This article is within the scope of WikiProject Bible, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Bible on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.BibleWikipedia:WikiProject BibleTemplate:WikiProject BibleBible articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Religion, a project to improve Wikipedia's articles on Religion-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us assess and improve articles to good and 1.0 standards, or visit the wikiproject page for more details.ReligionWikipedia:WikiProject ReligionTemplate:WikiProject ReligionReligion articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Greece, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Greece on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GreeceWikipedia:WikiProject GreeceTemplate:WikiProject GreeceGreek articles
This article was copy edited by Miniapolis, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on March 28, 2012.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles
Reviewer:Grandiose (talk·contribs) 17:10, 1 December 2011 (UTC)
I'll be completing the rest of the review shortly, but I also foresee problems about the understandability of the prose here too, from a non-expert perspective. Grandiose(me, talk, contribs) 17:10, 1 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
"According to Kurt and Barbara Aland it agrees with the Byzantine standard text 119 times, and 80 times with the Byzantine when it has the same reading as the original text, it agrees 60 times with the original text against the Byzantine, it has 69 independent or distinctive readings in the Gospels." ~ really needs splitting into more than one sentence;
"Alands"? Should this be "Aland" or "the Alands"?
Possibly mention what a "text-type" is if this can be done succinctly.
"Matthew 1-10; Matthew 22 – Mark 14; Luke 4-23; John 1-13; 18 there are in this codex 2243 variants from the Textus Receptus." Sorry, what does this mean? I get the first half of the sentence but am now completely at sea.
Translate "Ιησουν τον Βαραββαν" and indicate what it is a variant of (i.e. what the more common variant is);
What's a "full point"?
Quality of English:
"Bengel made a few extracts from the codex" "took" or "used" rather than "made" I think; if in doubt perhaps WP:RD/L can help.
"Wettstein dated codex to the 10th century." "the Codex" rather than "codex", I think.
Full names on first use, or initials if that's what they went by.
"are similar" => "were similar". Even if they haven't changed, this sounds far more natural.
"All this group was examined by Kirsopp Lake" "All of", at least, not sure about was/were. Probably either.
"portrait" => "portraits". If the two named portraits are the only pictures, then it's probably easier to remove the brackets and delete "pictures". If they are among the pictures, insert "including" before "portraits".
"According to Kurt and Barbara Aland it agrees with the Byzantine standard text 119 times, and 80 times with the Byzantine when it has the same reading as the original text, it agrees 60 times with the original text against the Byzantine, it has 69 independent or distinctive readings in the Gospels." ~
I did not see this "original text" wording in a quick check of Aland, and even if was there, it would not make sense here. This problem is on many pages. Alternatives that might make sense are the Critical Text, or the Alexandrian text. I'll wait a while for a response, if none I will recheck Aland and see what wording might be the best.
StevenAvery.ny (talk) 03:54, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
If you will take book of Aland,s you can find - 1191, 802, 601/2, 69s. This is Aland's profile. The explanation of Aland's profile you can find on other pages of this book as well as an explanation of his categorisation of the New Testament manuscripts. It is not the Alexandrian text as you think, but close to it. According to Aland and other textual critics it is original text. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 16:17, 22 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The lead could provide more general detail. For example, how long is it (297 pages), how is it divided up, etc.
"It was originally accompanied by miniatures..." - is this refering to Miniature (illuminated manuscript)? If so, a wikilink would be useful.
"without separation in "elegant and minute" minuscule..." - this quote seems out of place. The section is being neutrally descriptive except here where an opinion is just thrown in. The writing can be improved by providing more context, like "what text critic Mr.x calls 'elegant and minute' minuscule". Also, please directly cite the quote.
"it agrees with the Byzantine standard text 119 times, and 80 times with the Byzantine when it has the same reading as the original text. It agrees 60 times with the original text against the Byzantine, ..." - I got lost here. Do both these "it"s refer to this Codex Basilensis? what is the difference between the last two comparisons (80 times and 60 times?, they both seem to be comparing the codex to the the Byz and the original text?)
"Griesbach was the first..." and "According to Hort, its text..." and "Wettstein, Tischendorf, Scrivener and Gregory" and "Hug supported..." - don't assume the reader already has such historical familiarity with the topic; the target audience is the general reader. On the first instance of using names of people in the article, provide their first and last names and an indication of who they are (why they are being used) or their relationships to one another. Many seem to be textual critic but studying hundreds of years apart.
