Talk:Christoph Waltz/Archive 1
 | This is an archive of past discussions about Christoph Waltz. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
| Archive 1 |
Waltz not Jewish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-VANGMPd3c&feature=related
See the youtube link attached: at marker 5:20 Eli Roth, who was in Inglorious Basterds with Waltz, explains that Waltz is not a Jew. Roth then goes on to say that Waltz knows more about Judaism than anyone he knows, Waltz's son is studying to be a rabbi in Israel, he spent Yom Kippur with Waltz at his parents' house, however Waltz is not actually Jewish. I think this should be corrected to reflect Eli Roth's comments. - AJK
AJoeKid (talk) 06:50, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
Der Humpink
Shouldn't it be mentioned in the filmography that it's just a parody of this clip? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oavMtUWDBTM&feature=player_embedded#! 91.33.203.213 (talk) 15:56, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Picture
We need a photo of him!! An evil-looking one (badass) preferably.88.196.229.39 (talk) 14:26, 7 October 2008 (UTC)
Find one that isn't copyrighted and can be used in the public domain. XSachertortex (talk) 06:16, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
French?
I see that it is written that Waltz is fluent in French, with a reference to an online article saying he is so. But I have discovered a video of the Inglorious Basterds cast including him on the French show Le Grand Journal, and he requires an earpiece to translate the French hosts and he only speaks back in English. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzzQg2GBvr0&feature=related Fast forward to the 6:30 mark to see his ear piece and clear response to a French question in English. This really refutes him being described on Wikipedia as fluent in French. Any comments please? --98.154.46.211 (talk) 09:01, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Using the earpiece and replying in English, when his other co-stars were doing likewise, is not proof that he isn't fluent in French. If you caught the clip of him at the Oscar Nominee Luncheon, he demonstrated his language prowess where he started in German (native language), then switched back and forth between English (2nd language) to answer a question. He would often continue the answer in German or English, then have to stop and translate, continuing the answer on, then stopping and translating. I expect that it was easier for him, if he was conversing the entire day with the English-speaking cast members, to just hear and answer in English as opposed to flip-flopping languages constantly through the day, and since his colleagues were making no effort to speak French, he did not feel a need to either. He has made at least one French-speaking production in his IMDB resume also. XSachertortex (talk) 06:24, 31 December 2010 (UTC)
Filmography
Why is his filmography so short? The german article lists far more movies —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.1.189.201 (talk) 14:23, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
He has nearly 100 credits in TV and in film. This should be a priority for anyone updating the page. 108.117.83.146 (talk) 06:12, 31 December 2010 (UTC) Sachertorte
Panni is still unconfirmed and he is currently filming Carnage as of 25 Feb. 2011. It is not in Pre-production. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.88.148 (talk) 02:32, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
Please don't write that his name is pronounced
vults. Because, really, it is not.--24.85.68.231 (talk) 11:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
Why not? From my point of view that is the closest you can without using IPA. 81.10.188.70 (talk) 12:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Actually, it'd be vahltz 173.55.109.150 (talk) 09:38, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
- No it wouldn't be. It's a short 'a' in Waltz, not a long one. Vults is as close as it gets. --Feuerrabe (talk) 17:30, 8 March 2010 (UTC)
It's valts in IPA, VULTS in English respell. Penelope Cruz didn't say it correctly yesterday. Halle Berry did at the Golden Globes. You can listen to it here: http://www.forvo.com/word/christoph_waltz#de --85.181.231.238 (talk) 12:12, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
There's a film clip of him introducing himself in Cannes, he says, "I'm Christoph Waltz." and he says it like the dance. In German he says Vults, in English it's Waltz. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBx2gw0pqx0 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.88.148 (talk) 14:43, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
Regarding the "did not associate with Jewish cast members"
I deleted this as it's false. Waltz did not associate with *any* cast members off of the set of Inglourious Basterds. This was due to Quentin Tarantino advising him that he wanted to catch the entire cast in surprise as to Christoph's capabilities and get their real reactions to his character. It had absolutely nothing to do with becoming immersed into Hans Landa's charter and, in interviews, he joked that while everyone went out and had a good time he was back at his hotel drinking alone.
