Talk:Camila (album)

Release Date

Is there any sourced evidence of the September 22nd release date? The source given for the date doesn't even say as much, just mentioning "September" as an estimated time of release. I suppose it will be a moot point in 4 days, but it seems like the date should be removed unless a more concrete source can be found. - WeezleBeezle (talk) 03:49, 18 September 2017 (UTC)

Singles discarded from album

In an interview with The Elvis Duran Show, she was asked, "All the singles that you released recently - like 4 or 5 of them, are they going to be on the album?" To which she said, "No, they won't be." That means 'Crying in the Club, 'Havana', 'OMG' and 'I Have Questions' are scrapped from the album, according to the interview she did a couple days ago. So, does that mean that 'Havana' should be scrapped from the singles list on this article? De88 (talk) 09:25, 30 September 2017 (UTC)

I disagree. "Crying in the Club" was originally released as the lead single from her debut studio album. The song should be mentioned in the article. --Miaow 17:11, 12 December 2017 (UTC)

I am in agreement with Miaow. "Crying in the Club" was billed as the lead single from the album, and both "I Have Questions" and "OMG" were promoted as promotional singles from the release. That is a fact that cannot be disproven. Simply because they are not included on the album does not mean their inclusion within the article should be excluded. This has happened before with album releases, and there is no reason the Camila article should be a special exclusion of this. It is even mentioned, within the Singles section, that the lead was changed. That's more than acceptable. livelikemusic talk! 14:46, 14 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested Move

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus for a new title. (non-admin closure). feminist 15:05, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

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The Hurting. The Healing. The Loving. → ? – The Hurting. The Healing. The Loving. is no longer the title of the album. 68.195.141.2 (talk) 03:45, 16 November 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Mahveotm (talk) 20:07, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

• Oh boy. upcoming Camila Cabello album? an album not due until 2018, with no title.... In ictu oculi (talk) 09:34, 16 November 2017 (UTC)

• Could be moved to Camila Cabello debut solo album, until the title is announced which will probably be very soon Guyb123321 (talk) 21:46, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
• Oppose. Unless we have a new title to go with, this one remains the WP:COMMONNAME. Certainly the extant sources are calling it that, given that there's nothing else to call it, and per WP:NAMECHANGES we still defer to those. There is no need to do anything here yet.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:45, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Change name

The album is no longer called The Hurting.The Healing. The Loving. So can you please change the name of this page to TBA or TBD or something Lpigliavento99 (talk) 23:28, 17 November 2017 (UTC)

Album cover

She released the album cover in her instagram, please add it. with gratitude, Hello513 (talk) 17:10, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Real Friends

@Cornerstonepicker, Ss112, Livelikemusic, BlaccCrab, and Miaow: According to Genius and Instagram, Camila Cabello, Brian Lee, Mustafa Ahmed, Louis Bell, and Billy Walsh are credited as songwriters. However, Sony Music's Licensing website and iTunes credit Camila as the only songwriter. Which source should be used? FanofMusic ^{(Talk to Me!)} 00:20, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

Considering the metadata is what the record label sends out, I'd suggest using that... unless an ASCAP credit is known or we get the physical album booklet. Especially since, as far as I am aware, Genius.com is user-edited. livelikemusic talk! 01:11, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

I can't find the credits on ASCAP nor BMI. I'd go with the label. Cornerstonepicker (talk) 01:52, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

I figured as much. Thank you both for your input. FanofMusic ^{(Talk to Me!)} 17:42, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Some labels (specially Sony and Atlantic) usually credit the main artist as both the only performer and writer. In this case the song even features Camila Cabello as a guest artist, so clearly the credits are wrong. Anonpediann (talk) 15:11, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Latin pop album?

