Talk:David Hughes (tenor)

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Nationality of David Hughes

re your comments that ‘Being born in India does not make you an Indian - parentage defines nationality’

Dear Jongleur

The David Hughes article is actually not correct when it says that Geoffrey Paddison was ‘of Welsh parents’, and I have been meaning to do something about this for a while now. It would in fact be more accurate if it were to say he was of Welsh extraction, because it was only his father who was Welsh. His mother, Susan Thompson, was English, and I have actually heard David’s sister Mary Wothers say that she was born in nearby Selly Oak, so the children were only half Welsh. By this token, and because he was born in Bournbrook, it looks like the scales may be tipped in favour of him being English rather than Welsh. Though obviously he was very proud of his Welsh side, being half English and born in England probably does make him ‘an English popular singer’ after all – what do you think?

Regards (Lepidus Magnus (talk) 19:28, 20 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

'....only his father who was Welsh. His mother, Susan Thompson, was English...'

Perhaps 'British' may be a happy compromise, then? Cheers, ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ ^talk 19:37, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe, though I too was born in Birmingham of mixed parentage - in my case a Welsh mother and an English father. Whilst I am also bilingual in Welsh and English, and even live in Wales now, I still think of myself as English. My Welsh friends too consider me to be English rather than Welsh. As the categories attached to this article are ‘English opera singers’ and ‘English tenors’ perhaps it should stay as ‘an English popular singer’? (Lepidus Magnus (talk) 20:06, 20 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

I'm Welsh, with an English wife, living in England. My daughters, (who were born in England,) think of themselves as being of mixed parentage. I don't think they'd describe themeslves as either English or Welsh. But if you want to claim David Hughes as English so be it. It won't stop the Welsh thinking of him as one of their own. (He wasn't that good an opera singer anyway!) ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ ^talk 21:13, 20 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You may be interested in this quote from his sister, Mary Wothers : "Having been introduced by Henry as the young Welsh tenor, it was suggested that he choose a Welsh professional name. The obvious choice was our fathers first two names, and proudly Geoffrey Paddison became David Hughes. The Welsh influence remained strong in David’s life, and he appeared twice a year in concerts at Llandudno for 24 years until his death."

Cheers, ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ ^talk 22:56, 21 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You really do want David Hughes to be Welsh don’t you! Yes you’re quite right that he was proud of his Welsh ancestry, and even sort to use this as a way of promoting himself as a singer. But your original argument was that being born in England did not define his nationality and that because of his Welsh parentage he was Welsh. I see you have even added new Welsh categories to the article in accordance with your view that he was Welsh. The only thing is it still remains that his parentage was only half Welsh, and surely because he was born and bred in England rather than in Wales this would have implications for his nationality. Maybe something like ‘an English-born popular singer of Welsh extraction’ would be one way of getting round things? (Lepidus Magnus (talk) 17:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

I don't want him to be anything other than what he was. As a Wiki editor I try hard to be accurate and impartial. Hughes was proud of his Welsh heritage, as were the rest of his family. He was always presented to the public as being Welsh and he never even hinted that he wasn't. So to see him described as an 'English' singer is very strange to someone who remembers him, and his performances, very well. If his parentage, as you say, was half Welsh half English, to describe him as 'English' is wrong too. That's why I suggested the compromise 'British'. But I find your alternative ‘an English-born popular singer of Welsh extraction’ perfectly acceptable. I added the Welsh categories because they are accurate, but you will note that I left the English ones in place too. ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ ^talk 18:30, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Glad to hear you think my suggestion is a valid one – as the editor may be you’d do the honours and make the alteration? Nationality can often be a complex issue especially in the British Isles. I was speaking from the point of view of knowing where he came from, as my late father actually grew up with him in Bournbrook when he was just Geoffrey Paddison. Regards (Lepidus Magnus (talk) 19:12, 22 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

And I'm glad that we were able to reach a happy compromise on that one, as I hate edit wars. There is one other thing that needs sorting. The article states that David went to the 'Royal Academy of Music and Dramatic Art' He couldn't have, as no such place exists. He either went to LAMDA, (London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art) or to the RAM (Royal Academy of Music,) which doesn't have a drama department. I rather think that it must have been the latter. Does anyone know for sure? ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ ^talk 20:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I wouldn’t call it ‘an edit war’, merely a difference of view points, but as you say amicably resolved I hope. I’m afraid I can’t help much on the details of David’s training, but maybe Mary might know. If I can I’ll try and find out. (Lepidus Magnus (talk) 21:46, 22 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Sorry, what I meant was 'I'm glad it didn't develop into an edit war.' ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ ^talk 22:28, 22 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

David Hughes

Hi. I thought you might be interested in seeing this [1] if you already haven't. Cheers, ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ ^talk 16:42, 29 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Jongleur

Many thanks for this, and no I hadn’t come across this before. It does indeed make for interesting reading, and I see that the first article mentions that David attended the ‘London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art’, which seems to answer your question about this. I’ve also been listening to a tape I have of Mary Wothers talking to local historian and broadcaster Carl Chinn on BBC Radio WM from June and November 2005, when she also says he went to the LAMDA; so that seems pretty conclusive. I also note that in the broadcast on 5 June 2005 she had this to say “my mother, she was one of ten, born in Selly Oak ... they were born in stone-yard cottages, Selly Oak”, so it would seem that the bit in the second article which says ‘as both his parents and grandparents came from around Swansea’ is not wholly accurate. I see in the first article that Mary also says their father left Swansea when he was only five years of age and moved to live in Birmingham; something she reiterated during her talk with Carl Chinn on 6 November 2005. As I’ve said before David was obviously very proud of his Welsh side, and sort to use this as a way of furthering his career as a singer. In light of the strong Welsh connection, it seems reasonable to keep the Welsh singer categories you added as well as the opening line about him being English-born but of Welsh extraction. I have actually just written to Mary to thank her for the sympathy cards she sent on the recent death of my father, and so have asked her about her mother. If she can added anything to the above I’ll be sure to let you know.

Regards (Lepidus Magnus (talk) 10:54, 31 August 2008 (UTC))[reply]

Thanks for that. Despite all the evidence to the contrary I am still not convinced that David went to LAMDA! The reason being that in my experience people (even journalists) get very confused between the acronyms RADA, RAM, and LAMDA, which are all arts institutions. People also often confuse the Royal Academy of Music with the Royal College of Music. The Guildhall School of Music may be referred to as ' a London college of music'. But there is a totally separate organisation called the London College of Music. See what I mean?

But my real doubts arise because, despite it's name - the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art - LAMDA actually does no music. It trains actors and theatre technicians. And David's name does not appear in their list of Alumni. It is far more likely that he went to the Royal Academy of Music if he wanted to train as an opera singer. Murky waters, indeed! My sincere condolences on the loss of your father. ♦ Jongleur100 ♦ ^talk 11:24, 31 August 2008 (UTC)[reply]