You can see the "real reactions" to Christoph especially in the "Fake Italian" scene. For much of the cast, this was their first time working with Christoph, and the glances between Omar Doom and Eli Roth were taken at the first time they heard him speak perfect Italian. 24.3.88.148 (talk) 13:29, 27 June 2011 (UTC)Sachertorte
Pending vs. nominated
Can someone explain the edit war going on right now regarding "pending" vs. "nominated" for the 2013 Academy Awards? The nominations have been announced.[1] What does "pending" mean in this context, anyway? Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 19:12, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Typically, "nominated" is used to indicate that a person was nominated, but did not win. "Pending" is typically used to indicate that a person was nominated, but it has not yet been determined or revealed whether or not the person won. For Django, the Academy Award, BAFTA, and Golden Globe awards have not been decided or announced yet, so they should be listed as "pending". A lot of pages, (like this one) put the "result" in a different column and use the pink/green/beige colour coding for nominated/won/pending. 99.192.88.237 (talk) 22:25, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
- Ok, that makes sense. Thanks, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 01:25, 15 January 2013 (UTC)
GA Review
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| Reviewing |
- This review is transcluded from Talk:Christoph Waltz/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Reviewer: Retrolord (talk · contribs) 10:49, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Article is now on hold. Thanks! ★★RetroLord★★ 11:18, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
As there has been no action on the comments the article has been failed. Please renominate once you have addressed them. ★★RetroLord★★ 22:25, 8 March 2013 (UTC)
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2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline. | |
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I'm a bit worried that the article goes into nowhere near enough depth regarding his personal life, or his acting career wit the exception of Django and playing Hans Landa. Even 80% of the lead seems dedicated to just these two films. Please address this.
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"One of his sons is an Orthodox Jew studying in a Yeshiva in Israel (Waltz's first wife was Jewish)" I dont see how this is relevant? The article goes into no detail regarding his other sons, and the only detail provided on this son is what he is stuying. Seems like it is being used to push a POV, but ill look into it further
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Wife/Spouse
The article's Personal Life section says his wife is Jackie and another wife Judith, but the infobox says his wife is Ellie Milne. Now, is he married to 3 people? Or has he divorced one of them, two of them, or probably all three of them? If not, who is he currently married to? Has he divorced anyone at all? Is he married to all 3 of them? The marital status is ambiguous. If someone can answer my question, I can go ahead and make edits. Thank you. D437 (talk) 21:48, 10 November 2014 (UTC)
wrong pic
Isn't that Stephen Rea? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.112.151.98 (talk) 21:37, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
- No, it's Christoph Waltz. --Catgut (talk) 13:55, 22 January 2010 (UTC)
- At least one of the photos is wrong! I am assuming it is the middle one without the beard. Certainly, it is not possible that he both had a beard and had no beard at the same event. Manolan1 (talk) 13:37, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
nationality
He is NOT German! He said too many times he is Austrian, he grew up in Austria, he does not have German passport, in EU there are no passports needed and he entered the US with his Austrian citizenship and passport. This should solve all insinuations that he has something to do with Germany.DemonX (talk) 21:54, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
He's a German. Fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.252.125.113 (talk) 19:59, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
I don't know who's always changing it, but the source 1 explains that he does NOT have Austrian citizenship. You can change it back the day he actually receives the Austrian citizenship. Until then he only has German citizenship and is therefore German. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.49.134.238 (talk) 16:35, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
He has now been granted honorary Austrian citizenship therefore his nationality is no longer in dispute.
108.117.83.146 (talk) 06:10, 31 December 2010 (UTC) Sachertorte
Is there a reference to him holding a US Greencard? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.3.88.148 (talk) 21:17, 1 March 2011 (UTC)
Christoph Waltz`s accent is Austrian, he was born in Vienna, he grew up there, studied there, etc. there is nothing really German about him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.117.80.252 (talk) 21:35, 6 September 2012 (UTC)
- "othing really German about him", exept his passport (ok now he has both, but until 201o he only had the german one)178.210.114.106 (talk) 18:47, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
He now declared a few times, that he don't want to be seen or called German. He also said a few times, that he is Austrian and also want to be called an Austrian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.255.18.128 (talk) 15:19, 20 February 2013 (UTC)
- If you want Waltz then you have to take Hitler too! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.192.36.170 (talk) 20:47, 26 May 2013 (UTC)
- which does not change the fact that until 2010 he was German citizen only and since 2010 he is German and Austrian citizen both46.5.184.215 (talk) 11:31, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
After Christoph Waltz repeatedly has declared he is Austrian and at the same time has denied being German, it seems even the German media now refers to him as an "Austrian actor". In my opinion the wording that fits best with this situation is the formulation that was found in Daniel Day-Lewis case. He has citizenships of both Ireland and Britain, but is considered a British only. So my suggestion for Christoph Waltz is: "Christoph Waltz is an Austrian actor with both Austrian and German citizenship."
If CW wouldn't have rejected the fact that he is German, the current wording "Austrian-German" would be perfect i think. But since the German citizenship apparently is just another passport for him, the article should mirror this reality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.178.43.223 (talk) 19:10, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
- Daniel Day-Lewis is currently described as "an English actor with both British and Irish citizenship" with ongoing edits. Waltz' German passport is not just another one, but the only one he had for over 50 years - he never bothered to apply for the Austrian one until it was offered to him after his first Oscar.