All sources say it has latin-influences, but Metro calls it a "sweet album of fairly understated Latin pop and classic pop ballads." to the infobox or a stretch? Cornerstonepicker (talk) 14:21, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Allmusic

Some editors have said that Allmusic shouldn't be used as a reliable source to support album genres per WP:ALBUMAVOID. — Zawl 21:14, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

In the interests of clarity:

• There are genre warriors at work here.
• At least one of them is a recurring sock of an indefinitely blocked editor.
• Any valid editor may revert any/all edits by a block evading editor without further explanation, per WP:EVADE.
• Block-evading genre warriors often lie about sources and/or guidelines.
• They've also been known to claim other editors are socks, falsify edit summaries to claim they are undoing edits they aren't undoing, use multiple accounts and IPs, etc.
• WP:ALBUMAVOID specifically says that "AllMusic's genre sidebar should be avoided." The prose at Allmusic is acceptable. GWARS have a tendency to selectively remember this.
• Anyone restoring a sock's edits takes full responsibility for the edit.

In this case, Allmusic's prose says that one track is "R&B-tinged". Someone used this to label the entire album R&B. No. I've removed it.

The Guardian source for pop says "what a strong pop album Camila is" and it is "clearly a pop album". I've left it.

Personally, when I spot edits by a recurring. block-evading genre warrior, I revert first and ask questions later. Maybe they have a point. Maybe not. To get to the point of being indefed, they've gone past the point where I will listen to them at all. - SummerPhD^v2.0 21:55, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

As it turns out, where I ended up by looking at the sources was to revert Malacify247 edit which restored Littlemixfan!'s IP sock edits. Malacify247 seems to be another sock of Littlemixfan. - SummerPhD^v2.0 22:11, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Real Friends single?

Is really Real Friends (remix) the third single of the album? Camila never metioned or said that, even her manager don’t say anything about the the third single. I think that is just only promotional, because there is not a radio release date. Maxgoldman12334 (talk) 10:03, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Song's don't need radio add dates to be singles - sometimes they are organically picked up by radio. Additionally managers/labels don't always accompany song releases with a statement. For the time being, WP:BLUE applies - unless something else is said otherwise etc. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 20:15, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

I agree with Maxgoldman12334 . Consequences is the third official single, according to fans who received Camila's mailbox with letters and pictures about the third single. H9v9n9

If the manager or singer didn't say anything about the song, it does not mean that it isn't a single. If a song is released for sales or to radio, it's generally a single. The sources in the article support the proof of Real Friends featuring Swae Lee being available for sale as single. --Miaow 23:55, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

I disagree with Miaow, promotional single is released for digital sales only, without being sent to any radio, which means Real Friends Remix follows the rule of being defined as an promotional single. If it's still a promotional single, it can't be classified as an official single. Moreover, Maxgoldman12334's doubt that Real Friends Remix is not the third official single is totally alright. --H9v9n9 00:16, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

An artist or their team does not need to announce a single. --DovahDuck (talk) 03:42, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

@H9v9n9: N No. A single is a type of release separately such as digital download. Plus, sources in the article support Real Friends ft. Swae Lee is a single. --Miaow 01:12, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

@Miaow: So is OMG an official single? --H9v9n9 10:25, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

OMG was released separately as digital download. Sources in the article support OMG is a single. So what? OMG is still a promotional single. Now, who's N? Not me. --H9v9n9 10:25, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Apparently what happened is that Real Friends was planned as the 3rd single but its commercial performance was bad to the point that her team decided to send Consequences for radio adds instead. So Consequences should be the official 3rd single, with the Real Friends remix being a buzz track. ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 11:19, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Now, I agree with ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º×. Thanks a lot!--H9v9n9 11:26, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

We should be consistent in our application of these things. Many reliable sources refer to "Real Friends" as the third single from Camila, and the Swae Lee remix was released for purchase and streaming as separate from the album (unlike promotional singles which appear as part of the album on digital and streaming platforms). It is a single. Plain and simple, we have sources calling it as such. Its treatment is no different than "Can't Dance", which was concluded to be Meghan Trainor's third single despite not receiving radio adds.--NØ 14:58, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

Literally even Billboard (a heavily reputed source) called it a single. And then we have this source that explicitly calls it the album's third official single release. Just because a song flopped doesn't mean an artist's fans can remove it as a single. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and we go with what reliable sources say.--NØ 15:09, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

