Talk:Bowden cable

"Pushing"

Is it accurate to say that the cable can be used to transmit a pushing force? I'm unfamiliar with the camera mechanism used as an example, but for the bicycle shifter the derailleur spring is always pulling on the cable, so a "push" on the shifter is really just a relaxation of a counter-pull. Ross Hatton 17:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I have used a camera shutter release that uses a 'push' motion with such a cable. However, in working on many, many models of bikes I have never come across one that uses a 'push' cable. I think this reference was either incorrect or very obscure (either way it shouldn't be in the article) so I have removed it. -SCEhardT 02:50, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Frank Bowden

The short camera shutter releases that I am familiar with use a very tight-wound spring within a housing as a pushing agent, not a true "cable". The longer releases use air pressure through a hose. 65.19.217.117 (talk) 18:18, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

I have added the sentence, "Many light aircraft use a push/pull bowden cable for the throttle control, and here it is normal for the inner element to be solid wire, rather than a multi-strand cable". The photo "Bowden cables controlling and automobile throttle" is probably incorrectly described, as throttle closure would be done with a spring. Many motorcycles use separate cables to open and close the throttle, but each cable pulls only and does not push. The ability of a multi-strand cable to push is inherently limited. Arrivisto (talk) 17:13, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Early Shimano indexed bicycle gear shifting (the "Positron" system) briefly used a solid wire that both pushed and pulled the derailleur. The design was quickly replaced by the more reliable tensioned cable resisting a spring system familiar today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NextSibling (talk • contribs) 22:53, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

A model railway system my brother and I had in the early 60's used push/pull "cables" to operate switches (points). They consisted of a brass sheath with a steel wire core and enabled control of the various points (switches) from a central point. The sheath would tolerate limited and gentle curves but once installed required no further bending. So perhaps this doesn't count. John C Kay (talk) 20:42, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

My 1970 Rover 3500 V8 sedan used push pull cables for both the manual choke and the reserve gas tap. Both had rather stiff solid wire to make pushing feasible.2602:306:3A29:2B60:5417:6A4B:B2EA:E602 (talk) 02:26, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

Earnest Monnington Bowden

The inventor of the Bowden cable was Ernest Monnington Bowden (1860 to 1904), not Frank Bowden. Ernest filed the patent, No. 25,235 for the Bowden Cable on 11th November 1896. On 12th January 1900 he granted a license to The Raleigh Cycle Company of Nottingham whose directors were Frank Bowden and Edward Harlow. At this signing they became members of E. M. Bowdens Patent Syndicate Limited . Many other famous names were admitted to the syndicate to fully exploit the usefulness of this invention. eg. Messrs R H Lea & Graham I. Francis of Lea & Francis Ltd, and William Riley of the Riley Cycle Company etc. More than 30 companies in UK alone and 16 in Europe, many of which are commonly remembered to this day. -Mike robinson wales (Talk | contribs) 16:06, 16 November 2006 —Preceding unsigned comment added by AndrewDressel (talk • contribs) -Preceding unsigned comment added by SineBot (Talk | contribs) 21:00, 7 February 2008

Small Aircraft

Citation for Bowden cables in small aircraft: Diamond DA40D AFM (Manual) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.115.54.116 (talk) 18:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Other uses

Guitarist Lionel Loueke once used Bowden cables for guitar strings when he could not afford authentic strings.Dtaw2001 (talk) 17:05, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

In certain applications, bowdens are used to transmit torque. 188.36.161.198 (talk) 22:00, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

The only source I can find that explicitly says one way or the other on this tipic asserts that Bowden cables do not transmit torque or rotation. The author, however, does not give a generic name for cables that do transmit rotation or torque, such as speedometer or tachometer cables. Anyone have a better or conflicting source?

Nipples

The "chunks of metal" on the end of a Bowden cable which engage with the mechanism it operates are called nipples. If you do not believe me try googling for such things as bicycle brake cable nipple or bowden cable nipple. My use of the word is not prurient vandalism, it is the standard term for those objects. Indeed the same word is used to describe other similarly-shaped engineering items, such as grease nipples for applying grease and bleed nipples for bleeding hydraulic systems. It is unfortunate that this term lends itself to schoolboy sniggering but it is nevertheless the correct word for these items. Please do not revert my edits because you are unaware of this. 213.162.113.17 (talk) 01:21, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and googled it, and indeed it pulled up some hits. However I've never heard it used before (Is it perhaps British English?) and the one solid reference I have found (Barnet's) prefers "head". If no reference are put up I would propose changing it to "head", and if a good reference is found I'd like to put the both up.--Keithonearth (talk) 07:09, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

This usage of Nipple is correct, on one end of a choke cable is a nipple, on the other end where a knob with the choke symbol is screwed on to it is politely called Knob Pin, rather than a Knob End !

The wiktionary definition covers it - item 6 is the relevant one. It may be a British term, perhaps; google.co.uk is in no doubt, and the term has been used in patent applications (example) and parts catalogues (example). There is also a German word Kabelnippel = "cable nipple". It does seem hard to find a "dictionary" style reference but evidence that it is a thoroughly accepted term is abundant. 213.162.113.17 (talk) 04:52, 6 December 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.3.234 (talk)

'Nipple' in this context (and the others quoted) is universal and correct usage in the UK (eg hydraulic brake bleed nipples)

89.168.85.120 (talk) 19:04, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Adding new section 'Maintenance'

There's an interesting paragraph in Bicycle braking systems that discusses potential failure modes and maintenance requirements of Bowden cables. IMO it is much more applicable here so I'm going to move it here. Not sure about the new section title, though. Suggestions? Dmforcier (talk) 17:28, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

This article includes references to an unreliable source on this subject. Reference 6 links to Sheldon Brown’s description of How Cables Work in which he misuses Newton’s Third Law and thereby falsely describes the Bowden cable. References 11 and 12 lead to a retail site that currently includes further links to Brown’s ideas on bicycles (is that proper on Wiki?) I have found no written sources that I can cite for the Bowden cable to justify editing this page as Wiki disallows original work, but here is my original work in Talk instead.