- What the article currently misses, even though it has an extra paragraph just about his Nationality: the fact that he was a German citizen being unknown to the public until 2010 and that he took on the Austrian citizenship as late as that as a result of the medial and political campaign that was triggered when this fact emerged due to investigations by journalists.
- Also, the current section is misleading: "Waltz received Austrian citizenship in 2010 thus holding citizenships of both Austria and Germany, but considers his German passport a "legal, citizenship law banality""
- The order of the clauses suggests that this interview was made after he got the Austrian citizenship, while in reality it happened at a time when he only had the German one. Also, it chooses to reword a single sentence quote of him and alters it. In the original he talks about him "also" getting the Austrian passport in the then near future, while his "also" having had a German passport was a legal banality (not the passport itself). It seems this was deliberately dropped according to the view of the author. This should either be fixed, removed or simply be replaced by his full quote instead of a Wikipedia interpretation. 91.61.103.108 (talk) 02:45, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
⇒The German media refers to him as Austrian-German: ARD Tagesschau → [2]; Süddeutsche Zeitung → [3]; Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung → [4]; Die Zeit → [5]; Die Welt → [6]; Focus → [7]; Handelsblatt → [8]; Bild → [9]; Bunte → [10]; n-tv → [11]; Vogue → [12].
Nationality: Waltz is a German national by birth, born in Vienna, Austria - who lives in Berlin, and who also received Austrian citizenship a couple of years ago.
Ethnicity: His father, Johannes Waltz, is German - his mother Austrian.
What Mr. Waltz has to say, or that he pretendet to be Austrian, doesn't really matter that much. If tomorrow he told us he was Korean, it still wasn't going to change the fact that he is German by birth and only received Austrian citizenship in 2010. So, for ca. 54 years he was a German national only, who now also holds Austrian citizenship for ca. 2-3 years. Ethnically he's half German - half Austrian. Hard, bold facts - nothing else.
I think some of the IP's here are a bit confused of what exactly belongs into the lead → 3.1. "In most modern-day cases this will mean the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident". Waltz is a citizen of both, Germany and Austria. The latter only for ca. 2-3 years. Waltz was born a German national. Waltz is a permanent resident of Berlin, Germany.
"Nationality: is the legal relationship between an individual human and a Nation state. Nationality normally confers some protection of the individual by the state, and some obligations on the individual towards the state." In Waltzs' case, for the first 54 years of his life, this Nation state was solely the state of Germany. Waltz did, for example, not have the right to participate in the political life of Austria, such as by voting or standing for election. --IIIraute (talk) 03:22, 26 February 2013 (UTC) ⇐
Waltz has apparently said his not having an Austrian passport (and a German one instead; this being before politicians asked him to become Austrian) is some sort of banality. Voting in national elections in the country you consider your own is certainly not a banality. I always assumed you can only vote in national elections in Austria if you are an Austrian citizen. Am I mistaken or does Waltz consider his inability to vote for the Austrian parliament a banality? --195.242.152.37 (talk) 12:54, 9 July 2014 (UTC)
As EU-citicen he can vote in the country he is living. If he has a french passport, but lives in Italy he can vote in Italy and France on national and municipal level. So: if he would live in Austria with a german passport, he could vote in Austria on national and municipal level (except in Vienna, because Vienna is not only a city, but also one of the nine states (Bundesländer)) But he has the austrian citicenship now, so this is irrelevant. --213.47.225.145 (talk) 14:19, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
D/M/Y?
Considering that Waltz is German-Austrian, shouldn't we be using DMY for dates instead of MDY?--Sunshineisles2 (talk) 01:09, 29 July 2015 (UTC)
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name
Is his name Christopher or Christoph? It's listed as both with no explanation. Pw33n (talk) 02:01, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
- It's Christoph but since the name "Christopher" is much more common in English speaking countries this mistake seems to happen a lot.
