Talk:Dubai Fencing Club

This article was previously nominated for deletion. The result of the discussion was keep.

Notability

In general, very few individual fencing clubs are notable enough for a WP article. An exception in the United States is, arguably, Fencers Club in New York City. Other exceptions in other countries may apply, as well -- particularly in countries that have historically been fencing powerhouses, such as France, Italy, and Hungary. Twisted86 06:15, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My counters to this would be 1)Wikipedia Is Not Paper. Is there a pressing reason to delete? Would Wikepedia be a better place without it? 2) Is it that few other fencing clubs are notable enough to have WP articles, or is it that few have had articles written about them? Agreed DFC stands out as being a very minor club, yet one of the few with an article, however if there were a couple of dozen other articles written this would be less of an issue. Doesn't this mean that the context is lacking, not the article has undue prominence? 3) DFC has a very important developmental role for Fencing in the UAE. I should, however, state that I am the original author and a former DFC memeber and club captain with a corresponding lack of neutrality. Epeeist smudge 10:23, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

1) It is bordering on advertising. See WP:NOT.

2) Both. There need to be more articles written about truly notable fencing clubs, such as Oregon Fencing Alliance and Halberstadt on the West Coast of the U.S. There are certainly any number of highly notable clubs in Hungary, France, and Germany, such as Emil Beck's club.

Thanks for writing the DFC article. But I just don't think it flies. Twisted86 05:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

[1] BBC World segement on DFC in line with notablity policy.

As a current member of the club I can vouch that a significant number of people visiting the club have heard about the club from the web, including Wikipedia. Dubai has a large transient population of tourists and expatriates who stay from a week to several years. This mix of different fencers keep the small club full of varied abilities and fencing styles, from Dmitry Svatkovsky the Olympic Gold Medalist of Modern Pentathlon Sydney 2000 passing through Dubai on holiday, to several national champions on contract work in Dubai.

The DFC has also been instrumental in helping set up the fledgling UAE Fencing Federation http://www.uaefencing.org.ae/, and providing training to the national team. The first U.A.E Fencing Championships were held, with the winner coming from the DFC. It is rare and notable to have a club with such a varied composition and influence in the early stages of a national Federation. 80.227.144.34 11:07, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, using the same logic, a significant number of the people both visiting and joining my fencing club heard about it from the web, too, but that doesn't make it notable. See WP:Notability.

Likewise, my club has been instrumental in setting up the fledgling American Fencing League, as well as numerous other minor firsts. My club has been mentioned in the largest newspaper in the state (and the second largest in the Pacific Northwest -- which does not put it on the same level as BBC World, admittedly), but none of that makes us notable, either.

Currently, the DFC article features a large logo, three facts, several opinions, and no outside references. It reads like an advertisement. It is also an orphaned article. Not good indicators. See WP:NOT.

As the head of a small fencing club, I commend DFC for working to establish fencing in the UAE. It is a lot of work, I know. I wish you the best of luck. But Wikipedia does not exist to help your club grow. That's why DFC has a web site.

If this club is notable, show it by editing the article to reflect its notability. Better yet, have someone who is not affiliated with DFC edit the article. I have nominated this article for deletion. Twisted86 05:29, 25 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I refer you back to WP:NOT as WP is not paper! WP is full of dross far more trivial than DFC, which is part of WP's appeal! My vison of WP would to have every organisation of this type having an article, although admittedly the present structure would make that somewhat of a disaster. Subjective judgements on the relative importance of articles seems to me no in the spirit of the project. Please note that I stated my affiliation with the club for the very reason that I recognise it limits my neutrality on the subject and neccesarily may weaken my arguments. I'm am a commited believer in WP as well as DFC and I hope you will recognise no rancor in my arguments.

As to a non-DFC affiliate editing the article....... nobody needs my permission to edit. Epeeist smudge 19:45, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, no rancor is seen in your arguments, and hopefully none in mine. I appreciate your honesty in clearly stating your affiliation with DFC. Another indicator of notability is when someone not directly affiliated with organization in question edits or writes the article. That's what I meant -- I did not mean to imply that I thought you were asserting "ownership" or anything like that.

I understand perfectly that WP does not have the constraints of paper. However, I respectfully disagree with the idea of having every fencing club on the planet listed in WP — that's what national organization web sites are for. Notability, like it or not, is part of the first pillar of WP ("WP is not an indiscriminate collection of information."). I would also suggest that you examine WP:AFDP.

Again, I wish nothing but the best for DFC. The issue is not that there is anything wrong with DFC. The isssue is simply one of notability. Perhaps a better article would be one about the national governing body for fencing in the UAE. Such an article could include reference to DFC and the role it has played. Twisted86 21:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Stub status

Thanks to Kappa and Shell Kinney for their editing. Thanks to everyone who participated in the AfD discussion. I did some copyediting to bring it more in line with WP:MOS.

Now this article needs some more content. What notable fencers has DFC produced? What impact has it had on fencing in the UAE and the surrounding region? How is it connected with the national governing body for fencing in the UAE? Twisted86 18:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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