Talk:Attempted assassination of Donald Trump in Pennsylvania

Was he shot?

I've seen conflicting reports as to whether he was actually shot. Benpiano800 (talk) 22:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Sky News claims there was blood coming out of his ear, which would imply the bullet hit him. Luunarr (talk) 22:43, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Could also be injury from the Secret Service agents jumping on top of him. Mårtensås (talk) 22:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

He reached for his ear right after you here the first shot and before the secret service run to him 129.13.192.39 (talk) 22:58, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

So far none of the sources seem to clearly say that he was shot. Will become clearer once we know more. Gust Justice (talk) 22:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

cnn reported he was injured

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/13/politics/trump-injured-pennsylvania-rally/index.html CViB (talk) 23:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

because they saw him bleeding. if that was from the shot or something else is unknown. the SS hasn't confirmed anything besides the fact that he's safe Problem$0lved (talk) 23:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

NBC News speculates that it came from the shot, hope information comes out soon. Breadstocks (talk) 23:33, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

It appears that he was shot: https://x.com/MerylKornfield/status/1812263916497506711 NorthropChicken (talk) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The phrase "grazed by gunfire" doesn't necessarily mean actually hit with a bullet. Kingsif (talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

theguardian is saying he possibly got his by glass... presumably from the teleprompter Tdwizew (talk) 23:48, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Title

"Shooting" might be taken to imply that the attack was fatal. I propose moving to "2024 Donald Trump assassination attempt". Mårtensås (talk) 22:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

But we do not know yet if it was an actuall assasination attempt? Tinkaer1991 (talk) 22:51, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

If/when it comes out that it was an assassination attempt (i doubt it wont), we should just call it Donald Trump assassination attempt. In the meantime, we should call it smthn like "Donald Trump PA rally incident/shooting"Nojus R (talk) 22:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes i agree. Tinkaer1991 (talk) 22:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, but I am not even sure "shooting" is appropriate at this point: none of the reliable sources state that unequivocally. Dumuzid (talk) 22:56, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree in principle but the current title "2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally" is a bit awkward. Pickle Mon (talk) 23:00, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I surely agree, maybe "incident" would be more appropriate Tinkaer1991 (talk) 23:02, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Atleast until we have more information about the plot behind Tinkaer1991 (talk) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

It's the indefinite article I was talking about Pickle Mon (talk) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

i mean getting shot at is by definition an "Assassination's attempt" especially when you're a high stake politician

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/07/13/politics/trump-injured-pennsylvania-rally/index.html CViB (talk) 23:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

We don't know the alledged assassin's intentions, and therefore cannot yet rule it to be an assassination attempt. Tinkaer1991 (talk) 23:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

As of right now, the page title should stay as is, but I agree that the name could be changed to something more informational. Silaaaaaa (talk) 23:20, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

"Shooting" could also imply that it was a mass shooting so I think your title is better, though I do also think we should wait before moving in case it's labeled something else. Articles about mass shootings simply say "shooting" in their title. As it stands I believe both CNN and Fox report that there were multiple shots fired but only Donald Trump and one bystander are confirmed to be struck but both still alive and receiving urgent care. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. LegendoftheGoldenAges85 of the  East  (talk | worse talk) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

My last statement is wrong. Donald Trump and one bystander are hurt but in care; a second bystander was killed, as of right now. LegendoftheGoldenAges85 of the  East  (talk | worse talk) 23:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Rename

I think Attempted assassination of Donald Trump would be a better title, per example of Attempted assassination of Ronald Reagan. There's no reason why 2024 should be specified in this specific situation since it was the first to happen. Luunarr (talk) 22:53, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

agreed 24.115.255.37 (talk) 22:54, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

