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Talk:Christian Cage/GA1

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GA Review

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Reviewer: Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 21:11, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Review forthcoming. I will be reviewing this article in conjunction with Adam Copeland, for fairly obvious reasons. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 21:11, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, sounds good. I'll be waiting, as will ThinkBlue.--WillC 23:44, 7 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The article is generally good. It suffers from the fixable problem of very clearly being written by multiple people who weren't necessarily working in concert. This is seen in repeated wikilinks to the same thing, and repeated instances of specifying someone's real name or ring name given the other. Specific examples to follow shortly. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 02:27, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, well mainly it was Blue and I. She wrote the lead and from Career down to his departure from WWE. I wrote the rest. Since then, there has been alot of ip edits.--WillC 02:44, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
GA review (see here for criteria)
  1. Is it reasonably well written?
    A. Prose quality:
    • Generally speaking, I think the distinction between writing about Mr. Reso and writing about the character(s) he plays/has played on television is okay. However, it's quite odd in the lead - Reso and Edge, however, parted ways in 2001 Huh? Mr. Reso and Edge don't exactly exist in the same world. I believe Reso and Copeland have always been friends, so wasn't it Christian and Edge that parted ways? Or perhaps better yet, Reso and Copeland's characters ended their on-screen partnership.
      • Always been a problem with wrestler bios. I have been trying to find a way that the issue is no longer a problem. Been wanting to eliminate the character aspect all together, but it is hard. Simple fix done.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Reso has won the World Tag Team Championship nine times (seven times with Edge, one time with Lance Storm, and one time with Chris Jericho) Might be best to just not enumerate the partners here; it's given in the bulleted list at the end of the article, and it would be harder to work around the real name/ring name mix here.
    • The Personal life section reads like a Quentin Tarantino movie. He was born, then he met Copeland, but before he met Copeland he lived in this city where he was raised, then he and Copeland are college roommates (which puts an age on when he met Copeland - the initial mention doesn't), then he's a child again, then he gets married, then he's childhood friends with another wrestler.
    • Keith Assoun "Zakk Wyld" This can be a little clearer, I think. Is the real name of a wrestler who's apparently not WP:NOTABLE important to mention at all?
    • Reso and Copeland faced off in an untelevised tryout match which Copeland was booked to win since he was the one the WWF was interested in Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which we must not put.
    • Dory Funk, Jr.’s "Funkin' Conservatory" But earlier - Reso signed with the WWF in August 1998, after training in the company's wrestling training camp, The Funking Conservatory. "Funkin' Conservatory" or "The Funking Conservatory?"
    • Following their victory, Christian and Edge portrayed themselves as villains, shifting their in-ring personas from borderline goth to a comedic pair of "cool dudes" [...] the "five second pose", where they performed a pose in the ring for five seconds "for the benefit of those with flash photography" to mock, insult, or otherwise amuse the fans. Why are cool dudes who amuse the fans "villains?" Without identifying that "five second pose" and "for the benefit of those with flash photography" were their catchphrases at the time it looks awfully goofy in the middle of the sentence in quotes like that.
      • They are direct quotes. I don't know how they pulled it off, but they made crowd favoites hated two seconds later. Probably because they cheated alot. Plus they are were arrogant cool dudes, etc. Hard to explain, I haven't watched 2000 WWF in years. Something Blue will probably have to address since she wrote this section.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • the duo successfully defended the tag team titles Title or titles? It's singular in all other instances.
    • resulting in the two feuding for Edge's WWF Intercontinental Championship for several months, with the title changing hands several times. Is two several?
    • WWE Tag Team Championship, formerly the WWF Tag Team Championship, [...] World Tag Team Championship (renamed WWE Tag Team Championship) Two different ways of saying the same thing in the course of one paragraph. Suggest standardizing it a little.
