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Talk:Breast tax

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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 sep 2023

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"Even women of other dominant castes like the Nairs had to keep their breasts bare in the presence of Brahmin men. Nair women had no right to hide their breasts in front of them. Brahmin women bare their breasts only in front of the deity in the temple. Before the arrival of Christian missionaries, it was common for women to go naked in Kerala in the 18th century."[1][2][3][4][5]

References

  1. ^ https://books.google.co.in/books?id=B_7sDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA49&dq=nair+breast+cloth+brahmin&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjs242ozY6BAxW8a2wGHWlNCtsQ6AF6BAgKEAM#v=onepage&q=nair%20breast%20cloth%20brahmin&f=false
  2. ^ https://books.google.co.in/books?id=FaFHDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA216&dq=nair+breast+cloth+brahmin&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjs242ozY6BAxW8a2wGHWlNCtsQ6AF6BAgFEAM#v=onepage&q=nair%20breast%20cloth%20brahmin&f=false
  3. ^ https://books.google.co.in/books?id=QU0gEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA139&dq=nair+breast+cloth+brahmin&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVlMvpz46BAxVITWwGHbEMDDE4ChDoAXoECAUQAw#v=onepage&q=nair%20breast%20cloth%20brahmin&f=false
  4. ^ https://books.google.co.in/books?id=HIRSEAAAQBAJ&pg=PA91&dq=nair+breast+cloth+brahmin&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiN4uLqz46BAxXTTmwGHQ1bCCo4FBDoAXoECAMQAw#v=onepage&q=nair%20breast%20cloth%20brahmin&f=false
  5. ^ https://books.google.co.in/books?id=RK__DwAAQBAJ&pg=PT47&dq=nayar+breast+cloth+brahmin&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwidluyI3o6BAxXtUGwGHdfTAik4FBDoAXoECAkQAw#v=onepage&q=nayar%20breast%20cloth%20brahmin&f=false

Travancore breast tax is also a history recorded in all related books. Would you add this peragragh at the top of this page? @ChandlerMinh:, @Joshua Jonathan: Drawings provide man (talk) 14:20, 3 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article already states that "covering the breasts was not the norm in Kerala's matrilineal society during Nangeli's life-span." Your statement "it was common for women to go naked in Kerala in the 18th century" seems hihly unlikely to me; you probably mean "half-naked." Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:09, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Analyze the references I have provided. Because all the sources I have given are very clear - that Nair women should not forget breast in front of Brahmin. I don't understand why you pretend not to see it. It should be added to this page. It is true that women did not cover their breasts in the 18th century because it was common for all women who were not prostitutes to have open breasts.Reference[1] Irrespective of the caste, the society of that time wore it as a harlot if it was covered - check this in detail in the references I have given above.Drawings provide man (talk) 07:24, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
See this - "The Nayar women in Travancore were allowed to dress as they pleased by a Royal Proclamation in 1865." Are you explaining that you did not see this?SourceDrawings provide man (talk) 07:28, 5 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://books.google.co.in/books?id=eF-pMrcqw5UC&pg=PA198&dq=malabar+women+breast+cloth&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved= 2ahUKEwiF36Dq_pKBAxUsSGwGHQB8DpMQ6AF6BAgEEAM#v=onepage&q=malabar%20women% 20breast%20cloth&f=false

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 13 November 2023

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In the section "Head tax", there is "Kingdom of Kingdom of Travancore". One "Kingdom of" too much in my opinion. MacGyver (talk) 07:00, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Check. Joshua Jonathan - Let's talk! 07:07, 13 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 January 2024

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The "breast tax" (mulakkaram or mula-karam in Malayalam) was a head tax

The "head tax" (Tala-karam or Talakkaram in Malayalam) was a head tax 2409:40E5:16:B893:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 15:43, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: It's not clear what you're suggesting should be changed in an article about the breast tax. —C.Fred (talk) 15:49, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In a ==Head tax== section
Change this - The "breast tax" (mulakkaram or mula-karam in Malayalam) was a head tax
To this - The "head tax" (Tala-karam or Talakkaram in Malayalam) was a head tax 2409:40E5:16:B893:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 15:53, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
please check carefully 2409:40E5:16:B893:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 15:54, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reference: https://theprint.in/pageturner/excerpt/nangeli-the-forgotten-dalit-woman-who-stood-up-against-travancores-breast-tax/862452/ 2409:40E5:16:B893:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 15:50, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Based on that source, the article is correct as is. —C.Fred (talk) 15:52, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Again, based on that source, there were two separate per-capita taxes: mulakkaram, or breast tax, levied on women, and talakkaram, or head tax, levied on men. —C.Fred (talk) 15:56, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
yes your are right 👍
But in the article perticuly in a In a ==Head tax== section, there is error - The "breast tax" (mulakkaram or mula-karam in Malayalam) was a head tax, it should be The "head tax" (Tala-karam or Talakkaram in Malayalam) was a head tax. 2409:40E5:16:B893:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 16:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
2409:40E5:16:B893:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 16:00, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Technically the breast tax was a fee to allow women in certain castes to wear clothing on their upper bodies, but constructively it was a per-capita tax, also known as a head tax. —C.Fred (talk) 16:05, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would be better to add or edit/ change for clear details knowledge. 2409:40E5:16:B893:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 16:09, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See section below, where I've asked for input from more editors. —C.Fred (talk) 16:16, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed change: "Head tax" to "Poll tax"

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Is there anything to be gained by changing the section "Head tax" to "Poll tax" and making the following edit?

The "breast tax" (mulakkaram or mula-karam in Malayalam) was a head poll tax imposed on the Nadars…

Looking for wider input than the one IP above. —C.Fred (talk) 16:16, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consider enhancing clarity in the ==Head tax== section by revising 'The "breast tax" (mulakkaram or mula-karam in Malayalam) was a head tax' to 'The "head tax" (Tala-karam or Talakkaram in Malayalam) was a distinct form of head tax.' Thank you for your attention to detail!
"A general tax was levied on men called Talakkaram, literally ‘head tax’; Mulakkaram literally means ‘breast tax’." 2409:40E5:16:B893:8000:0:0:0 (talk) 16:30, 24 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Who used to pay Mulakkaram to the government for the female labourers - the labourers who were paid in kind and had no money, or the feudal landlord who had money ?

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To pay tax, one should have money. It is common knowledge that labourers in medieval times were not paid wages as money. There weren't enough coins minted to pay money to everyone. The labourers were paid wages in the form of food and clothing. How, then would they pay these taxes ? Only the rich could pay taxes. Talakkaram was the tax that the feudal lord paid the King on the basis of number of his male labourers and Mulakkaram was the tax based on the number of female labourers. A person who paid more than five rupees was eligible to vote. 103.70.199.220 (talk) 12:36, 23 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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