Talk:African-American presidents of the United States in popular culture

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A fact from African-American presidents of the United States in popular culture appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 February 2009, and was viewed approximately 1,975 times (disclaimer) (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Sammy Davis Jr.'s 1933 role in Rufus Jones for President is considered to be the first portrayal of an African American president of the United States in popular culture?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2009/February.

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Comments on this article and it's fraternal twin

This article was created from the history of a deleted article, (but the history was restored so that's not an issue). The other part of the article I spun off into Black presidential candidates in the United States. I considered using the terminology of "African American" that is preferred now, but I determined it was best to stick with "black" since that was what was used at the time most of these cultural events occured. I do think some mention of the evolution of the terminology itself and its usage would be good to mention or include in the article. That's part of the cultural history. Thanks to everyone for cleaning it up, in some cases for the second time. If only there was a way to include Aunty Entity, Mayor of Bordertown: You think I don't know the law? Wasn't it me who wrote it? And I say that this man has broken the law. Right or wrong, we had a deal. And the law says: bust a deal and face the wheel! ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:10, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm the one who took out Aunty, and I hated doing it. As a lawyer, I can argue it square or round. One can argue that the third Mad Max movie is surely a part of American popular culture. But my editorial gut says including this example still confuses more than it enlightens. David in DC (talk) 15:35, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

hey!

I thought it'd be back. was that so fucking hard to rename? all that damn rigamarole over a title. Cogido 'll aka Huh? 06:39, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The title of an article is never grounds for deletion, and if that had been the issue (which it most assuredly was not), the article would never have been deleted. Un school 07:24, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Chris Rock

Would someone else take a stab at melding the two Chris Rock grafs and deciding where it goes? I can't find a way to combine them that doesn't suck. Thanks. David in DC (talk) 15:40, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Not yet an article

This seems mostly a list of people in roles, and types of media, with no secondary sources that say something about the meaning of these various types of portrayals in popular culture. Needs more substance.--Parkwells (talk) 16:38, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There are some long quotes in the citations. More of that information can be included in the article text now that this is its own article. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:41, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that rigorous assessment. 12 or 13 hours might be a little early for rendering judgments, but it's important to keep our eyes on the prize --- in this case, an excellent article. I, for one, appreciate the reminder. David in DC (talk) 16:48, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some sources and additional content. There's oodles (unfortunately some of it fairly repetetive). Here's a couple stories I haven't had a chance to add and I'm getting edit conflicted, so if someone want to help, have at it.

Black presidents we have known

What does it look like to have an African-American in the White House? Pop culture has offered versions awful and great, from Sammy Davis Jr. to Chris Rock. http://www.salon.com/ent/feature/2008/11/03/black_presidents/print.html

REALITY VS. TV SCRIPT ; TELEVISION MAY BE READY FOR A BLACK PRESIDENT BUT IS THE REST OF AMERICA?

[STATEWIDE Edition] Hartford Courant - Hartford, Conn. Author: GREG MORAGO; Courant Staff Writer Date: Jan 15, 2007 [2]

Black like them; Put an African American in the White House? Maybe it doesn't seem so far-fetched because Hollywood's already been there, done that. Los Angeles Times Popular culture, Presidential elections, Motion pictures, African Americans Greg Braxton Jun 22, 2008 [3]
Hollywood paves the way for reality

6 Nov 2008 CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA, TNN Times of India http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/USA/Hollywood_paves_the_way_for_reality/articleshow/3679356.cms

WORLD MUSIC: The Black President; The extraordinary musical legacy of Fela Anikulapo-Kuti is finally to be given the celebration it deserves, says MARTIN LONGLEY.(Features)

Article from: The Independent (London, England) Article date: September 3, 2004 Author: Longley, Martin http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-121559040.html

80 Years Of Fictional Black Presidents NPR http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=98094510

ChildofMidnight (talk) 18:05, 28 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What about the guy in Fifth Element? He was the president wasn't he? ChildofMidnight (talk) 07:33, 31 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Someone added this. Thanks. ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:34, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Article ownership

ChildofMidnight, you can't act as if you own this article. You have reverted each edit every editor has made to the article for at least the last 20 edits. That's not okay. This is a collaborative project, and I hope you consider the ramifications negating the contributions of potential allies. • Freechild'sup? 10:59, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm sorry you feel that I've acted that way. Is there a particular change that you want to make that's been reverted? The last couple changes I made were to incldude the woth "hit" to describe the show 24 which is straight from the source and more significant, and to add back in that Eddie Murphy was born the same year as Obama, which is a bit peripheral, but I think gives good context and perspective. It should be merged into the sentence I think so it reads soemthing like Eddie Murphy, who was born the same year as Obama, .... Certainly there's an argument to be made it doesn't belong, but I think it's relevant. This is an article about the images and depictions of black presidents in popular culture and Eddie Murphy is a major figure in pop culture who has done satire on the issue, while Obama is the first African American president. So there is a tie and their being born the same year is interesting and I think relevant. Other than that I think I reverted to an intro phrasing that was more logical. Mostly I would like to add to the article and expand it. ChildofMidnight (talk) 16:46, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Move

