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Talk:Budae-jjigae

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Johnson Tang (존슨탕), Lyndon B. Johnson soup.

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Lyndon B. Johnson soup. what mean? Lyndon B. Johnson is very famous in korea?Firefox001 04:55, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Johnson was the U.S. president responsible for escalating the Vietnam war into an international "Police Action". U.S. military bases in Korea were heavily utilized for the staging of U.S. troops, and Korean military were mobilized to fight in Vietnam. The Korean economy was still in a very bad state at the time, and the veritable flood of food that arrived with the influx of American troops was a much appreciated boost to the Korean diet. Korean history in the 20th century is a fascinating and complex subject that requires good understanding of Pan-Asian political history and the impact of U.S. involvement in the region. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.215.115.31 (talk) 18:34, 10 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Recipe belongs in Wikibooks

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What the etiquette about moving it? Boy in the bands (talk) 14:59, 26 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject Food and drink Tagging

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This article talk page was automatically added with {{WikiProject Food and drink}} banner as it falls under Category:Food or one of its subcategories. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging here . Maximum and careful attention was done to avoid any wrongly tagging any categories , but mistakes may happen... If you have concerns , please inform on the project talk page -- TinucherianBot (talk) 21:46, 3 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Reads like a tour guide

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I swear part of this article reads like it was directly copied from someone's travel blog or something. It is not academic in style and needs a rework.

--Heero Kirashami (talk) 06:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Did you know nomination

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: rejected by reviewer, closed by Narutolovehinata5 (talk) 13:52, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not a 5x expansion and also not eligible due to a high copyvio score.

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  • ... that some older South Koreans avoid the dish budae-jjigae because it reminds them of the Korean War? Source: [1]
    • Reviewed:

5x expanded by Toobigtokale (talk). Self-nominated at 20:50, 25 July 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Budae-jjigae; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.[reply]

  • Drive-by comment Might I also suggest:
ALT1 ... that the Korean stew budae-jjigae commonly includes baked beans, Spam, corn, and American cheese? Source: It features Neoguri instant ramen noodles, pork stock, kimchi, rice cakes, Spam, and Kirkland Signature-brand hot dogs, mozzarella, and American cheese. [2] and 부대찌개 만드는 법은 여러 종류의 햄과 소시지를 큼직하고 썰고 통조림 콩, 잘 익은 김치, 양념 돼지고기, 고추, 애호박, 팽이버섯, 파 등을 썰어 준비한 후 냄비에 참기름을 두르고 돼지고기를 달달 볶는다. 사골육수나 닭육수를 부어 끓이다가 돼지고기가 익으면 다진 김치, 콘, 소시지, 스팸, 프랑크소시지, 애호박, 두부 등을 넣어 끓인다. translating to To make budae-jjigae, cut a variety of ham and sausages into large pieces, then add canned beans, sour kimchi, marinated pork, red pepper, zucchini, enoki mushroom, and green onion, then stir-fry the pork in a pan with sesame oil. Add beef bone broth or chicken broth and boil, and when the pork is cooked, add minced kimchi, corn, sausage, spam, frankfurters, zucchini, and tofu. [3]
:3 F4U (they/it) 02:10, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

More info

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Hi, I expanded the article a good chunk, but I think there's potential for more work. I'm currently in the US but I suspect there's Korean language books that have more info on the dish. I think I've exhausted most of what Google had to offer in English and Korean. I've also gone through lots of academic articles in both English and Korean and lots of books in English. Books in Korean are the only thing that I didn't have access to. toobigtokale (talk) 09:05, 31 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

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Passed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:03, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Budae-jjigae/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 19:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]


Comments

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I'll have a go at this one, an interesting article and a curious dish. Oddly reminiscent of the hybrid character of England's unofficial national dish, Chicken tikka masala ... Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:24, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, will get on the comments :) toobigtokale (talk) 20:08, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Minor issues:

  • Please delete the word "also" wherever it occurs. It doesn't do anything useful.
  • Hmm.. I pruned a bunch of the "also"s but the ones I've left I've hesitated on. I imply "in addition to" in these uses, which is needed for the ideas I'm expressing. E.g. The Busan variant of the dish also led to the development of dwaeji-gukbap, a pork-based rice dish. The Busan variant led to both budae-jjigae and dwaeji-gukbap in parallel, if I deleted "also" I read that as possibly implying it only led to dwaeji-gukbap, likely as a stepping stone to budae jjigae (as earlier in the para i imply dwaeji is a predecessor to budae). "Also" concisely eliminates that possibility toobigtokale (talk) 03:09, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Name:

  • "means a soup thicker than guk (soup)" --- perhaps "has a thicker consistency than guk (soup)".
  • Hmmm it'd become Jjigae (찌개) has a thicker consistency than guk (soup). Bit hesitant on this one; I'd rather the reader is told upfront what it generally is and then adjust the idea, rather than have them derive it relative to something else. I want to hear your thoughts though toobigtokale (talk) 02:23, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
A soup thicker than soup makes no sense. Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:21, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
done toobigtokale (talk) 09:59, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Description:

  • Wikilink kimchi, and perhaps also gloss it as "fermented vegetables" or some such.
  • Perhaps explain "instant noodle powder" for the uninitiated reader: is this as plain as it sounds, like rice flour, or is it a spicy and salty additive?
No, there are any number of readers who've never geard if the stuff, that's what Wikipedia is for. If you think everyone knows, why are you writing? Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:24, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
?? I'm writing on a more developed niche topic using concepts that are more familiar to a lot of people. If anything I should explain what baked beans are too; I'm very confident more people in the world have had instant ramen than baked beans.
I'll explain it anyway though toobigtokale (talk) 09:53, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Maybe gloss gochujang, mandu, minari as "red chili paste", "dumplings", "water celery", or similar.