Christoph BanAserfg (talk) 06:12, 1 April 2017 (UTC)
Slovenian heritage
Resolved discussion of how to handle Waltz' Slovenian heritage
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In this edit, @Max9844419087: has restored content claiming Slovenian heritage for Waltz, based on the fact that his great-great-grandfather was born in Slovenia. I believe this is a thin claim to heritage and is not relevant to this article. Since user Max98... has reverted my removal of this material, I invite them, and all other interested editors, to discuss the matter here. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 16:28, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
@WikiDan61 As regards Josip Belusic, my purpose was filling the article, by providing some valuable information and insights over the geopolitical situation in his time. Again, the main purpose was filling the article, if you are telling me that my work was meaningless, then it's fine, I will know better next time (it doesn't really matter to me whether Josip Belusic's article is or is not a stub. By the way, the reason why I spent 4 hours editing it in the first place was because you asked me to do so). As regards your good faith policy, do you really assume that every person who starts off on Wikipedia read all your manuals? In any case, I wasn't given the link you provided me before. As regards Chris Waltz: if I do understand you rejection of my article on Belusic (because I do understand the information provided is truthful but not strictly relevant, as its purpose was filling) I do not understand and absolutely oppose your undoing Waltz's Slovenian roots. Like I said: I provided you with a link to the Austrian humanities, you can further verify at you expenses all the links which bring up to Walt'z great-grandfather and his cousin, who was one of the greatest Slovenian authors, by creating an account on some genealogy website or going to the archives in Vienna (which I did, for other reasons of course), but again, all those links are established through other articles on Wikipedia. The fact that he is Slovenian IS important, especially because he is related to one of Slovenia's greatest poets (what I'm saying is: his relative has literally contributed to the birth of Slovenian literature and the establishment of the Slovenian language in its modern form. The poet from whom she was inspired--Preseren--might well be called 'Slovenia's Shakespeare,' or Slovenia's Dante; while Turnograjska herself (Walt'z reltive) is to Slovenia what Vittoria Colonna is to Italy. In Slovenia, there is not a more Slovenian family than the Urbancic). There are just so many articles (all actors' articles) which claim ethnicity with much, much thinner evidence and degree. So because I believe in Justitia, you would have to go and undo each and every of those before undoing Waltz's. For the record, I'm an Italian of Scottish and Dutch descent, and I have no Slovenian ties or ancestors whatsoever. Max9844419087 (talk) 17:23, 19 August 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Max9844419087 (talk • contribs) 17:14, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
@@WikiDan61 As regards discussing other topics, I do perfectly understand your formalism; why, this is your world, perhaps even your life, and you are either in charge or in a way more advanced position than I do here. But please understand that I'm a new user. Now please, let us address the fact that you overlooked my urge to Justice. There are so many (really, 90%) other articles which report ethnicity and origins that a) are way more distant and b) do not comprehend notable relatives such as, e.g., Slovenia's greatest female poet. It is absolutely worth mentioning: Waltz's great-grandfather was the son of a Slovenian immigrant (i.e. a person of Slovenian ethnicity who moved within the Austrian Empire and resettled in Vienna to pursue his career as a Doctor) who spoke Slovenian and, just like Waltz's mother, had a Slovenian last name. Waltz himself lost his father when he was a little kid, considers himself an Austrian, and was thus much closer to his mother and, to a lesser degree, his adoptive father then his own father, whose surname he bears. I even read somewhere that he mulled over changing his surname into Urbancic (granted, mainly due to his grandfather--who worked with Freud--and great-grandfather Viktor, rather than Urbancic's Slovenian nature). But back to my main point: the thing is absolutely worth mentioning, and I say this not only from the pov of a learned and, I like to believe, objective person, but also by weighing my claim on the same weight scale as all other Wikipedia's articles'. You say it is not worth mentioning due to this and that, but upon what do you ground your judgement? Is it written in Wikipedia's Code? I do not believe so; and, again, reality (all Wikipedia's other articles) says it is my claim which is more just and correct; that the fact that his own mother, the one real (in the strictest acceptation thereof) parent who brought him up descended directly from a Slovenian man, that her surname is Slovenian and is one of the most notable in Slovenia, and that his relative was one of Slovenia's greatest poets, is indeed worth mentioning. I do not want to bring the good faith thing up again, but remember that just as I have good faith in you (which I do) so you must have good faith in me, and believe that I am not fighting for the Urbancics, or the Slovenian, or Mr. Waltz, but for Truth, Justice and having a good and extensive article on Earth's most read encyclopedia. Max9844419087 (talk) 18:36, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