" It was borrowed by Reuchlin and used by Desiderius Erasmus in the first edition of his Novum Testamentum (1516); as a result, some of its readings are found in the Textus Receptus." - I don't follow why Reuchlin is being included in the same sentence as Erasmus and Textus Receptus. What is the connection? Again, use the full name on the first instance (like you did with Desiderius Erasmus).
"Its later story is the same as that of Codex Basilensis and minuscule 2 (GA)." - don't just end the paragraph there! Give us at least a summary of what happened.
I'm still not clear here: "80 times with the Byzantine...original text" and "60 times with the original text against the Byzantine"? One is according Aland and the other something else? maclean (talk) 19:35, 16 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That didn't help. I read the reference and I get the "119 times with the Byzantine standard text" and the "60 with the original text", but I'm lost as to what "agreements with the Byzantine text where it has the same reading as the original text" means. Can you explain this to me, in plain language, here on the review page? maclean (talk) 06:32, 17 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Aland's profile:
1) agreements with the Byzantine text
2) agreements with the Byzantine text where it has the same reading as the original text
That is what the reference says but does not answer the question I asked above. I asked if you could explain it (not repeat it). I can understand if you want to include that specific definition as part of the 'profile' but do so as an accessory (as an image, table, list, or infobox) because that does not make good prose. In Wikipedia terms, it violates MOS:JARGON: some topics are intrinsically technical, but editors should try to make them accessible to as many readers as possible. Minimize jargon, or at least explain it;...Do not introduce new and specialized words simply to teach them to the reader, when more common alternatives will do." The Text of the New Testament is written for a more academic audience already familar with the subject, Wikipedia is not. There are several examples in this article of unnecessay jargon, but this example is the worst. Other examples include:
"(systematically cited in UBS3,[21] UBS4,[22] NA26[23] and NA27); in NA27, it is cited as a witness of the first order." - abbreviations hides the meaning so that only people familiar with the jargon get it.
"αναγνωσεις (lessons)...in Matthew – 116 αναγνωσεις...Lectionary markings and αναγνωσεις..." - this is exactly what the "Do not introduce new and specialized words simply to teach them to the reader, when more common alternatives will do." from WP:JARGON is referring to. If αναγνωσεις means 'lessons', then say 'lessons' and put it the specialized term in brackets.
"It is dated by the INTF..." - again an unnecessary abbreviation is turning an organization's name into industry jargon.
"(collates 1 with 118, 131, and 209)." - no explanation about what these numbers are referring to.
Your edits to the article indicate you are willing to make clarifications on some points but your responses on this review page demonstrate an unwillingness to clarify others. Technical articles still should meet the technical article guidelines. There are several areas in the current version of this article that are not consistent with those guidelines (examples noted above). As such, I am asking you flat out: are you willing to make clarifications or not? If you would like further guidance as to what is unclear, that is fine. But some of your responses on this review page thus far have demonstrated resistance. maclean (talk) 04:52, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In Aland's Profile, Kurt and Barbara Aland placed the codex's Gospels in Category III with the profile of 1191, 802, 601/2, 69s. This means the text of the codex agrees with the Byzantine standard text 119 times, with the original text against the Byzantine 80 times, and with both the Byzantine and original text 60 times. There are 69 independent or distinctive readings in the Gospels. While the Gospels are a representative of the Caesarean text-type, the remainder of the books of the New Testament in this codex is a representative of the Byzantine text-type and falls into Category V Aland's Profile.
III Category - the text has historical importance; 5 Category is the lowest, manuscripts with 5 Category usually are not cited in critical editions. Leszek Jańczuk (talk) 14:42, 23 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have re-read the article. The only sticking point to date has been the quality of writing being presented. I find the writing is more clear now; perhaps because I've read it several times, but all the specific violations of WP:Jargon and unclear phrases that I can identify have been addressed. It can be difficult to communicate basic concepts when you are already overly familiar with a topic, as the language devolves into assumptions of familiarity (like use of acronyms). Regardless, I think this can now qualify as a GA. —maclean (talk) 19:44, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
b (citations to reliable sources): 