      • Yeah, during the course of 2002, WWE renamed the title twice. The first was because they were court ordered to rename, they chose WWE. Then they created the WWE Tag Team Championship, so prior they renamed the Raw Tag Title the World Tag Team Championship. In this case, no change should be done; to remain accurate is of course the reason.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • No, you misunderstood. What I meant is you used different punctuation to refer to two instances of the same event (the title being renamed).
    • He used his new found charisma to win a nine man over-the-top-rope battle royal He used his charisma to win a match?
    • for the vacant WWF Intercontinental Championship, which had been renamed the "WWE Intercontinental Championship" after the WWF was forced to rename itself "World Wrestling Entertainment". A phrase like this would be better used the first time a title changes from WWF to WWE in prose.
      • The first thing I thought of when I read it.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Actually, I now think it's possibly problematic to say that this match was for the "WWF Intercontinental Championship" at all. I think it should either say that the match was for the "WWE Intercontinental Championship (previously known as the WWF Intercontinental Championship)" or just "for the WWE Intercontinental Championship."
    • He wrestled with The Hurricane as part of a tag team called "The Heroes", for one night, then faced The Hurricane the following week in a "battle of the heroes". After this, the heroes aspect of the ring persona was dropped Possible confusion with use of the word "hero" elsewhere to denote a good guy wrestling character.
      • No, you misunderstand. Probably should've been mentioned, but The Hurricane had a superhero character at the time. He thought he could fly, etc (in storyline that is).--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • After this, the heroes aspect of the ring persona was dropped – though Christian continued to go by the nickname of "Captain Charisma". Endash seems out of place here. A plain old comma would work just fine.
    • Despite being a villain, he acquired a fanbase, who he refers to as his "Peeps" Mixed tense.
    • claiming he was a better rapper than Cena and denouncing him as "poser" Is this spelled correctly? Poseur
    • Christian was noticeably cheered during these segments and was thought to be finally becoming a main eventer Who thought this?
    • It doesn't seem that PPV is ever actually defined.
    • The first (on March 25) [...] Mitchell and Shelley (who was taping the segment with a camcorder like the previous video package) More fancy punctuation. Again I think a comma would be better here.
    • Jarrett becomes Jarret a few times.
    • Cage began a feud with his real-life friend Terry Gerin, who wrestles under the ring name "Rhino". This is long since specified well above, or at least it should be. And to say that "Cage" began a feud with "Terry Gerin" is, again, problematic.
      • Well I wrote it like that to be clear since Rhino is mentioned before with different spellings and ring names: Rhino Richards, Rhyno, etc. Wanted to show this is the same guy who was his friend. I'll rewrite it to give the same info but in different form.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Wouldn't pass as brilliant prose for a FAC, but it works for me.
    • Cage's old ally Tyson Tomko (now going by Tomko), when Cage was apart of the World Wrestling Entertainment promotion Clunky. What's the problem with just saying when he was with WWE?
    • Cage was set to defend the NWA Championship against Sting at Sacrifice, however, Angle was added to the match—making it a three way match—on the May 3, 2007 episode of Impact!. Again the endashes seem a bit much. I strongly dislike the exclamation point followed by a period, but apparently that's what Wikipedia wants, in checking other usages.
    • Angle was the victor of said contest by making Sting submit, who had technically just pinned Cage Huh? And how does that wash with There, Joe defeated Cage to end his 23 month long undefeated streak by not being pinned nor made to submit later on?
      • Sting submited before Cage was pinned. Sting held Cage's shoulders down while Angle was holding Sting's ankle in an ankle lock. Sting was laying on top of Cage. He was never pinned, he was just in a pin attempt. Was booked to be like that so they could set up the KOTM and get rid of the NWA Title at the sametime. Had a pin and a submit at the sametime. Hard to explain, I'll get you a video if you wish? TNA's Youtube account keeps alot of pasted videos, including a highlight of the finish.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • This needs to be explained a lot better in the article, and if there's some special significance to "technically" to put it in quotes, that needs to be clear (and sourced). If the video is free (what, if any, license does TNA put on their web content?), that might be a good idea. Goodness knows articles on TV shows have used the show itself to reference them.
