Talk:RuPaul's Drag Race season 10

Alphabetizing of The Vixen

We've bounced this back and forth enough to make a talk page discussion worth it. In my opinion, the "The" is part of her Drag name, and as such it should be alphabetized under Th, not V.Naraht (talk) 21:41, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Well, that might be your opinion, but VH1 lists Vanessa before The Vixen so we should defer to that. See, e.g., the MTQ playlist [1] or the livestreamed interview with Sasha. It'll be a moot point in any event since they're only in alphabetical order until we know what place they finish on the season. Umimmak (talk) 21:58, 1 March 2018 (UTC)

Referencing

Is "backyardbracket.com" a reliable source for the contestants' names? Especially since the other source writes: (Tony asked to be identified by his first name only, citing concerns for his personal safety.) we should be particularly careful about sources that might just copy names from unreliable sources like wikia.

Also the prose plot summary for episode one went from using the episode itself as a source [2] to using the AV Club as a source [3] due to a deletion of a citation and an addition of a refname. Seeing as the summary was not originally using this source as a reference, I just wanted to make sure this was an intentional change and that the summary should be written just based on the AV Club review. If we do, can I suggest a better name than "episode1" since that is unclear that refers specifically to the AV Club review of episode one (I assume the article will incorporate reviews from other sources)? Even "avc_ep01" or something like that. Or we add back the reference to the episode itself as originally written.

Umimmak (talk) 10:32, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the website you mentioned but I removed the citing of the episode as it went against what was agrees over on the consensus on series talk page, which is we can use the episode as a reliable primary source for placing if it is explicitly stating, if not it should be a reliable secondary source. Hope that clears it up. Brocicle (talk) 10:58, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Hope that clears it up. No not completely. That explained why you removed it as a ref for the Contestant Progress table but not why you removed it as a reference for the summary down in Episodes, where it had been used as a reference for like, who won the mini challenge, who won the main challenge, who won the lip sync, etc. I suspect it was unintentional and you just didn't realize the episode itself had multiple footnotes associated with it? Umimmak (talk) 11:02, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes that was unintentional, I didn't realise it was being used for the table as well. I just thought it was contestant progress table Brocicle (talk) 11:05, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

So should it be added back? Or should it now be referenced as if it had been written using the AV club as a source? I suppose the AV club (or some other ref) is needed for the statement about Yuhua being in the top for the week, but should the rest cite the episode itself? A variety of reviews from WP:RSs -- presumably we don't want our summary to be based entirely on one arbitrarily chosen one? Or are uncited statements implicitly understood to have the episode itself as a primary source? Umimmak (talk) 11:14, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

I'm not sure what the norm is for reality shows compared to fictional shows. If its the same I'm sure it'll be fine without the referencing, if not it probably should be added back. Brocicle (talk) 11:30, 23 March 2018 (UTC)

Team wins for table

For ep 2, it is inaccurate to say everyone on The Vixen's team The contestant received positive critiques but was ultimately declared as "safe." It is not the case that they all got specific critiques like the top 3 in a non-team episode. I don't know the best way to fix this, but the wording is misleading right now and says more contestants got specific critiques than they really did. Umimmak (talk) 08:39, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Its the same for all other seasons as well with group challenges. I agree we need a new colour and something along the lines of '""the contestant was part of the winning team but did not receive judges critiques" or something like that. Brocicle (talk) 10:54, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Agreed there needs to be a "Team High" or "Team Win" not really sure what to do with the losing/bottom team. On PharmaRusical Ru said the losing team was in the bottom and all "up for elimination" however at the same time by the definition of "High" (The contestant received positive critiques but was ultimately declared as "safe.") Asia O'Hara and Dusty Ray Bottoms should have a "high" on the chart

I don’t think it’s a problem, it’s been the same with all the other seasons. Their team won the challenge so that automatically makes them “HIGH,” of course with Vixen winning individually. Them winning is the same as “good critiques,” because if they weren’t good they wouldn’t have won. It’s just the same if it was judge on a partner basis, I don’t see a problem with it, seeing as how it’s work jut fine over the past nine seasons as well as with the past three All Stars seasons it’s safe to leave as is. Dallasansel (talk) 13:57, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Worst case we could change wording to “The contestant received good critiques or was on a winning team, but was ultimately declared ‘safe.’” Dallasansel (talk) 13:59, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

But then how would you distinguish a team win "high" from a solo high? They would be the same colour which can lead to confusion. The logical thing to do would be to change the Highs on the winning team to safe with a different colour and box caption, because they did not receive critiques. Brocicle (talk) 16:12, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

Here's an example because I'm even getting confused reading what I wrote.

