Talk:Balec

A fact from Balec appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 8 February 2012 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Roman Catholic Diocese of Balecium still exists although Baleč was destroyed in the 15th century?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2012/February.

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Military history: Fortifications

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This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion met

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Photo

I think I found a photo of the remnants of the town on google maps. Does anybody know is it possible to use it on wikipedia and how?--Antidiskriminator (talk) 16:56, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

If you have a Panoramio account, you might ask the photographer to change the license of that particular photo to Attribution-Share Alike. (The default is All Rights Reserved - most Panoramio contributors probably don't notice or care.) If he agrees, than the photo can be uploaded to Commons, and problem solved. GregorB (talk) 21:48, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have opened Panoramio account and asked photographer to change the licence to Attribution-Share Alike. Thank you for your advice.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:09, 25 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Any particular reason why this settlement that is in Albania should have a Serbian name in the English Wikipedia? Mesfushor (talk) 21:17, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Baleč is not in Albania because it does not exist anymore. Per Wikipedia:Naming conventions: If the place does not exist anymore, or the article deals only with a place in a period when it held a different name, the widely accepted historical English name should be used. If neither of these English names exist, the modern official name, in articles dealing with the present, or the modern local historical name, in articles dealing with a specific period, should be used. When it existed Baleč was Serbian town. It was built on the site of former Roman castle. During its existence it was part of ~~Serbian~~ medieval states Duklja and Zeta (in period between beginning of 11th and beginning of 15th century) when it became part of Venice and soon abandoned. --Antidiskriminator (talk) 21:38, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The ruins are still in Albania, they didn't disappear. The policy says exactly what I'm concerned with: the policy of stating the local modern historical name in an article which refers to a settlement of a specific historical period, means the opposite of what you claim. Local in this case is Albania, and modern is Balec (not Baleč), which I sourced. The policy doesn't say contemporary but modern. Modern means as of today in the Albanian language. Besides, I wouldn't expect a master editor like you to call the medieval states of Duklja and Zeta (or Rascia for that matter) "Serbian". After all you are the author of the Nationalization of history article. Mesfushor (talk) 22:00, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are right. I should not refer to them as Serbian. I should say Serb populated, or something like that... but I was in a hurry. This is first time I did it. Bravo for noticing it!--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:21, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Populations were mixed. Anyways, you didn't answer my interpretation: Move to Balec? Mesfushor (talk) 22:25, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Use Requested move template, please. --WhiteWriter^speaks 22:44, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)I understood "the modern local historical name" as modern findings about the local name used historically. If you read the last section it would be obvious that local population were not Catholic Venetians but Orthodox Christians. That means that the local historical name was Baleč not Balezo. Am I right Mesfushor? --Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:47, 8 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry but your understanding is incorrect, and I trust you will agree with me on that, as I have had the chance to follow your work over the years which consists mostly of positive contributions, although several times I have disagreed with your interpretations. You cannot arbitrarily interpret "modern" as "modern findings"; the policy is very clear in that it says "modern local historical name", local is simply Albanian, and modern is 2012. Then the policy says that All applicable names can be used in the titles of redirects.. So there should be a move to Balec with no diacritics. Once that we clarify this, I don't have a problem at all with the fact that the population were Orthodox or Catholic, as that would be irrelevant.Mesfushor (talk) 16:07, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not sure that you are right. Take look at Apollonia, Byllis, Sati, Moscopole, Oricum... None of this former populated places in Albania has article titled with Albanian language name, although those cities existed in Albania. All of them have either "the widely accepted historical English name" or "the modern local historical name". It is confusing that something is both modern and historical in the same time, but I think that emphasize is more on "local historical" than modern.

If you still don't agree with me after this explanation feel free to change the name to Balec.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 22:42, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am right. Apollonia, Byllis, Moscopole and Oricum have English sources whereas Balec has virtually no English sources, and it's for that case that you brought the policy, but you read it incorrectly, so the parallelism that you are drawing is impertinent. I actually have concerns that Sati as well has very few English sources, and that should be changed too. Mesfushor (talk) 01:01, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Baleč existed until 1448. In 1448 it has been destroyed and abandoned. It was populated by Serbs and its local historical name was name on Serbian language. You would be right when you say: local name is simply Albanian if this town has not been abandoned and destroyed in 1448. I think that articles about ancient cities that were not inhabited by Albanian speaking population and which existed before anything was written on Albanian language should not be titled with Albanian name just because their ruins are on the territory of Albania. Especially if there are no English sources supporting Albanian name.

I AGF in this case. If I did not convince you till now then you might be right. In that case please feel free to rename this article to Balec, I would support your move, unless somebody else convince me that I was right.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 07:09, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Moved to Balec since it seems like agreement was reached between editors.--Perkohesisht ai i vjetri (talk) 13:22, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

On the contrary. Mesfushor accepted my arguments and did not rename the article.--Antidiskriminator (talk) 14:21, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The historical location argument is completely valid. The article should be called Baleč. 23 editor (talk) 14:52, 12 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Rodrigo

Qual era o nome do povo que iniciou em balec E qual era sua religião Esse povo tem algum herói da epoca 2804:868:D049:C9DD:6122:F4B2:5BEA:E00C (talk) 11:59, 6 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]