          • See here, the ref's hand came down as Sting submitted to Angle. Any ideas on how to rewrite?--WillC 09:14, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • This still needs to be revised to be clearer. Is this a Dusty finish? If so, that might help the explanation. If not, more explicitly describe what happened (that the ref's hand came down as Sting submitted to Angle, meaning that Cage was never pinned). Right now, to say that Sting "technically" pinned Cage, with those quotes around technically, looks strange and doesn't seem to mean anything.
    • Styles and Tomko helped Angle retain the TNA World Title Surely this isn't the championship's true name, so why is it capitalized?
      • Title goes by TNA World Championship, TNA Championship, TNA Title, TNA World Title, TNA World Heavyweight Championship, TNA World Heavyweight Title, TNA Heavyweight Championship, TNA Heavyweight Title, etc. Official name is the TNA World Heavyweight Championship though.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • He once again was defeated by Angle as this time Tomko interfeared and cost Cage the match. sp
    • Afterwards, Cage and Rhino began competition as a regular tag team, with the pair being involved in The Deuce's Wild Tag Team Tournament for the vacant TNA World Tag Team Championship on May 11, 2008 at TNA's Sacrifice PPV event, they however failed to win the tournament. Run-on sentence. Also, the link to "The Deuce's Wild Tag Team Tournament" does not work. It seems the link is meant to point to List of Total Nonstop Action Wrestling tournaments#Deuces Wild Tournament.
    • Cage and Rhino went on to team with Styles, who had made a means with Cage and Rhino Made a means? Made amends? Does "made a means" actually fit? I'm not familiar with that phrase.
    • Three instances of Three way dance or 3 way dance. Unless this is an official name, it seems quite informal.
      • Spelled either way. Some instances it is 3 way, others it is three way. I'll change them to all be consistent, unless the name listed was the official match name.--WillC 09:14, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • In March 2006, Reso competed two times in the United Kingdom for the One Pro Wrestling (1PW) promotion. His first appearance was on March 4, 2006 at their All or Nothing: Night 1 event, where he defeated Rhino.[112] His second appearance was at 1PW's Know Your Enemy: Night 1 event on May 26, 2006, defeating Steve Corino.[112] At Know Your Enermy: Night 2 event on May 27, 2006, Reso fought against the champion, Abyss, and Corino for the 1PW World Heavyweight Championship in a three way dance, but failed to win as Corino gained the fall and the title.[112] A couple of points - did Reso wrestle as "Christian" or "Christian Cage" or some other character? To say that "Reso" fought "Abyss" is...problematic, I believe I've made that point. Secondly, the topic sentence of this paragraph has him competing two times for 1PW, and then three matches on three dates are described.
    • which Reso and Cabana won.
    • Return to World Wrestling Entertainment (2009-present) I'd recommend something along the lines of "Second stint with World Wrestling Entertainment." If he spends ten years with the promotion, the notion of his "return" will seem quaint, but similarly if he has a career like Dustin Rhodes. His return is a short-term event, one that has likely already passed since we're almost done with 2009. And for all the places I'm saying that endashes seem out of place, I'm pretty one is called for in "2009–present"
      • Needs to be rewritten anyway. A discussion was done where it was decided headers shouldn't be more than 4 to 5 words long, excluding dates. You also have a point. Your's will work.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • then–ECW Champion Jack Swagger [...] 15-man battle royal I'm not sure if the endash is right here, but these seem like the same usage.
      • Usually how it is done. Open to changing though, just if something is done for a while, doesn't mean it is correct.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • I was perhaps unclear – 'then ECW Champion' uses an endash, while '15 man battle royal' uses a hyphen. Syntactically, these seem to be the same usage, so I think it should probably be one or the other.
    • his first world heavyweight championship in the WWE Sort of like titles/title, "WWE" is not preceded by the definite article in its other instances. And it would seem correct to omit it; "the" World Wrestling Federation, sure, but "the" World Wrestling Entertainment?