@H9v9n9: Again. Singles aren't required to be sent to radio. Labeling any song without a radio release as not a single is original research by Maxgoldman12334, Merynancy and you, and not allowed. Reliable sources are consistent. Cheers! --Miaow 16:54, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

This is the same case as The Light Is Coming by Ariana Grande - it was her 2nd single for like a week, then it flopped and got downgraded to promo single. ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 23:45, 8 October 2018 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is really not a valid argument. Do you have any reliable source that says "Real Friends" was degraded to a promo single? Because we do have reliable sources referring to it as the album's third single.--NØ 00:13, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

The only reliable source is her label, they never stated Real Friends Remix was a single, media outlets always call any song released by any artist a single. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.75.229.36 (talk) 14:06, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

@Merynancy: No sorry, The Light Is Coming was realeased as a promotional single since the begining, it was never released as a single. And MaranoFan is right, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXIST and WP:OTHERCONTENT isn't a valid argument. We don't need confirmation from the artist or their label to know if a song is a single. --Miaow 15:09, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

@187.75.229.36: "Media outlets" are what have always been used as sources on Wikipedia, especially highly reliable ones like Billboard. There's vitually no source referring to "Real Friends" as a "promotional single", and many referring to it as a single. I'm only seeing two fans of the artist baselessly assert that this song isn't a single just because it flopped commercially. Unless you have a reliable source explicitly suggesting that RF is a "promotional single" there is really no argument here.--NØ 15:19, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

This whole discussion is so pointless, what about use her label as a source? https://twitter.com/syco/status/1049683674025943040?s=19 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.26.213.92 (talk) 15:42, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Now works for me. I think we can remove Real Friends remix from the article, but the song will remain in her discography, because it's still a single. --Miaow 16:02, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

The music industry has changed a lot, record labels now simply don't acknowledge single releases after they flop. But since her label itself said Consequences is the third single, we should too. I'm removing Real Friends.--NØ 16:07, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

There it is. As far as my understanding goes, an official single today is defined by a radio adds date in almost all cases - they release it digitally and see how it does, if it flops then it's suddenly a "promo single", a "buzz track", or in miss Camila Cabello's own words, "a gift to the fans". ׺°”˜`”°º×ηυηzια׺°”˜`”°º× 17:37, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

@Creativity97: Care to explain why you re-added Real Friends as the third single and went against the consensus here without even having the courtesy to leave an edit summary?--NØ 21:13, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not an argument. When "OMG and Havana" were released, both were announced as singles. Havana gained traction so was the first official single from the album. "Omg" was dubbed a promo. Unless it is specifically referred to as a promo single, "Real Friends" is a single. I don't know what everyone's fascination is with speculation about why "Real Friends" promo was stopped etc... but it doesn't matter. This isn't a fansite so stop treating it like one please. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 15:23, 10 October 2018(UTC)

According to a Syco tweet, Consequences is the third single. Real Friends remix is a single, but isn't from this album. That's why Real friends remix should be removed from this article and the song keeps in Cabello's discography, cause it is obviously a single but isn't from this one. --Miaow 19:38, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

@MaranoFan: I wasn't aware of this discussion/consensus. I didn't leave an edit summary because back in August when the Real Friends remix was first released, there were several sources that claimed it was the third single and I explained that in a past edit, since people kept removing the song from the singles list without explanation. If it has been decided that several sources now claim Consequences is the third official single (including her label) and the Real Friends remix has been labelled a promotional/buzz single, the body of the article needs to be updated to reflect that since there is still text and sources citing Real Friends as the third single. Creativity97 00:11, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Here own website says "Real Friends" is a single here. → Lil-℧niquԐ 1 - { Talk } - 17:35, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

References

Make Never Be the Same Tour into a seperate article

The Never Be the Same Tour has enough reliable sources listed on this article, and not including the others floating on the internet, to be made into another article. By the looks of it, the tour section shouldn't be squished into the supporting album article, not to mention the lengthy set and tour list. † MunRis † 06:39, 23 December 2018 (UTC)

I agree. I'll do this soon if no one else does it before I guess.--NØ 14:56, 29 December 2018 (UTC)