A Bowden cable allows a remote device to be operated by a control that is easily accessible to the operator through a pull on an inner cable.  I will use a bicycle as an example.  When a brake lever is squeezed, the inner cable is moved as a unit toward the front of the bike where the brake lever is located.  This causes an arm on the brake to also be pulled in that direction, thereby causing the calipers to contact the wheel rim from both sides.  The brake mechanism includes a strong spring to pull the cable rearwards as the brake lever is released as well as maintain tension on the cable to avoid braking delays caused by a slack cable.  When fully released, the brake lever and calipers will be in their original positions with no breaking force, but generally with tension on the cable to keep the brake pads close to the rim.  The outer housing allows us to run a cable on the bike frame and handlebars without having it foul on the frame and go too slack or too tight (especially when the bars are turned!).  The housing minimizes transverse motion of the inner cable relative to the bike.  Clamps and/or loops hold the housing in place on the bike.  Where the inner cable can only move longitudinally (on straight cable runs), the housing can be omitted as is often done along the top and down tubes of a bike.

By Newton’s Third Law, when someone applies a force on an object, the object will place an equal and opposite force on that person. The person and the object are called an action reaction pair. (See virtually any university level beginning physics book). The inner cable is free to move inside the housing excluding any friction between the two (which should be minimized). The inner cable and the housing are NOT an action reaction pair. The inner cable becomes a part of 2 action reaction pairs. One pair is the brake lever and the cable. The other pair is the cable and a lever on the brake mechanism. The compression of the housing is only important in friction and maintenance issues. If friction is compressing the closely wound steel housing, you REALLY need more lubrication and/or a better housing installation! Between the brake and the most rearward housing clamp, the housing may move as the brake lever is squeezed, but this is a transverse motion due to the pivoting of the brake calipers. Mr. Brown’s ideas on Bowden cables and Newton’s third law are clearly wrong. Note that his claim that the “Inverted brake lever” involves moving the housing is also wrong (this claim is found within the links in ref 6). The inner cable still moves forward relative to the bike and housing when the brake lever is used in that set up. Meterdude (talk) 16:20, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Issue with definition

The introductory section includes this (emphasis mine): "...a hollow outer cable housing. The housing is generally of composite construction, consisting of a helical steel wire, ...".

This is too specific. Helical housing bodies are used for many modern low compressibility cables, but there are other types of construction, notably a bundle of untwisted solid wires running parallel to the inner cable, sandwiched between a lining and the outer sheath. And of course there are solid housings.

I recommend that any specificity be deferred to the section on housings in the body of the article. Dmforcier (talk) 17:55, 15 June 2010 (UTC)

'Parts and Variations' section

The 'parts and variations' section seems quite awkward, especially the section on 'ends'. The paragraphs seem to be a combination of bicycle and motor-vehicle information, with no separation between the two. As an experienced bicycle mechanic, I am familiar with much of the information, and admit my ignorance of the rest; however, the presentation of the information in this section is confusing. Also, the phrase "silver soldering" is inaccurate, more appropriately it is termed "silver brazing". 65.19.217.117 (talk) 18:18, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

The reverse construction

I have a 1950's toy helicopter which is powered by cranking a handle on a hand held unit, which is connected to the helicopter by a flexible 'cable' which transmits the rotation of the crank to the helicopter rotor. Due to the subtlety possible in varying the power it is possible to make the helicopter take off, hover, fly backwards and forwards (by twisting the hand held unit) and land - it really is great fun. The 'cable' consists of a stationary solid core wire, threaded through a spirally wound wire (like a long spring) WHICH ROTATES. ie it is the exact reverse of the Bowden Cable description in the article - it is the outer sheath that transmits the power and the inner that remains stationary. I get the impression this could transmit quite a lot of power, more than the spedometer cable version. Perhaps this variation is more widespread than my helicopter and ought to be mentioned?

89.168.85.120 (talk) 19:00, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Reverted mod to the definition.

The cable need not be "fixed at both ends". Whether housing or cable is moving or fixed depends on what other part of the mechanism you deem to be moving or fixed. Relative to a fixed frame there are applications where the housing "moves" while the cable stays "fixed".

In future, please discuss such a basic change before making it. Dmforcier (talk) 00:18, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Okay, I re-wrote the definition based upon my "Issues" section above. It may not be perfect, but it's much better. The second paragraph needs work too, but I don't have time right now. Dmforcier (talk)

Bowdens

Have I missed something? Were E.M. Bowden and F. Bowden related in any way, or is the surname just a coincidence? PhilUK (talk) 20:44, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

"Possible contribution by Larkin" section

The section with the heading "Possible contribution by Larkin" doesn't appear to actually add anything to the article itself. That's not to say that it isn't a curious historical footnote, but as the text itself states, the claim about Larkin supposedly inventing the cable mechanism is inaccurate. It is unlikely that anyone today still believes that claim, or is even still aware of its original existence, so I cannot think of any justification for its inclusion. Indeed, a Google search of "'bowden cable' + larkin" returns 44,000 hits, but "'bowden cable' + larkin -wikipedia" returns only 340, which strongly suggests that the only remembrance of Larkin's competing claim, is here, which gets dangerously close to original research. Bricology (talk) 18:32, 13 April 2019 (UTC)