Talk:Charles King Van Riper

Unreliable sources tag

@Graywalls: There is a question regarding Unreliable sources: William G. Contento (December 29, 2023). "The FictionMags Index". I can remove this citation if like. The only reason I put it there is that it provides a list of short stories written by Charles King Van Riper from 1910s-1930s. It includes the title of the story and the magazine it was published in and the date. This is an important list of short stories, compiled by a host of contributors who have supplied data. Each of the entries in the list is also listed in the Selected Works section, which has there own citation. Please update me on the best thing to do to remove this tag? Once removed, please update the tag. Greg Henderson (talk) 18:37, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

As addressed in other articles, why are you only concerned after the tag appeared rather than taking care to not introduce poor quality sources in the first place? Graywalls (talk) 21:39, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Tag removal is not my main concern. I am really trying to understand what is good and what is bad sourcing. I have no problem with removing the primary source as a unreliable source. Greg Henderson (talk) 22:10, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

The thing is, you do understand and even when you've been made aware, you haven't taken care of these blog sourced contents. I believe you're aware enough to not need me to have to spell out source by source, article by article. Graywalls (talk) 22:37, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Yes, I am in the process of doing so. Please give me time to remove all instances of blogs, etc. Greg Henderson (talk) 22:44, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Just cleaned up 5 articles with blogs! Greg Henderson (talk) 22:51, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Not really. You simply stripped the blog links from five articles in five minutes without changing contents. This tells me the blog link was inserted to promote the blog, or you didn't review all the other grouped sources to selectively remove contents written based on blogs. Graywalls (talk) 23:19, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Exaggerated claim of importance

@Greghenderson2006:, you wrote The Van Ryper ship models proved cost-effective for the government, as they helped in verfiying the accuracy of design, arrangements of naval deck fixtures, and alignment of various machinery components for larger ship constructions, after having consulted the source, I fail to locate how this is directly supported. Please provide the quotation and how it directly, without your imaginative interpretation directly supports the claim it proved cost effective. With the AfD in progress right now, it's imperative that importance is not exaggerated as it can cause someone glancing through to form an incorrect impression. Graywalls (talk) 05:37, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@Graywalls: The exact quote is the folowing:

It is impossible to estimate the money saved in the construction of large ships by use of these ship models to check accuracy of design, arrangements of deck furniture and the lead of various parts of machinery. The article goes on to list the benefits.

• Reason it proved cost effective:

The models proved cost effective because they saved the U.S. government in the construction of large ship as they could verify the (a) accuracy of design, (b) arrangements of deck furniture, (c) lead time of various parts of machinery.

• Perhaps it would be better reworded to say:

The Van Ryper ship models were cost effective for the U.S. government during the construction of large ship as they were used to verify the accuracy of design, arrangements of naval deck fixtures, and alignment of various machinery components. Greg Henderson (talk) 16:07, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

@Greghenderson2006:, please see this. Thanks. Graywalls (talk) 00:24, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I am failing to see how the source directly supports the statement you're making. The source talks about two different model builders. They're not just talking about Van Riper's. Some of what's said is about model usage in general, not about specific government contractor's contract. Graywalls (talk) 00:26, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

I understand your point. So, perhaps we can just say:

For the models built under government contract, maritime men working for the government were responsible for inspecting these models to ensure accuracy during the building of the minature shipyards.. Greg Henderson (talk) 01:43, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Gallery

@Graywalls: I have noticed that you have deleted images from the gallery that I have posted. Just trying to understand this better from your perspective. The last image you removed were: File:Charles King Van Riper.jpg|right|Charles King Van Riper's former House, and you said: "This image doesn't serve any purpose in helping with the understanding of contents." My question is, doesn't it help the reader to see the actual area where he lived in Carmel, the house and its connection to Van Riper is important information. You have also deleted pictures of him acting at the Forest Theater, a magazine title with his name, and an ad for a play that he wrote, which gives him credit. If these images do not serve any purpose in helping to understand the contents, then what in your mind would? Greg Henderson (talk) 15:47, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

Ask yourself what additional knowledge you gain or how it betters your understanding of the article with a picture of gate to his house, or even his house. It's not a magazine article. For example, Tina Fey does not have a picture of her Subaru Forester nor would adding it be informative. Graywalls (talk) 07:37, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Thanks, this helps! Greg Henderson (talk) 15:51, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Reliable sources

@Graywalls: The below deleted text from the article originates from a WP:RS, namely Martha’s Vineyard Museum. The presence of a Van Riper on the board does not negate the validity of the statement found here.

Van Riper's business model was based on two fundamental concepts. The first involved producing scale models of contemporary liners like the The SS Drottningholm, built for the Allan Line, could be made in batches of 20 to 24 models using a scaled-down version of the mass production. The second idea was that these models didn't need to replicate every detail of the vessel to be visually appealing. The outcome was an attractive model priced within the means of middle-clas buyers. Greg Henderson (talk) 19:48, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

It's considered a group blog and doesn't even have the author, meaning it could have been written by an intern. It shows no editorial process, again pushing it towards blogginess territory. Greg, many of your articles have been tagged for having excessive level of minute details. Such is even more true as the subject starts to branch away from what the article is about and relies in relatively weak sources.

Here, we're talking about details about Van Riper's business' products, in a biography article. Graywalls (talk) 23:32, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

References

USS Leviathan

This was one of the most famous ocean liners of its time. It's naming was connected to Charles King Van Riper. See top of page 120 in World's greatest ship: the story of the Leviathan -- GreenC 06:18, 24 January 2024 (UTC)

@GreenC:Thanks, I've added the text about the USS Leviathan and citation to the article as an example of one of the models Van Riper produced. Greg Henderson (talk) 00:17, 25 January 2024 (UTC)

I checked Ebay etc and there is a market for Van Ryper's models still active today. -- GreenC 16:37, 26 January 2024 (UTC)