@WikiDan61:They did not come off as offensive, I understand you are doing your job, and I do hope that you are assuming good faith in me just as I'm doing with you (for the record, my misassumption was due to the fact that you undid me on two different articles which both referred to Slavic people; thus, I--wrongly, I hope--thought there might have been some emotional or personal issues--because the articles were two distinct entities--but I now understand that you might have just been attempting to tutoring or something--edit: upon realizing that your bud @FlightTime: has been spying on me [see my talk page for more] I do realize that some authors do have immoral intentions here on Wikipedia, and that they do go against their own rules to suppress information or any user that does not fit them). I do get what you are saying, and I might agree on wording the paragraph to include (at least) the fact that one of his ancestors was, in every sense of the word, of Slovenian ethnicity, and that one of his relatives was one of the greatest Slovenian poets (without including 'the greatest' of course, but merely mentioning Turnograjska and linking the name to her own article on Wikipedia. We are not claiming that Waltz be Slovenian, that would be incorrect--and I never did it or thought of doing that--we are merely saying he is of Slovenian descent. If we worded the phrase regarding his ancestor and origin of the surname more exclusively, it would sound funny, and seem a rejection or belittling of the Slovenians when compared to most other articles (btw, as regards your kind request of being more specific in this aspect, well, you can just look any American actor up; literally, any American actor). Now, I proceed with further explaining, and proving, why Waltz is of Slovenian descent (in every meaning of the word: he descended from a person born in Slovenia, who spoke Slovenian and had Slovenian culture--I understand the slipperiness of the concept, especially when it comes to Yugoslavian people, but if we were to discuss the fact that Waltz's great-grandfather--and his cousin Josipina, the poet--were Slovenian, than we would be going against the accepted meaning and extent of the word 'ethnicity' itself (mind you, not Nationality), we would have to change all Yugoslavian people's articles, from the Turnograjska's, to Ivo Andric's, to Marko Marulic's, each and every; and even if we did so, it would still be wrong. We would have to go and claim that Dante wasn't Italian...), but NOT that he (Waltz himself) is of Slovenian ethnicity (again, we could say 'his great-great- grandfather was an ethnic Slovene and he has descended from him, but that would sound strange, when compared to 'he is of Slovenian descent' to me, and would include a useless surplus of words). As I did for Waltz's article, I will cite this source, even though Waltz's genealogy up to Alojz can be verified through his grandparents' articles on Wikipedia (Rudolf ; Viktor). In the Austrian source it is stated that Alojz Urbancic was born "14. 9. 1816 in Preddvor, SLO". This is not new to me, as I had gotten to know this through other genealogical research in Trieste's and Vienna's archives (which was done for other purposes in principle, but came to regard Waltz's ancestors). At any rate, it should be noted first off that Preddvor is a small village which is and was (at least since the High Middle Ages) ethnically Slovene, and that it has just a little over 800 inhabitants. There was one and only Urbancic family in Preddvor, and if the fact that Preddvor is and was ethnically Slovene does not suffice (to prove that the Slovene-surnamed Urbancics were Slovenians), then the fact that Josipina Turnograjska- Urbancic, who was born in Preddvor and was one of the greatest authors in Slovenian language, must. Then, to further prove (when there is no need to further proving) the link between Waltz' ancestor Aljoz, who was from the same tiny village as the poet, with whom he shared the surname of the one and only Urbancic family in Preddvor, one may want to visit Vienna's, Ljubljana's and Trieste's archives. I did. There are several websites that propose subscription in order to view birth certificates, death certificates and parish registers. Although most of them require fees, I found one which is open and free to view (although the details are written in Slovene). This is not to prove that Waltz's ancestors were from Preddvor or ethnically Slovene, nor to prove they were related to the poet--which has already been proven through the Austrian Humanities' link--rather, it is meant to establish the first-cousin degree between Aljoz (the father of Waltz's great-grandfather) and the famed poet. As you can read in this page, Aljoz was born in 1816 and died in Vienna in 1891 (which matches the Austrian humanities') his occupation was 'zdravnik, primarij v bolnišnici na Dunaju' which thanks to google translate I take it means 'doctor, primary physician in Vienna.' By clicking'father' in Aljoz jr. profile, you will get to his father's Aljoz page, who was born in Preddvor July 02, 1786. Under immediate family /Brother of: click 'other' and then Janez-Nepomuk-Urbančič, from thence, look among his immediate family, and there you'll find Josipina Toman (Urbančič), Turnograjska, the famed poet. Thus the fact that Waltz's ancestors were Slovenian is proved beyond reasonable doubt, being further pedant about it would mean jeopardizing the way we look at ethnicity and, thus, the way we understand the world, which goes beyond the scope of Waltz's article as well as of this talk. The fact that one of his relatives was one of the most famed Slovenian poets further highlights the Slovenian heritage of the Urbancics (again, not of Waltz's himself, who might or might not embrace his Slovenian roots, but who, by all means, is of Slovenian descent). Finally, one thing I forgot to mention, is that the fact that he is partly of Slovenian descent must be reported not only because it is factual and one of his relatives was one of Slovenia's most famed authors, but also because it is the only foreign roots Waltz--a Germanic of half Austrian and half German descent--has. Juxtaposed to that, this fact gains even more importance. Btw, your point was absolutely right. You should be more careful mate. Max9844419087 (talk) 20:45, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
