "Sean Combs", and "Sean Combs" is not a narrowing characteristic of the events themselves). "Diddy parties" could also work if it's common enough in the source material, but we have to face the fact that this article title is necessary at WP:NDESC case, where WP is using a descriptive lable, as these parties have no proper or "official" name, nor a clearly established WP:COMMONNAME in independent sources. An argument could be made to be more concise yet by using a singular (regardless what clarifier of "party" is applied), but this seems like a naturally, intrinsically plural subject. That is, it's the series of parties as a "unit" of sorts, over a time span, that is the subject; the article isn't really about a type or sort of party, per se.
Use lower-case regardless: Zero of the appellations given to these parties constitute proper names, and none of them are consistently capitalized in sources. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 01:31, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment by nom : A highlighted concern of this move request is that this article only focuses on a specific set of white parties by Combs. This begs the question of whether the scope of the article should be expanded to included “freak-off” parties referred to in the indictments as well. Of course, this topic may take place in a separate discussion, but I think this should be noted now.

𝚈𝚘𝚟𝚝 (𝚝𝚊𝚕𝚔𝚟𝚝) 03:25, 21 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support "Diddy party", is the WP:COMMONNAME. "Diddy parties" is also fine. I've heard "Diddy part(y/ies)" and "Freak offs" hundreds of times, but not once "White Party" before reading this article. Feeglgeef (talk) 16:57, 25 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]