Talk:Human evolution

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Human evolution article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Evolutionary biology High‑importance

	Evolutionary biology portal This article is part of WikiProject Evolutionary biology, an attempt at building a useful set of articles on evolutionary biology and its associated subfields such as population genetics, quantitative genetics, molecular evolution, phylogenetics, and evolutionary developmental biology. It is distinct from the WikiProject Tree of Life in that it attempts to cover patterns, process and theory rather than systematics and taxonomy. If you would like to participate, there are some suggestions on this page (see also Wikipedia:Contributing FAQ for more information) or visit WikiProject Evolutionary biologyEvolutionary biologyWikipedia:WikiProject Evolutionary biologyTemplate:WikiProject Evolutionary biologyEvolutionary biology
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Anthropology Top‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Anthropology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Anthropology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AnthropologyWikipedia:WikiProject AnthropologyTemplate:WikiProject AnthropologyAnthropology
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the importance scale.

Human Genetic History (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human Genetic History, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Human Genetic HistoryWikipedia:WikiProject Human Genetic HistoryTemplate:WikiProject Human Genetic HistoryHuman Genetic History

Primates Top‑importance

	Primates portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Primates, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Primates on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PrimatesWikipedia:WikiProject PrimatesTemplate:WikiProject PrimatesPrimate
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Palaeontology Top‑importance

	Paleontology portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palaeontology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of palaeontology-related topics and create a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use resource on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PalaeontologyWikipedia:WikiProject PalaeontologyTemplate:WikiProject PalaeontologyPalaeontology
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Transhumanism Top‑importance

Human evolution' is part of WikiProject Transhumanism, which aims to organize, expand, clean up, and guide Transhumanism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page for more details.TranshumanismWikipedia:WikiProject TranshumanismTemplate:WikiProject TranshumanismTranshumanism

Top

This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

For more information and how you can help click Show:

If you would like to participate, you can edit this article, or visit the project page for more details.

Quick help:

See changes to:

To Do List:

edit - history - watch - purge

Join WikiProject transhumanism and be bold

Show off a userbox with {{userWPA}} or {{userWPA2}} and attract potential members
Help with articles.
See this month's adopt an article.
Help out with the To-do lists

Be consistent

Use a "standard" layout for transhumanism related articles (see: The perfect article, and Featured articles)
Add Transhumanism navigation template on the bottom of all transhumanism articles; (use {{Transhumanism}} or see navigation template)
Add Transhumanism info box to all transhumanism related talk pages (use {{Wpa}} or see info box)
Add [[Category:transhumanism]] to the bottom of all transhumanism related articles, so it shows up on the list of transhumanism articles

Maintenance / Etc

Find/cite sources for all positions of an article (see citing sources.
Try to expand stubs, however, some "new" articles may be neologisms, as this is common with positions on theories on life and may be suitable for deletion (see deletion process)
Watch the list of transhumanism related articles and add to accordingly (see transhumanism articles)
And always write for an encyclopedia.

Create

Notable transhumanist articles

Shorten / merge into others

Expand

a transhumanism stub

Your immediate attention

false choice into false dilemma - discuss whether you are for or against this merge here
Clarify references in Transhumanism, using footnotes.

Unreferenced articles

This article was provided with references by an Unreferenced articles project volunteer on 17 November 2019. If you edit this page, please build on the good work by citing your sources.Unreferenced articlesWikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced articlesTemplate:WikiProject Unreferenced articlesUnreferenced articles

Important notice: Some common points of argument are addressed at Wikipedia's Evolution FAQ, which represents the consensus of editors here.

Do not feed the trolls!
This article or its talk page has experienced trolling. The subject may be controversial or otherwise objectionable, but it is important to keep discussion on a high level. Do not get bogged down in endless debates that don't lead anywhere. Know when to deny recognition and refer to WP:PSCI, WP:FALSEBALANCE, WP:WIKIVOICE, or relevant notice-boards. Legal threats and trolling are never allowed!

Archives

Index

Archive 1	Archive 2	Archive 3
Archive 4	Archive 5	Archive 6

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by when more than 5 sections are present.

Stone tools section in evidences

The stone tools section inside evidences is really similar to the section about stone tool making above. They should be merged, or a section should be included inside the previous fossil record section. Theklan (talk) 18:36, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/999392

New fossil discovered in turkey which states that early apes could have migrated from Europe to Africa Copperbasalt (talk) 05:05, 27 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The link you provided is a press release summarizing Sevim-Erol et al., 2023, which describes Ouranopithecus turkae. I don't think it provides anything useful for this article. Daask (talk) 00:11, 6 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Photo error?

On the Species List near the bottom of the article, under Ardipithecus, mouse over A. kadabba and A. ramidus - they have the same skull photo. Did their skulls really look identical or is this an error?
Thank you for your time, Wordreader (talk) 08:00, 6 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

number of chromosomes in hominid

Hi can you explain to me how the fusion of two chromosomes is dated about 1 million years ago and we put to Lucy the hominid family are hominid 46 or 48 chromosomes 218.215.147.9 (talk) 05:34, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Removal of 2023 Study