@WikiDan61: I feel a lot of hypocrisy when you accuse me of having an interest in this, according to the very principle you mentioned a few replies above. By saying that in encyclopedic material we should talk about what articles' subjects want us to talk about, you show that you do not understand the purpose and function of an ecyclopedia, but would rather change facts to please subjects or your own likings (e.g. Slavs, non-Slavs). It is proven that Waltz is of Slovenian descent through his mother, and it is proven that he is related to the poet Josipina Turnograjska Urbančič. This is a fact and must and is and shall remain reported. Since you flipped that card of me yourself in the last comment, I will remind you once again that you must keep your own likings out of Wikipedia. It is not ethical, nor just. Again, the fact that his relative was an important poet should be reported alongside the Slovenian roots of his mother, because this is from any point of view (mine, yours, Waltz's) an important and interesting fact per se; the importance (to Wikipedia) of the custom of reporting a subject's notable relatives (even if very distant ones) can be evinced in each and every article in Wikipedia, which treats subjects that indeed have notable relatives (just as the importance of the custom of reporting one's ethnicity can be evinced in any person's article across the board. Perhaps the problem is that somebody--and I'm not necessarily saying that it is you--deems being Scottish or Italian more important or desirable than being Slovene). The fact that this relative was, in Waltz's case, one of Slovenia's most famous poets, should definitely be reported. If anything, as trivia alongside the proven Slovene roots of his mother (née Urbancic). Max9844419087 (talk) 21:30, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
@WikiDan61: I'm out as well, and if that'll be the final decision, I will deem it wrong, but I will accept it. Because I do accept reality. Plus, if you think that it is just, and you are okay with it, then I'm totally okay with it as well. I only hope that, by the very veritable principles of Wikipedia, you will not attempt to delete this talk or try and dissociate from it in the future. So that it may be forever for all to see. Max9844419087 (talk) 21:51, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Max9844419087 (talk) 09:08, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Max9844419087 (talk) 09:22, 20 August 2020 (UTC) I have added the footnote as suggested by Doremo. I agree that this connection to a noted poet is, at the very most, worthy of a footnote. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 11:32, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Max9844419087 (talk) 12:51, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
@WikiDan61: I agree and back your decision to get out. You should be more careful next time: you first acknowledged (a few replies above) that Waltz' relationship to the poet should be noted (to then take it back in your next reply). Then, you accepted Doremo's proposal, only to go and modify Waltz's article to have it your way. Unwilling to recant and contradict yourself a second time, you leave. Finally, I would like to point out that while I'm sorry for having been rhetorical in most of my previous replies, this was after you denied facts (which I proved through valid sources) and attempted to suppress Waltz's established Slovenian descent through his mother, as well as his distant but by all means notable relation to one of Slovenia's greatest poets. Max9844419087 (talk) 13:44, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Max9844419087 (talk) 14:09, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
No, we all agreed on Doremo's suggestion, namely I suggest that the Slovene heritage be mentioned briefly next to his mother's name, and that the genealogical relationship be explained in a footnote, with sources; for example: "... Elisabeth Urbancic, an Austrian costume designer of Slovene descent and distant relative of Josipina Urbančič.<SOURCE><FOOTNOTE: Waltz's maternal great-grandfather was Viktor Urbantschitsch, the son of Alois Urbantschitsch (a.k.a. Alojz Urbančič), who was born in Preddvor, today Slovenia.<SOURCE> Josipina Urbančič, one of the first Slovene female poets and composers, was Alojz's first cousin.<SOURCE>>" Doremo (talk) 03:17, 20 August 2020 (UTC) VViking I think the edit you are referring to was the result of WikDany61 either misunderstanding or neglecting all points of the agreement (he did agree as well). The Slovenian heritage of his mother should "be mentioned briefly next to his mother's name," while "the genealogical relationship be explained in a footnote," for example "... Elisabeth Urbancic, an Austrian costume designer of Slovene descent and distant relative of Josipina Urbančič," etc. So somebody should go and modify the entry so that it abides by the decision: i.e. mentioning briefly his mother heritage and connection to the poet, with the genealogical connection well explained in a footnote. You should look some replies above, what you are referring to is Yerpo's proposal on how the footnote should look like, but the original agreement was that his heritage and connection with the poet be mentioned, albeit briefly. I believe this was implied in Yerpo's proposal. Max9844419087 (talk) 16:20, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
VViking Again, WikiDany61 agreed himself, even if he recants now, four of us did, three of you don't. There is a very long talk here, you may understand things better by carefully reading all the replies above.. Since the heritage of Waltz's mother is proven, and his relationship with the poet interesting (according to Wikipedia's standards), and heritage is always reported here on Wikipedia, especially when it's one single strain and it affects one's last name, rendering it peculiar in a given context--such as Waltz's mother Urbancic in Austria--the page should remain as it is or be modified according to the agreement. The footnote you are talking about is probably in one of WikiDany's last edits, you may leave (that is, add) the footnote and shorten the paragraph wherein Waltz's Slovenian roots and relatives are described (as it stands now), so long as you rewrite it and mention (briefly) his mother's heritage and relationship with the Slovenian poet. Max9844419087 (talk) 17:34, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