Suggest this be moved to "Black president of the United States in popular culture", it reads like "president in popular culture" is a title. Bit of a misplaced modifier--kelapstick (talk) 19:04, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I disagree. And in case you haven't heard I own this page. Your title is wordy and the article is about a black president in the popular culture of the United States not a Black president of the United States in popular cultue. ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:38, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would be willing to move the article to black president or Black president (United States). ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:39, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A shorter title would be "Black president in popular culture (United States)", which is consistent with some other articles and spans both concepts.--Parkwells (talk) 19:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm good with that. Kelapstick, what say you? ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:45, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine with me, but what about Black presidents in American pop culture, gets rid of the brackets.--kelapstick (talk) 19:49, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also CoM, the only presidential representation in this article is the President of the United States, unless there are plans to add representations in US pop culture of presidents of other countries.--kelapstick (talk) 19:52, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't like the plural, it makes it sound like it could be about all kinds of presidents. Do we need to use the African American terminology? Would that be better and then discuss the evolving etymology in the article? I still like Black president in popular culture (United States). That's the most accurate terminology I think. African American wasn't used to describe these portrayals. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:00, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

And to answer your question K, I think famous depictions by Americans in American cinema of black presidents of any country would be good to note. Are there some? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:04, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think looking at/discussing black presidents in other cultures would quickly get too far off topic, especially as this hasn't been fleshed out yet. Each country has a different history. For instance, Forest Whittaker was outstanding as Idi Amin in "The Last King of Scotland", about Uganda, but I'm not sure what that has to do with the US electoral politics (don't think it was an American production, either.)--Parkwells (talk) 20:13, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

LKofScotland was an American-British co-production, but British writers, director, and numerous actors, with Whittaker in the lead.--Parkwells (talk) 21:02, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Idi Amin was a military dictator. So I don't think terming that a depiction of a black president is entirely accurate. If we're going to include black (or African American) leaders, Tina Turner is ready to rock! ChildofMidnight (talk) 21:29, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In Did we decide on a place to move this yet?--kelapstick (talk) 23:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If you're happy with Black president in popular culture (United States) let's make it happen. That compromise seems a reasonable title to me. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:27, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Fine with me.--kelapstick (talk) 23:30, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

OK with me, too.--Parkwells (talk) 23:46, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Possible sources for material

If this is to be more than listing of actors, films and comedic routines, editors need to look beyond press accounts for deeper discussions about how the representation of black presidents has evolved. Why were there comedy routines before serious portrayals (probably follows a common path of representation)? How did audiences react to these different portrayals? No doubt much of this has been studied in academic works about film and comedy.--Parkwells (talk) 20:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Chris Tucker in 2000

If there isn't something more to say about him than he planned a movie, I recommend this be deleted.--Parkwells (talk) 23:26, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It's pretty marginal. But it's sourced. I vote we ignore it for the time being, but I don't care really one way or the other. ChildofMidnight (talk) 23:41, 30 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From AfD to DYK in about a month

Congratulations to everyone who's helping to get this article into shape. David in DC (talk) 12:05, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks and congrats to whoever nominated it for the DYK, too - --Parkwells (talk) 19:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Notability

I made this edit, but Parkwells removed it because "A scene that was deleted and people would not have seen does not seem worth including here." I am reposting it on discuss for a second opinion:

In a deleted scene from the 1989 science fiction film, Star Trek V: The Final Frontier, set in 2280^[1], Mount Rushmore National Memorial was depicted with the face of a female African-American president.

--Needscurry (talk) 18:16, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Memory Alpha wiki, while extraordinarily cool, is not a reliable source to establish the deleted scene's notability. I think the scene would be notable if there were an article in a reliable source about it, like if it was included as a bonus on a DVD set and a reviewer mentioned it. But it needs to be sourced to something more than Memory Alpha. David in DC (talk) 18:44, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ [1]

Cosby Show?

While I don't doubt the relevance of the Cosbys to the portrayal of African-Americans in the media in general and perhaps even to a discussion of Obama's race in relation to the popular culture (I haven't read the cited source, but I can definitely imagine it says what it's being cited as saying), but ... isn't this article supposed to be about depictions of Black PotUSes pre-2008? The Cosby Show seems somewhat off-topic here... Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 15:10, 2 February 2015 (UTC)[reply]

1898

It's not pretty, but here's an 1898 song File:When a coon sits in the presidential chair (NYPL Hades-610098-1256028).jpg ... -- AnonMoos (talk) 00:07, 14 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Move discussion in progress

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