If and when the sources tell us it was unequivocally an assassination attempt, I agree. Dumuzid (talk) 22:57, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Unkown at this time if it was an attemted assasination. Give it a bit CitrusHemlock 23:12, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Given reporting on his injury, as well as precedent for former presidents where an attempt was made made(See: Attempted assassination of Theodore Roosevelt), the move to attempted assassination is appropriate. Foreheadman (talk) 23:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed also. Eastwood Park and strabane (talk) 23:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed 2605:8D80:5C0:E1D2:63CD:9DDB:B0CC:6683 (talk) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed SpringField23402 (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Disagree. We do not yet know if this was an assassination attempt, much less if Trump was the actual target. It certainly seems likely, but the shooter may have, for example, been trying to kill someone else. Or he may have been trying to just wound Trump, rather than kill him. Stick with reliable information for now. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 23:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Please let's not turn the article into a reaction farm

I think we should only include reactions if they're notable. Random expressions of sympathy will unnecessarily bloat the Reactions section. Nythar (💬-🍀) 23:01, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

As per usual, I think it's worthwhile to have Biden and Shapiro's reactions. Other reactions can be added if they prove to be meaningful (i.e. if a politician starts a conspiracy that gets popular) Ornov Ganguly (talk) 23:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Absolutely agree. Keep to congressional leadership, world leaders, and Shapiro (and white house assuming they respond). Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 23:09, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Agreed, I came here to say the same thing. This happens all the time with shooting articles. They get bloated with reactions from every Tom, Dick and Harry. Isaidnoway (talk) 23:05, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Would it be best to remove the section on X users too? I feel like it's a bit redundant and way too vague of a statement, all things considered. Anjellies (talk) 23:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Business people and fan/supporter reactions are not needed. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:11, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Let's bar new additions besides Joe Biden, Ruben Gallego, Gretchen Whitmer, and Josh Shapiro. We can discuss other people here. I am removing Elon Musk. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oganguly (talk • contribs) 23:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this analysis. I think political leaders from the area and in the relevant federal arena may be appropriate. A random businessperson of any persuasion is inappropriate. Zkidwiki (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Musk is the world’s wealthiest man; hardly random. Mårtensås (talk) 23:24, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Yes, but it's a matter of if he does anything with his wealth or power. Does his one sentence tweet of support matter? Ornov Ganguly (talk) 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Elon Musk was added back, but we can discuss here whether to keep it. I also believe Gallego might be unnessisary. He's just a random member from Arizona and I anticipate many, many members of congress on both sides of the aisle addressing this. And Governors will too, so to that extent I don't know if Whitmer's needed. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 23:21, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Musk is unnecessary unless he mobilises something major in support of Trump. As it stands, he just sent a Tweet. NYT reporting does not lend it newsworthiness because they're slapping everything on a live feed right now. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Musk is undue. "Space man said something on Twitter" isn't worth being in the article about an assassination attempt. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I am suggesting we follow the Attack on Paul Pelosi's reaction page. Start at the President, mention the VP's reaction, local governor and mayors' reactions, and then in a few weeks or months we can discuss the general rabble/politicians' reactions. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Amending this with a recommendation to hold off on adding new reactions for another week. The Notre-Dame fire had an impossibly large reaction page for a long time. Save us all the effort. Ornov Ganguly (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Came here to say the same thing. Unless the reaction actually has a significant effect as described in reliable sources, they're trivia and there is no reason to include them. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 13 July 2024

2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally → 2024 assassination attempt of Donald Trump – High usage of the term attempted assassination. Prior to administrator protection, this was the article title and an administrator, without discussion, moved it to the current name. Sources: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8] The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC) The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:04, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• PLEASE WAIT until we get some non-breaking-news sources, its impossible to gauge a COMMONNAME this early. – Hilst [talk] 23:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I'm not going to go with any "wait" ideas, given an administrator moved it away from that title with 0 discussion. It was the title prior to administrator protection, and a single person determined the current name. Nah, a discussion needs to happen. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• I'd support a move to Attempted assassination of Donald Trump since none of the other assassination attempts against him (such as the ricin one) were nearly as notable as this one. Nythar (💬-🍀) 23:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• (edit conflict)+1 Hilst, although "2024 Donald Trump rally shooting" is probably better than current title. Queen of Hearts ^talk 23:07, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose- Not confirmed SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:08, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