Contestant	1	2
Aquaria	SAFE	SAFE
Asia O'Hara	SAFE	SAFE
Blair St. Clair	HIGH	SAFE
Dusty Ray Bottoms	LOW	SAFE
Eureka	SAFE	BTM2
Kameron Michaels	SAFE	SAFE
Mayhem Miller	WIN	SAFE
Miz Cracker	HIGH	SAFE
Monét X Change	SAFE	SAFE
Monique Heart	SAFE	LOW
The Vixen	SAFE	WIN
Yuhua Hamasaki	HIGH	SAFE
Kalorie Karbdashian Williams	BTM2	ELIM
Vanessa Vanjie Mateo	ELIM

  The contestant won the challenge.

  The contestant was part of the winning team but did not receive judges critics.

  The contestant received positive critiques but was ultimately declared as "safe."

  The contestant received judges critiques and was ultimately chosen to be safe.

  The contestant received negative critiques but was ultimately declared as "safe."

  The contestant was in the bottom two.

  The contestant was eliminated.

References

Brocicle (talk) 16:18, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

I am very adamant on leaving it as is, it looks more appealing as well makes more sense than the example you've provided. Technically, the winning team did receive "critiques." When the judges said that Team Vixen was better and won over Team Asia, that automatically means everyone on the team received positive "critiques." In a way they did received "critiques," just as a whole rather than individually. "HIGH" means the contestant almost won the challenge, and in this case everyone on Team Vixen was in the running to win individually. As I said this hasn't been a problem before, so why make it one now? Also, if a reader is curious about the specifics of everyone's placement all they have to do is scroll down and see each episodes short summary. Dallasansel (talk) 22:44, 30 March 2018 (UTC)

You can be as adamant as you want but someone raised their concern and if other editors agree to change it you'll just have to rrun with the consensus. Brocicle (talk) 08:33, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes absolutely, I am just expressing my opinion and concerns on why I think we should leave it as is. Dallasansel (talk) 22:10, 31 March 2018 (UTC)

Why is the legend in terms of "receiving positive critiques" anyway? If it was just "was in the top for the week" or something like that it would encompass being in the winning tea, even if they didn't get individual critiques. Or could we add a "...or was in the winning team"? Umimmak (talk) 06:29, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

Receiving positive critiques places them as high. I think we should have a separate colour for being on the winning team but not receiving critiques because some group challenges have a team winning but receiving individual critiques (eg. Season 2's disco commercial challenge) Brocicle (talk) 06:35, 6 April 2018 (UTC)

I think it would be a good idea to establish a different template for group challenges like this, as it can be misleading as the note isn't accurate. However, we should just have the note say "the contestant was part of the winning team and was ultimately safe" instead. MSMRHurricane (talk) 21:06, 14 April 2018 (UTC)

I still disagree for the reasons I have stated above. Dallasansel (talk) 01:59, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Raymond Braun doesn't have a wikipedia page.

Do you think that a wikipedia page could be created for Raymond Braun based on

• https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/251531
• https://www.ft.com/content/36b0fcc8-91f7-11e6-a72e-b428cb934b78

Both seem reasonably good sources and seem to show notability.Naraht (talk) 14:39, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

In my personal opinion I don't think so. Honestly I've never heard or seen/read anything on him prior to his appearance on drag race. Regardless of my opinion, I don't think having only 2 references is appropriate. I suggest creating a draft first that you can build upon rather than creating the article immediately and risk being tagged for deletion. Brocicle (talk) 15:04, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

Not sure I'd take it on myself, but I just intended it as a starting point. In addition

• https://www.popdust.com/raymond-braun-lgbt-activism-2010634154.html
• https://www.out.com/out100-2015/2015/11/09/out100-raymond-braun

Naraht (talk) 15:17, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

90 minutes long

Each episode is 90 minutes long. Stop writing 60 minutes when that is factually not the case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.185.150.242 (talk) 16:06, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

The show takes 90 minutes from start to finish, but 30 of those minutes are commercials. The time listed on Wikipedia is the duration of the show excluding commercials. Armadillopteryx^talk 19:38, 4 June 2018 (UTC)

By this logic 30 minute shows should be listen as fifteen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.185.150.242 (talk) 15:32, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

An episode of The Simpsons is allocated a 30 minute time slot but is only 20 minutes long because of 10 minutes allowed for commercials. It's a fact not "logic". All available downloads for Drag Race such as iTunes, Netflix, and Stan show that an episode is 60 minutes long. Do not change again. Brocicle (talk) 16:40, 5 June 2018 (UTC)

Logic and fact tend to go hand in hand and you love wikipedia, because you have no life. I understand that. Also, I would have changed it back had you not locked it.