    B. MOS compliance:
  2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
    A. References to sources: Structure's fine, obviously the scope is good, and the checklinks tool shows no redflags, which is impressive. Usually there's at least one or two.
    B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
    • though he would later lose the title to Diamond Dallas Page in January 2002. After this, he became known for throwing tantrums in the ring when he was unable to gain a pinfall. As part of a storyline, in which Christian endured a series of losses, he announced that he was quiting the WWF. Page, however, persuaded Christian not to quit and adopted him as his protegé. Christian betrayed Page and faced off against him for the European championship at the WrestleMania X8 PPV event on March 17, 2002, in which Page defeated him. During the same event, Christian defeated Mighty Molly to win the WWF Hardcore Championship, but lost the title to Maven later on in the night. Is this all covered by reference #30?
    • In April 2005, Christian participated in the first-ever Money in the Bank ladder match at the WrestleMania 21 PPV event on April 3, 2005. Following this, Christian, who had an encounter with SmackDown! superstar John Cena at the start of the year, began commenting on Cena, claiming he was a better rapper than Cena and denouncing him as "poser". Christian was noticeably cheered during these segments and was thought to be finally becoming a main eventer. Is this all covered by reference #7? Still need to work out "was thought to be" but that's listed above.
    • Christian had previously commented that he hoped to be drafted to SmackDown! because the show needed a Canadian. He further went onto say how he was on the main event of both Raw and SmackDown! in the same week, and he was soon given his own interview segment on SmackDown! called The Peep Show. Is this all covered by reference #34?
    • Despite his quitting, Christian appeared on Raw and at the Taboo Tuesday PPV event on November 1, 2005, fulfilling his obligations to the company, as he was one of five SmackDown! wrestlers eligible to be voted Edge and Chris Masters' opponents by the fans. In August 2006, WWE challenged Reso's attempts to trademark the name "Captain Charisma", saying that it would cause confusion in the marketplace because the persona was created while Reso was under contract to WWE. WWE argued that anything that Reso called himself in WWE belongs to WWE. Citation needed.
    • Every statistic needs citation. The Pro Wrestling Illustrated section under "Championships and accomplishments" lacks any.
      • Dear God, I knew this would come up. I've searched and search and search for a ref or even something telling me which issue it was that gave the awards, and still nothing. I found a german ref that showed they won it, but nothing reliable. Removing it will just cause ips and other editors readd it without giving a reliable source. The previous ref in the article copied it from here, so we can't use that.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • I went ahead and removed the PWI awards.--WillC 09:14, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • While that resolves the concern, is it really unknown and unknowable in which issue of the magazine the awards were given? It would presumably be the December or January editions at the end of the relevant year or start of the next one. Surely they can be cited.
    C. No original research:
  3. Is it broad in its coverage?
    A. Major aspects:
    B. Focused:
    • Christian and Edge were defeated by The Brothers of Destruction (Kane and The Undertaker) on the April 19, 2001 episode of WWF SmackDown!, one of the promotion's several television programs. Any particular significance to this?
  4. Is it neutral?
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. Is it stable?
    No edit wars, etc:
  6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
    A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales: Images are all free use, though several lack description pages. No problem for me, but if you're looking down to a FAC, you'll want to take care of that.
    B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions and alternative text:
    • I don't much like any of the captions (in/out of universe mix, some repetition, don't draw to the text all that well), and only the infobox image has alt text. Alt text isn't technically required for GA, so I can't fail the article if it's not added, but I encourage you to give it a shot.
  7. Overall:
    Pass or Fail:

It seems like I listed an awful lot. Sorry if I came across as discouraging, the article really is generally pretty good, and I think it'll get there. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 04:11, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

First try, it is understandable. Problems occurr in everything.--WillC 11:37, 9 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Good progress. We'll get there. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 01:56, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]
No doubt.--WillC 21:43, 11 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

While I encourage further work in improvement of the article, I am willing to Pass it right now. Nosleep (Talk · Contribs) 05:02, 12 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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