@SimplyLouis27: WP:VNT. Do you have proof/sources that it was not confirmed or is not the common term? I listed 8 sources above using it. Sorry, but SNOWCLOSE isn't a valid thing for this, with a "not confirmed" reasoning because Wikipedia doesn't care about what is or isn't confirmed. Only what is verifiable, which "attempted assassination" is as presented above. If you wish to oppose, you can, but please provide a valid oppose reasoning via Wikipedia's policy. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:10, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:RS SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose for now, let's wait until there is a general consensus in reliable sources. There is no deadline. Isaidnoway (talk) 23:14, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Oppose and wait, we still do not know the motive of the perpetrator(s), It's possible it was not the goal to harm Trump but simply shoot at the rally. There is more information we should wait for. I believe we can move when it is confirmed an assassination was the goal. Bigfatman8766 (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Current events, WikiProject Politics, WikiProject Donald Trump, WikiProject United States, WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, WikiProject Pennsylvania, and WikiProject United States History have been notified of this discussion. RodRabelo7 (talk) 23:13, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose, with the amount of edits going through, it would not be good to move this early. ElusiveTaker^(talk) 23:17, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support This article already says that it was an assignation attempt in the side bar. Others of list many sources calling it this, and here is one. CavDan24 (talk) 23:19, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  See WP:NYPOST - There is consensus the New York Post is generally unreliable for factual reporting, especially with regard to politics. Isaidnoway (talk) 23:22, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support Clearly was an assassination attempt, shots were fired and Donald Trump was injured. BigRed606 (talk) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  No WP:RS has confirmed this, saying it was and assassination attempt is currently speculation. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:27, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  I'm saying this with no disrespect, but you are either as blind as a bat or just being really ignorant. There is 8 RS listed in the proposal saying it was an assassination attempt. Since this is now the 2nd time your mentioned RS not using it, I'm specifically calling out the 8 sources above. If you still say RS as an oppose reasoning, take all eight sources to WP:RSN to get a consensus on their reliability. The Weather Event Writer (Talk Page) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  With respect, most of those are not RS, or should not be taken as RS on such matters when well-established political and national news media are not saying something. The rest are just repeating verbatim what the first lot said. But they're just hyperbolic for clicks, because until there is intelligence about the situation, it cannot be said conclusively, and no RS worth its salt is going to effectively influence the immediate intelligence-gathering by putting such a statement out there. Kingsif (talk) 23:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  the sources you listed aren't exactly well known media organisations. For example, the BBC make not mention of this being a assassination attempt. [9]. Also, please don't call other editors ignorant its quite rude and condescending. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support but wait: It was pretty clearly an assassination attempt; however, I'm willing to wait for more reliable sources describing it as such. No objections, either, to calling it "2024 shooting of Donald Trump", or something simple in that respect; I strongly dislike the current name, which is wordy and falls flat on encyclopedic guidelines. — Javert2113 (Siarad.|¤) 23:25, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait — No conclusions should be drawn at this time. elijahpepe@wikipedia (he/him) 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support His ear was literally shot, and the shooter was clearly aiming for his head. Had the shooter succeeded and killed him it would have been referred to as an assassination. PlanetDeadwing (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait until we know more. Benpiano800 (talk) 23:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait until the motive of the attack becomes clear. Wikipedia1010121 (talk) 23:28, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support But wait, clearly was an attempt to assasinate. MildLoser (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: County prosecutor has confirmed he was grazed by gunfire and the current title is not encyclopedic. natemup (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support: Multiple sources are now confirming that shots were fired and that the shooter is dead. 2001:569:6FFC:F901:8C20:E381:3B92:7FDC (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait I think most people can agree that's what it is but we need 1000% proof first. Pickle Mon (talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support for now, but we should wait. Almost every media source I can find explores the potential of "assassination attempt", even if they also refer to it as a shooting; though there is as of yet no official classification. Let's wait—but given current information, support is the way to go. LegendoftheGoldenAges85 of the  East  (talk | worse talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Speedy support - Confirmed assassination attempt. Poxy4 (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait even though signs point to assassination. Still wait. Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait There are no official versions yet whether Trump was the main target of the assassination attempt or not, but it is obvious that he was. I suggest waiting for the official version of law enforcement agencies about whether Trump was the main target, and if they confirm that he was, then change the page name.  PLATEL  (talk) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait. We are getting to a point where the media will say this is attempted, but I think there we should wait. However, shouldn't this be like "Assassination Attempt of Donald Trump" (omitting the year, to be in line with Reagan's article) 49p (talk) 23:34, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

