Talk:Rolf Harris

Jim'll Fix It in filmography?

This is missing from the filmography section. Harris made a few appearances on his pervy mate's show. 209.93.85.21 (talk) 13:19, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

According to IMDb, Harris appeared in at least one episode on 29 May 1976.[1] There would need to be better sourcing, and Wikipedia is not IMDb so it doesn't list everything that a person ever did unless there is some sort of notability.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 13:32, 19 October 2023 (UTC)

Notability applies to article creation, not article content. If reliably sourced and not contrary to any other policy, it could be included. Kerry (talk) 23:59, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

I did manage to find a video on YouTube where Rolf Harris appears on Jim'll Fix It in 1993. Jim fixes it for a grandfather to play a didgeridoo with Harris. But there is a need for secondary sourcing to make it worth mentioning. It's obvious that some people would only want to mention it because of the "He's a paedo" angle that it creates.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 07:45, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

Factual errors in the lede

A couple of factual errors in the lede:

"He was convicted in England in 2014 of the sexual assault of four underage girls"

Only some of the victims were underage. It is unclear how many, as it's hard to work out whether the Cambridge assault took place in 1975 as the victim alleged (aged 14), or three years later when the prosecution proved he was in Cambridge (when she would have been ~17)

"In July 2014, Harris, aged 84, was sentenced to five years and nine months in prison after being convicted on twelve counts of indecent assault on four female victims, who were between the ages of 13 and 19 at the time that the offences took place, during the 1970s and 1980s."

This is a mess. It appears that info relating to the youngest 'victim' has been semi-removed from this sentence following the overturning of that conviction, in terms of the ages of the victims and the dates of the assaults; but not removed from the count of assaults or the number of victims.

If she's being removed it needs to say

"eleven counts of indecent assault on three female victims, who were between the ages of 13 and 19 at the time that the offences took place, during the 1970s and 1980s."

If she's being kept in it needs to say

"twelve counts of indecent assault on four female victims, who were between the ages of 8 and 19 at the time that the offences took place, during the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s." 2A00:23C6:AE98:C701:74F3:C599:F0B2:BF52 (talk) 08:24, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

Yes, it's unclear that all of the victims were under 16 at the time that the offences took place. "Underage" is vague, although these were still serious sexual offences. The conviction involving an eight year old girl in Portsmouth was subsequently overturned due to the poor evidence supporting it.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 10:04, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

"Harris, aged 84"

Why is Harris' age at the time of his conviction included in the lede? 209.93.85.21 (talk) 14:26, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

It's worth noting this, because Harris was very old at the time that he was sent to prison. Had it not been for Operation Yewtree, or if Harris had died in his seventies, he would never have faced trial.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:24, 8 November 2023 (UTC)

Opening sentence flawed

Someone reading the MOS:BIOFIRSTSENTENCE would gain the impression that, at the end of his career, Rolf Harris degenerated into a dirty old man (cue stereo type). Only by reading past that and deep into other paragraphs does it start to become apparent that this conduct was going on through out his career. This needs to be clear.

Current news articles are blunt, opens with the sentence "convicted paedophile and disgraced entertainer Rolf Harris" and has "disgraced entertainer Rolf Harris". Both of these cite yet another alleged sexual assault from 1982 where Rolf Harris attended a kids camp as an entertainer . @Rodericksilly pointed to a BBC article pointing to the oldest event in 1968. That is a very long history of behaviour.

Hence my edit to reduce MOS:BIOFIRSTSENTENCE to simply "Rolf Harris was a convicted paedophile and disgraced entertainer".

Cagneya (talk) 14:11, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

You say "this conduct was going on through out his career"? But where is the evidence for that? His first convictions were for events in the 1980s? Also not sure why any article should be influenced by "current news articles" - isn't that just popular WP:RECENTISM? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 14:19, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

It's clear by now that some people are never going to be happy unless the opening sentence says "he was chiefly notable for being a paedo" or something along those lines. Various discussions have rejected this, because it was his career as an entertainer that made the sex offence convictions notable, not the other way round. This is how a WP:LEAD is written, it is not a news article.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 15:36, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm also not sure why folks assume that readers are reluctant, or even incapable of reading past the first sentence. This is meant to be an encyclopaedia, not just a random post on Twitter? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:42, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank goodness it's not just me feeling this way. I reverted the edits (from Cagneya this morning because it was clearly contrary to the current consensus; i'm glad that i am not alone in both seeing that consensus and upholding it. Happy days, ~ Lindsay^Hello 18:49, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

References