Talk:Elbridge Gerry

Elbridge Gerry has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 21, 2013	Good article nominee	Listed

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Reasons for Not Signing the Constitution

The article may not be technically incorrect, but citing to Gerry's words himself (as transcribed by Madison) would be more clear and precise. Gerry outlined the three primary reasons he wasn't signing 1) The Necessary and Proper clause gave Congress too much power; 2) Not limiting Congress' ability to raise money and armies was dangerous; and 3) No right to jury in civil cases. Here's a link to that specific speech on August 15, 1787 - http://www.tweetthedebates.com/2955-2/

The speech within the contest of all of the day's speeches is available here - http://consource.org/document/james-madisons-notes-of-the-constitutional-convention-1787-9-15/

24.52.86.182 (talk) 23:31, 6 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]

E.G. and U.S. foundational documents

Gerry did not sign the constitution!

It doesn't say he did, in fact it says he voted against it. --fvw * 22:49, 2004 Dec 20 (UTC)

It does say he's the only signer buried in Washington DC, so that could potentially be improved or explained. Did he sign it after Bill of Rights was adopted? Does it mean "only person present at the signing" (even though he didn't himself sign it)? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.14.65.239 (talk) 22:12, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

E.G. and the Convention

Why would Elbridge Gerry become vice president if he was not in favor of the new govt.? He did take part.

That is addressed in the article, he changed his mind, he was publicly against the government when it was proposed and publicly for it when it came into effect.

E.G. and the French

Should it say that he was humiliated by the French? It doesen't sound like they humiliated them, disrespected them most definitely but the Americans supported his response, as to not give a cent for a bribe. One might say he was humiliated when he stayed in France but I think that would still be poor word choice. Any ideas for a different word, snubbed sounds informal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.64.93 (talk) 22:51, 8 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

E.G. selection as VP

perhaps US history buffs can correct me here, but i don't think anyone has ever been "elected" to the Vice Presidency of the U.S. 71.188.87.164 (talk) 01:57, 29 April 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, electors vote for a President as well as a Vice President. The 12th Amendment clarified this. Perm Dude (talk) 23:02, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

E.G. not running for President

I am removing the passage which states, "He was also the second Vice President not to run for President of the United States, although this was because of his death rather than being a political decision; the first was Aaron Burr." The statement is factually incorrect, as Jefferson's second Vice President, George Clinton, also did not run for president, and also died in office. To note that Gerry is the third vice president (out of a possible five) not to subsequently run for President, and the second for whom this is due to death prior to opportunity, is a claim which sinks below the threshhold of noteworthiness. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AQuandary (talk • contribs) 23:22, 30 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Signers?

This has probably gone round the houses lots of times. I declare I am an Englishman. To me "Signers" (of the US Declaration of Independence) seems very unnatural; I would put "signatories". Nevertheless the category is "signers of..." and I can only assume this is either historically correct (i.e. the language of the time, on one or both sides of the Atlantic) or that it is now natural US usage. I have lived in the States a couple of years but not really heard either, so cannot make an opinion from personal experience.

I doubt I would win any change here, but it would be ideal if someone could tell me why it is "signers" not "signatories": e.g. if a paper of the time, from either side of the pond, listed them under that headline.

I am fairly sure I am "in the wrong" here in wanting "signatories" since I imagine it has been well argued before, so any pointer to a previous discussion of it will be well enough to cure my nagging doubt.

Best wishes. SimonTrew (talk) 20:21, 24 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to the (authoritatively American) Merriam-Webster dictionary, the first known use of "signatory" was in 1866. So it may be that the expressions, "signers of the..." became fossilized in the US with respect to the founding documents well before the longer word was coined. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.53.195.38 (talk) 15:49, 30 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Disagreement

Declaration page states he refused to sign. His page says he signed. Which is right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.175.198.184 (talk) 01:57, 16 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Quote source(s)?

Good quotes, but where are they from? If anything on the page should be sourced, it should be text purporting to be direct quotes.Perm Dude (talk) 23:04, 4 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Elbridge Gerry/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 02:17, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be glad to ~~mander~~ review this one. As last time I'll start with a close readthrough, noting any initial issues, then go to the checklist. Thanks in advance for your work on this one; you seem to be on quite the roll! -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:17, 19 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Initial readthrough

This looks like another very strong article: sharp prose, excellent sourcing, a concise but comprehensive overview of the subject's life. I only have a few small points to suggest.

"Gerry was staying at an inn Menotomy" -- should this be "an inn in"?

On second thought, surely it is, so I just changed it myself.

"Adams himself being the other" -- not something that needs attention, I just wanted to note that this was hilarious.
- Methinks Adams had an ego... I thought it was funny too, although I'd like to see what exactly Adams wrote at some point that led more than one historian (not just the one cited...) to this conclusion. Magic♪piano 15:26, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"Gerry's financial difficulties prompted him to ask President James Madison for a federal position" -- is it possible to add a year here?
- I've added explanation. The Mass governor election was held in the spring (March I think), after which he became involved in the presidential contest. Magic♪piano 15:26, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
"is the only signer of the Declaration buried in the nation's capital" --that's an interesting bit of trivia.
It's not an issue for the GA review, but I'm not sure I'm a fan of the epitaph-like closing quotation, particularly one so laudatory. -- Khazar2 (talk) 02:17, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]
- No one I've seen who has written at reasonable length on Gerry has seriously questioned his commitment to the causes of independence and republicanism. The quote is, as you say, perhaps a bit laudatory, but i thought it quite apt. Magic♪piano 15:26, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your review! Magic♪piano 15:26, 21 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Checklist

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Prose is excellent; spotchecks against Billias and online sources show no evidence of copyright issues.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	All images have copyright status
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	All images are captioned and are helpful, particularly the gerry-mander cartoon.
	7. Overall assessment.	Pass--very good work.

Middle name?

It says his middle name was Thomas. That factoid needs to cite a reliable source. I thought he didn't have a middle name. (Most Americans born in 1744 probably didn't.)--Solomonfromfinland (talk) 20:59, 27 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I second Solomonfromfinland-- The Personal Info box gives his name as Elbridge Thomas Gerry. I have never seen his middle name as Thomas, or any middle name for him at all, in any other source, including anywhere else in this article. Is there any authority for this? Whence comes it? Venqax (talk) 19:20, 13 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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