It would in that case be Attempted assassination of Donald Trump based on the Ronald Reagan article (and many, many other articles). LegendoftheGoldenAges85 of the  East  (talk | worse talk) 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support and wait All information pointing to intentional shooting, but wait for more news NorthropChicken (talk) 23:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support but wait: It was pretty clearly an assassination attempt; according to sources i read, multiple shoots being witnessed. let's wait for now and not rush things up till things get a bit cleared out. —— 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 23:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support and wait Everyone above has valid points on the necessity to wait for more information. GuardianH (talk) 23:37, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support — WP:BLUE. Barring any issues with the title, the Butler attorney general has confirmed gunfire and everything hints at it to be a politically-motivated assassinatiion attempt. Luunarr (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support - all sources say assassination at this point, combined with pretty basic intuition. — Knightoftheswords 23:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Wait, and oppose anything speedy No major media outlet (the proposal sources are dubious for political matters at best, some outright trash) is saying so, because they cannot confirm it, because police intelligence (while this is major and they will be working quickly) will not have yet told them so. The reason why no solid RS is running with "looks pretty obvious" is to not interfere, and Wikipedia absolutely does not lead the way on describing such incidents, especially if it would be applying a criminal motive that has not been reported by police yet. Kingsif (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support and wait for more information. Hume42 (talk) 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support we literally see it happen in the video, there's no debate it was an attempt to assassinate him LittleMAHER1 (talk) 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

There's NORUSH. You are still making assumptions. Nfitz (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

the infobox on this article lists "assassination attempt" under "Attack Type" LittleMAHER1 (talk) 23:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Oppose - we don't know who the target was. We've got years to change it. There's other issues with the title ... 2024? Have there been others? Was it a rally or a campaign event? Nfitz (talk) 23:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  I'd call a "rally" a campaign event. Potato potahto. And who else would the target have possibly been? Pickle Mon (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  Nfitz, eh you got sense about "2024? Have there been others? " —— 🌸 Sakura emad 💖 (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support but wait until more reliable sources call it that or change “shooting” to “political violence” as it is also being called that.[10] Wafflefrites (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
• Support "Shooting of Donald Trump", pending further announcements of motive. The article title can be improved even before a motive is released, and the fact that Trump was shot appears to be the single most notable thing here. We don't need to circumlocute to "2024 shooting at a Donald Trump rally" pending future announcements when we can make an incremental change to benefit the page. Status quo is not good enough, and also is not the sort of thing that we should default to in a WP:NOCON close, since the original page title was at 2024 attempted assassination of Donald Trump. If we do get motive, then I would support Attempted assassination of Donald Trump, since we don't need the year and it's better grammar-wise. — Red-tailed hawk _(nest) 23:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

  Axiosreporting that he wasn't shot, so that title would be even more misleading. Kingsif (talk) 23:50, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