"Some opt to exclude ... also exist." --- Should this not be moved to "Variants"?

Preparation:

  • This is currently written as instructions to the reader, contrary to Wikipedia's NOTHOWTO rules. Please reword to be descriptive not prescriptive, e.g. you might begin "The dish is based on a stock, which can be either vegan or ..." and go on in the same style.
  • "the dish is normally ordered with base ingredients" => "the dish is normally served only with base ingredients"
Suggest: ... base ingredients; more can be ... Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:33, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
done toobigtokale (talk) 09:59, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Variants:

  • "in preprepared kits." => "in kits."
  • "ramen noodles are not added". They haven't been mentioned until now, so we didn't know they were added in any case. Maybe mention and wikilink them in "Description"? Perhaps also gloss them as "wheat noodles", not just "noodles".
  • I'd argue no need to gloss; instant ramen is eaten or known of very widely (especially by people who have access to the internet and wikipedia). I think cultures that are unfamiliar with instant ramen would need many western food names glossed too toobigtokale (talk) 02:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Minimum is wikilink. Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:31, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Done toobigtokale (talk) 09:54, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • What is special about "Carter-tang"?
If there aren't reliable sources then remove it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:30, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Hmm... I mean we know it exists, there just isn't a detailed description of it. It's mentioned in virtually every article about Budae-jjigae, along with Johnson-tang. I'll remove it anyway, but people who are familiar with budae-jjigae in Korea will notice it's missing. toobigtokale (talk) 10:01, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Kkulkkuri-juk:

  • "more mild" => "milder"
  • Is "Jeong Jung-yun" the same guy as "Jeon Jung-yun" already introduced and redlinked, and then referred to simply as "Jeong"?
Should be Jeong only then. Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:28, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
? There's only "Jeon"; there's a "Jeong" in the cultural legacy section but with a different given name, is this who you're referring to? toobigtokale (talk) 10:00, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I assume you have this correct now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:02, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Development of budae-jjigae:

  • Who is Yang Minho? Maybe gloss as "the scholar Yang Minho" or "the war historian" or some such.
Do say so, and wikilink. Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:27, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
done toobigtokale (talk) 09:54, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Recent history:

  • "Uijeongbu Budae-jjigae Street [ko]" --- it seems surprising to Western ears to hear the name of the city as part of the street name (we just say "Wall Street" or "Oxford Street"...). Consider using the "|lt=Budae-jiigae Street" parameter to suppress the repetition of the city name in the inter-language link.
  • It's a bit rare in Korea too 😅 I'm a bit on the fence on this one; it's the official name of the street and I don't have any quick ideas on how to explain it to the reader concisely otherwise. toobigtokale (talk) 02:48, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural legacy:

  • Who is Grace M. Cho?
  • The discussion of Uijeongbu city's dish and street overlaps with the discussion in "Recent history". Could we merge the two instances? I'd suggest we do that here in "Cultural legacy".
  • Who is Christina Klein?
  • "One chef contended ... She pointed out ..." --- If we're going to say it's a She, we'd best give her a name, i.e. "The chef Park Chan-il contended ... She ..."

See also:

  • not sure all these items are really needed here. Why "Fusion cuisine"? Why "Food and drink prohibitions"? Why "han (cultural)"? As for the Economy and List of US Army installations... surely those should either be linked in the main text or removed.

Notes:

  • What is the point of Note 1? The variations are so minor I'd have thought we could just forget the differences really.
  • What is the point of Note 2?

References:

  • You use "Last, First" for authors, which is great ... but [50] "Service, Korean Culture and Information" is wrong, it's not Mr K.C.I. Service, is it...
  • I tried several spot-checks on the citations, and they were all appropriate.

Categories:

  • "Culture of Gyeonggi Province" --- I see that Uijeongbu is in that province, but it's not stated anywhere in the article. Might be worth mentioning.
Nothing should exist only in the lead, as it's only a summary. Chiswick Chap (talk) 04:26, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
done toobigtokale (talk) 09:55, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Images

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  • I'm not convinced the Pro-democracy protests image is justified here, as it's at best tangential to the article, and not directly mentioned in the text.
  • The other images are appropriate for the article, and seem to be properly licensed on Commons.

Summary

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Well, this is an interesting and well-cited article, and there's really very little wrong with it. I hope to see it at GA very soon. Chiswick Chap (talk) 20:47, 21 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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