The 2023 study "A new ape from Türkiye and the radiation of late Miocene hominines" by David R. Begun and others was recently removed due to WP:UNDUE, yet no actual explanation was given as to why the study or sources related to explaining it were removed. The study is published in Communications Biology, and thoroughly details how hominines may have originated in Europe based off an analysis of Anadoluvius, and which would not be far fetched whatsoever, considering the debated origins of hominines and also the discovery of Graecopithecus. An earlier study from 2010 detailing a new primate titled "New Oligocene primate from Saudi Arabia and the divergence of apes and Old World monkeys", also from Nature, yet this new one is WP:UNDUE? Reaper1945 (talk) 10:26, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because it's exactly one study that makes a claim totally divergent from universal academic consensus—that is the definition of WP:FRINGE. Lacking any secondary support or follow-up, it should not be given any mention in the article. Remsense ‥ 论 10:30, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There are studies prior to 2023 pointing to hominine origins in Europe or Eurasia, such as Anoiapithecus in 2009,^[1] the 2017 study regarding Graecopithecus,^[2] in 2021 which dates the Trachilos footprints in Crete in Europe to be ever older than previously believed.^[3] The Eurasian theory has been a competing one for quite a while, and has support through the existence of Dryopithecini and the studies listed, considering as well that Charles Darwin acknowledged Dryopithecus as being directly opposed to a hominine origin in Africa.^[4] The only issue is a lack of follow-up, though the study released just in 2023. Reaper1945 (talk) 12:32, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Had already started a dicussion at Talk:Early expansions of hominins out of Africa, @Skllagyook and Generalrelative: inviting to a renewed dispute here.

You had made similar attempts at Talk:Recent African origin of modern humans/Archive 4 which were clearly rejected as FRINGE. Gotitbro (talk) 20:28, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. I'll just reiterate that I see this as an "Alternative theoretical formulation", which is still FRINGE but less fringey than, say, folks pushing the existence of Bigfoot or the efficacy of homeopathy. It may have a place in the article if and when it is taken up for discussion in mainstream secondary sources. If all we have right now are one or two recent primary studies, we can wait for inclusion until secondary sources take notice. There is, after all, no rush, and our job is not to be a platform for breaking news, scientific or otherwise. Generalrelative (talk) 21:24, 29 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ Moyà-Solà, Salvador; Alba, David M.; Almécija, Sergio; Casanovas-Vilar, Isaac; Köhler, Meike; De Esteban-Trivigno, Soledad; Robles, Josep M.; Galindo, Jordi; Fortuny, Josep (2009-06-16). "A unique Middle Miocene European hominoid and the origins of the great ape and human clade". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. 106 (24): 9601–9606. doi:10.1073/pnas.0811730106. ISSN 0027-8424. PMC 2701031. PMID 19487676.
^ Fuss, Jochen; Spassov, Nikolai; Begun, David R.; Böhme, Madelaine (2017-05-22). "Potential hominin affinities of Graecopithecus from the Late Miocene of Europe". PLoS ONE. 12 (5): e0177127. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0177127. ISSN 1932-6203. PMC 5439669. PMID 28531170.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
^ Kirscher, Uwe; El Atfy, Haytham; Gärtner, Andreas; Dallanave, Edoardo; Munz, Philipp; Niedźwiedzki, Grzegorz; Athanassiou, Athanassios; Fassoulas, Charalampos; Linnemann, Ulf; Hofmann, Mandy; Bennett, Matthew; Ahlberg, Per Erik; Böhme, Madelaine (2021-10-11). "Age constraints for the Trachilos footprints from Crete". Scientific Reports. 11: 19427. doi:10.1038/s41598-021-98618-0. ISSN 2045-2322. PMC 8505496. PMID 34635686.
^ Begun, David R.; Nargolwalla, Mariam C.; Kordos, László (2012). "European Miocene Hominids and the Origin of the African Ape and Human Clade". Evolutionary Anthropology: Issues, News, and Reviews. 21 (1): 10–23. doi:10.1002/evan.20329. ISSN 1060-1538.

[1] Moyà-Solà, Salvador; Alba, David M.; Almécija, Sergio; Casanovas-Vilar, Isaac; Köhler, Meike; De Esteban-Trivigno, Soledad; Robles, Josep M.; Galindo, Jordi; Fortuny, Josep (2009-06-16). "A unique Middle Miocene European hominoid and the origins of the great ape and human clade". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America. 106 (24): 9601–9606. doi:10.1073/pnas.0811730106. ISSN 0027-8424. PMC 2701031. PMID 19487676.

[2] Fuss, Jochen; Spassov, Nikolai; Begun, David R.; Böhme, Madelaine (2017-05-22). "Potential hominin affinities of Graecopithecus from the Late Miocene of Europe". PLoS ONE. 12 (5): e0177127. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0177127. ISSN 1932-6203. PMC 5439669. PMID 28531170.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)

[3] Kirscher, Uwe; El Atfy, Haytham; Gärtner, Andreas; Dallanave, Edoardo; Munz, Philipp; Niedźwiedzki, Grzegorz; Athanassiou, Athanassios; Fassoulas, Charalampos; Linnemann, Ulf; Hofmann, Mandy; Bennett, Matthew; Ahlberg, Per Erik; Böhme, Madelaine (2021-10-11). "Age constraints for the Trachilos footprints from Crete". Scientific Reports. 11: 19427. doi:10.1038/s41598-021-98618-0. ISSN 2045-2322. PMC 8505496. PMID 34635686.

[4] Begun, David R.; Nargolwalla, Mariam C.; Kordos, László (2012). "European Miocene Hominids and the Origin of the African Ape and Human Clade". Evolutionary Anthropology: Issues, News, and Reviews. 21 (1): 10–23. doi:10.1002/evan.20329. ISSN 1060-1538.

[1]

[2]

[3]

[4]