• Support but wait. We should make sure we have the fine details worked out before. There has been reports by reputable news sources about this topic, but there's definitely still some ambiguity that needs settling. 𝙰𝙶𝚛𝚎𝚊𝚝𝚄𝚜𝚎𝚛𝚗𝚊𝚖𝚎𝙲𝚑𝚘𝚒𝚌𝚎 _(ramble) 23:47, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Number of victims

Currently there's no source on the number of victims (other than Donald Trump), despite it saying that there are two victims (one of which being Donald) and one death PikaCookies (talk) 23:24, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

The Guardian is reporting that the would-be assassin and an attendee at the rally are dead. -Ad Orientem (talk) 23:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

they is also talk another attendee is severely wounded Tdwizew (talk) 23:46, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 July 2024

Change {{Short description|Non-fatal shooting at rally of former U.S. President Donald Trump}} to {{Short description|Fatal shooting at rally of former U.S. President Donald Trump}} RidgelantRL (talk) 23:26, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

WP:RS for this? Donald Trump is confirmed as being safe [11]. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I am hearing on CNN now that AP reported one attendee is dead Jcoolbro (talk) (c) 23:36, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Your wording implies that trump was the one who was fatally shot. SimplyLouis27 (talk) 23:38, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

From media reports, it appears the dead attendee is the shooter. The shooter shot at Trump, law enforcement returned fire and killed the shooter. SomethingForDeletion (talk) 23:39, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

It should be left as "shooting at rally of former U.S. President Donald Trump." Cwater1 (talk) 23:30, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

I don't see the need to include 'former US president', Donald Trump is not going to be confused with anyone else, and a short description is supposed to be short. WhoAteMyButter (🌷_talk│🌻^contribs) 23:32, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

That wording implies that Trump was killed. Benpiano800 (talk) 23:33, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Sorry mate RidgelantRL (talk) 23:45, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

So tired of citing shooting metaphors.

The current article lede states:

Days before the incident, President Joe Biden stated "it's time to put Trump in a bullseye".

This is a long-standing metaphor in politics and other fields. People keep using it because there is no social consensus for not using it. That being so, why quote this? Conservatives who defended Palin using it will now attack Biden, liberals who attacked Palin will now defend Biden. Until someone writes Political speech § Shooting metaphors to offer clarity I see nothing to be gained by putting too much prominence on such remarks. Thank you. Tfdavisatsnetnet (talk) 23:29, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

If the sources specifically connect the phrase to the incident, then it should be included. If they don't, then including it violates our policies on original research and neutral point of view. Thebiguglyalien (talk) 23:35, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Single source: "Shooter and one audience member reportedly dead"

AP and Washington Post are reporting this, though it's from only one local DA, and not from the Secret Service or any federal government spokesperson. Take with a grain of salt:

• Washington Post reporter via Twitter - https://x.com/MerylKornfield/status/1812263916497506711

  Butler county district attorney Richard Goldinger tells me Trump was grazed by gunfire but is safe. An audience member was killed and the shooter is dead. Another person is in serious condition, the prosecutor said.

• Associated Press - https://apnews.com/live/election-biden-trump-campaign-updates-07-13-2024

If added, I would suggest it needs this context, and not simply be stated as a fact as of now. - Fuzheado | Talk 23:41, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/live-blog/trump-biden-rnc-election-live-updates-rcna161404 NBC as well Gosh dern (talk) 23:44, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Three dead

Fox News has indicated that three, including the shooter and two others, are as of now dead. Ublaz01 (talk) 23:49, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Nope. Fox isn't reliable for politics on Wikipedia. LilianaUwU ^{(talk / contributions)} 23:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Something to keep an eye on, as Fox News is not a perennial reliable source. See what other news orgs report. - Fuzheado | Talk 23:52, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

Trump was only hit by a teleprompter shrapnel

i just saw this at Newsmax and he was not shot directly it was only from the shrapnel from the teleprompter Jatanea (talk) 23:51, 13 July 2024 (UTC)