"[...]As I did for Waltz's article, I will cite this source, even though Waltz's genealogy up to Alojz can be verified through his grandparents' articles on Wikipedia (Rudolf ; Viktor). In the Austrian source it is stated that Alojz Urbancic was born "14. 9. 1816 in Preddvor, SLO". This is not new to me, as I had gotten to know this through other genealogical research in Trieste's and Vienna's archives (which was done for other purposes in principle, but came to regard Waltz's ancestors). At any rate, it should be noted first off that Preddvor is a small village which is and was (at least since the High Middle Ages) ethnically Slovene, and that it has just a little over 800 inhabitants. There was one and only Urbancic family in Preddvor, and if the fact that Preddvor is and was ethnically Slovene does not suffice (to prove that the Slovene-surnamed Urbancics were Slovenians), then the fact that Josipina Turnograjska- Urbancic, who was born in Preddvor and was one of the greatest authors in Slovenian language, must. Then, to further prove (when there is no need to further proving) the link between Waltz' ancestor Aljoz, who was from the same tiny village as the poet, with whom he shared the surname of the one and only Urbancic family in Preddvor, one may want to visit Vienna's, Ljubljana's and Trieste's archives. I did. There are several websites that propose subscription in order to view birth certificates, death certificates and parish registers. Although most of them require fees, I found one which is open and free to view (although the details are written in Slovene). This is not to prove that Waltz's ancestors were from Preddvor or ethnically Slovene, nor to prove they were related to the poet--which has already been proven through the Austrian Humanities' link--rather, it is meant to establish the first-cousin degree between Aljoz (the father of Waltz's great-grandfather) and the famed poet. As you can read in this page, Aljoz was born in 1816 and died in Vienna in 1891 (which matches the Austrian humanities') his occupation was 'zdravnik, primarij v bolnišnici na Dunaju' which thanks to google translate I take it means 'doctor, primary physician in Vienna.' By clicking on 'father' in Aljoz jr. profile, you will get to his father's Aljoz page, who was born in Preddvor July 02, 1786. Under immediate family /Brother of: click 'other' and then Janez-Nepomuk-Urbančič, from thence, look among his immediate family, and there you'll find Josipina Toman (Urbančič), Turnograjska, the famed poet." EDIT: upon reading through the reliable and valid Slovenian source cited above, I realize re-posting my reply was completely useless, as the relation between Waltz and the poet and the Slovene ethnicity of his mother's great-grandfather are established therein. The source even specifically mentions Waltz and describes his career as an actor--this was the main objection of WikiDany61, i.e. that although we know and can prove that his mother has Slovenian roots and he is related to the poet, we do not have a source that treats this while mentioning Waltz specifically as well (which actually wasn't correct either, considering the source I posted in the first place) well, now we do. Max9844419087 (talk) 19:15, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
Max9844419087 (talk) 11:45, 21 August 2020 (UTC)
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Waltz' citizenships (Austrian & German by birth / naturalized US)
"Waltz was born in Vienna to a German father who applied for him to become a citizen of Germany after his birth." My English ist not the best, but I think his father didn't "applied" for him to become a German citizen. In fact, the German Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz ("German citizenship act") states that only the father's citizenship determines the citizenship of the child when it is born as a legitimate child for all births from 1 January 1914 until 31 December 1963; I don't know the Austrian legal status an that time, but I suggest that it was similar. So his father didn't apply the citizenship for him, Waltz was simply German by birth. --Bessawissa94 (talk) 17:44, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
- In fact, the German version of this article it is also said that his German citizenship was determined by birth.--Bessawissa94 (talk) 17:46, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
- According to his statements in Bill Maher's Real Time TV show, Waltz is now also a naturalized US citizen. (Question: does a TV interview suffice as a source for WP?) However, the issue of his citizenships at birth hasn't been addressed in all these years. The external Austrian source, which contains false information (see below), probably didn't help and prevented this WP article from being corrected. Dual or multiple citizenships are always a hassle, because in most countries a natural born citizen can only have one citizenship at birth, with no allegiance to any other nation, with (in principle) no laws necessary to govern citizenship. For example: born in Austria to two Austrian parents? That's basically the only clear-cut case anywhere. For all the other possible cases of a child's status at birth there are sovereign laws on statutory citizenship. The case at hand is luckily also quite clear-cut, or—dare I quote Waltz—even "banal": Waltz at the time of his birth was automatically a statutory citizen by the iura sanguinis of both Germany and Austria—patrilineally German and matrilineally Austrian, in the latter case possibly also by ius soli due to his birth in Vienna, though I don't know if there is any Austrian law regarding ius soli. (Ius soli would be secondary anyway in these two nations, especially in the 1950s.) But no matter what, children still need to be registered with the authorities—in Waltz' case with both German and Austrian authorities—for the state to recognize them as citizens for administrative purposes, especially when born abroad. (In Waltz' case, his citizenship either wasn't registered with the Austrian authorities, or it was, but never acted upon in later years.) So "apply to become a German after his birth" is a completely false description, because he had always been German from birth anyway: instead, "register his German birth citizenship" would be correct. Therefore the wording in the Austrian article (wienerzeitung.at) is wrong and misleading, and it should only be used very superficially as a source for this article. The source is also wrong in one other instance: Waltz did not "become an Austrian citizen", i.e. he didn't receive Austrian citizenship in 2010 decades after his birth, which would be a naturalization—and he's only a naturalized citizen of the US. In reality, he had always been a statutory Austrian citizen at birth, and his status was only recognized or registered or acted upon belatedly, a quick and "banal" administrative act with delivery of his first passport. (By the way, this happens a lot in Europe, e.g. Germans with one migrant parent suddenly returning from vacation as half-Italian or half-Spanish etc. decades after their birth, while in reality they had always been dual citizens. So Waltz may not be a traditional natural Austrian or German citizen, but quite the usual modern European citizen.) Nota bene: since in most countries the mother is the more important and often only relevant parent regarding a child's citizenship, when it comes to ius sanguinis, also to a defining extent in Austrian law, his Austrian citizenship should be regarded as his primary one at birth, even if chronologically his German citizenship had been the first one fully administered, even more so because he was born, grew up and was educated in Austria, as Waltz himself has emphasized many times. His new US citizenship should in my view be regarded as his overall primary citizenship, because it was his own wish and decision to become an American later in life. So the article's leading sentence should read: "Christoph Waltz (German: [ˈkʀɪstɔf ˈvalts]; born 4 October 1956) is an American-Austrian-German actor." 89.14.7.127 (talk) 09:54, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
- Hi, shall we omit Waltz's nationality in the first sentence as we've already done in Tina Turner, Elon Musk, etc? It's covered in the "personal life" section. Btw, sorry for edit-warring with other users. Thedarkknightli (talk) 07:29, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
- Hi @Clear Looking Glass, could you please take a look at this? Thanks in advance! Thedarkknightli (talk) 03:44, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
- According to his statements in Bill Maher's Real Time TV show, Waltz is now also a naturalized US citizen. (Question: does a TV interview suffice as a source for WP?) However, the issue of his citizenships at birth hasn't been addressed in all these years. The external Austrian source, which contains false information (see below), probably didn't help and prevented this WP article from being corrected. Dual or multiple citizenships are always a hassle, because in most countries a natural born citizen can only have one citizenship at birth, with no allegiance to any other nation, with (in principle) no laws necessary to govern citizenship. For example: born in Austria to two Austrian parents? That's basically the only clear-cut case anywhere. For all the other possible cases of a child's status at birth there are sovereign laws on statutory citizenship. The case at hand is luckily also quite clear-cut, or—dare I quote Waltz—even "banal": Waltz at the time of his birth was automatically a statutory citizen by the iura sanguinis of both Germany and Austria—patrilineally German and matrilineally Austrian, in the latter case possibly also by ius soli due to his birth in Vienna, though I don't know if there is any Austrian law regarding ius soli. (Ius soli would be secondary anyway in these two nations, especially in the 1950s.) But no matter what, children still need to be registered with the authorities—in Waltz' case with both German and Austrian authorities—for the state to recognize them as citizens for administrative purposes, especially when born abroad. (In Waltz' case, his citizenship either wasn't registered with the Austrian authorities, or it was, but never acted upon in later years.) So "apply to become a German after his birth" is a completely false description, because he had always been German from birth anyway: instead, "register his German birth citizenship" would be correct. Therefore the wording in the Austrian article (wienerzeitung.at) is wrong and misleading, and it should only be used very superficially as a source for this article. The source is also wrong in one other instance: Waltz did not "become an Austrian citizen", i.e. he didn't receive Austrian citizenship in 2010 decades after his birth, which would be a naturalization—and he's only a naturalized citizen of the US. In reality, he had always been a statutory Austrian citizen at birth, and his status was only recognized or registered or acted upon belatedly, a quick and "banal" administrative act with delivery of his first passport. (By the way, this happens a lot in Europe, e.g. Germans with one migrant parent suddenly returning from vacation as half-Italian or half-Spanish etc. decades after their birth, while in reality they had always been dual citizens. So Waltz may not be a traditional natural Austrian or German citizen, but quite the usual modern European citizen.) Nota bene: since in most countries the mother is the more important and often only relevant parent regarding a child's citizenship, when it comes to ius sanguinis, also to a defining extent in Austrian law, his Austrian citizenship should be regarded as his primary one at birth, even if chronologically his German citizenship had been the first one fully administered, even more so because he was born, grew up and was educated in Austria, as Waltz himself has emphasized many times. His new US citizenship should in my view be regarded as his overall primary citizenship, because it was his own wish and decision to become an American later in life. So the article's leading sentence should read: "Christoph Waltz (German: [ˈkʀɪstɔf ˈvalts]; born 4 October 1956) is an American-Austrian-German actor." 89.14.7.127 (talk) 09:54, 20 February 2023 (UTC)