Talk:Isaac the Syrian

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Cleanup

This article lacks citations and also treats unverifiable "facts" as truth. It is also clear that it was written by someone who has not studied Isaac extensively. When I get the chance, I'll edit/rewrite the article.Grailknighthero (talk) 14:14, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I added or Bahrain to a possible location of birth. For more information, see Hansbury, Mary. St. Isaac of Nineveh on the Ascetical Life. St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1989.

Bet Qatraye is a region which includes Bahrain, Qatar, and portions of Eastern Arabia.Grailknighthero (talk) 02:13, 7 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can anybody confirm whether or not this guy was sainted? Some of the google hits call him "St. Isaac of Nineveh", but Brittanica refers to him as Isaac of Nineveh. Given the sources, I deferred to Britannica when I wrote this stub, but it really isn't my area of expertise. --Scimitar ^parley 15:31, 25 August 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- He is a saint in the Eastern Orthodox Church. I am not sure about the Assyrian Church of the East Grailknighthero (talk) 05:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The Catholic Encyclopedia calls him "Isaac of Nineveh" where he was bishop for some months. An inappropriate descriptor. Everyone else calls him Isaac the Syrian don't they? --Wetman 20:45, 22 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

- It is not an inappropriate descriptor. Not everyone calls him by Isaac the Syrian. It is common among scholarly circles to call him Isaac of Nineveh because he was bishop of Nineveh. One is named after their bishopric. Grailknighthero (talk) 05:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I just was given an icon made at "St. Isaac of Syria Skete". I'm guessing he's a saint in the Assyrian Church of the East in the same way that Pontius Pilate is in the Oriental Orthodox Churches or Charles I is in the Anglican Communion. Carolynparrishfan 02:11, 16 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

He appears to be an Orthodox saint. Check out the skete's website at [1]. Carolynparrishfan 02:14, 16 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

- St. Isaac of Syrian Skete is an Eastern Orthodox Monastery in Boscobell, Wisconsin. It is not Assyrian Church of the East.Grailknighthero (talk) 05:03, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

?

St. Isaac THE SYRIAN is venerated in all Eastern Orthodox Churches. We never refer to him as "of Nineveh" - Also, there is no source provided, nor none I can find in any materials related to this saint which even remotely suggest that he was Nestorian, so unless you can source it, that language that weasel-words him in to "maybe" "possibly" being nestorian should be removed. A Nestorian wouldn't be venerated by all The Orthodox (& Roman Catholic) churches. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.51.138.62 (talk) 03:50, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

- You are wrong when you say that the Orthodox never refer to him as "of Nineveh." True, in the Calendar of Saints he is listed as Isaac the Syrian and he is usually called Isaac the Syrian in other places, but some Orthodox scholars acknowledge that He is also called "of Nineveh." Proof? See above, Mary Hansbury's book is published by SVS Press. Yes, Nestorian should be removed because Isaac and the Church of the East were not Nestorian. As Sebastian Brock suggests, the Church of the East should be labeled as "Theodoran." But there is one chapter within the Second Part, Chapter 11, in which Isaac's Christology is definitely expressed in Theodoran/East Syrian terms. But as far as I know, this is the ONLY chapter within Part I and II in which Isaac's Christology is not compatible with Orthodox Chalcedonian Christology.Grailknighthero (talk) 05:12, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Bahrain and Qatar

I've removed a bunch of Bahrain and Qatar cats. Being possibly born in that region more that a thousand years ago doesn't imply that he can be considered Bahraini. --Rafy talk 08:08, 8 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Saying that Isaac was Bahrani is as anachronic as claiming that Jesus was Palestinian of that Muhammad was Saudi. Please Ashraf discus you're rationale before including the cat.--Rafy talk 11:50, 26 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Birth and death

As of now, Isaac's exact date of birth and death are unknown. His birth place is known, but I could find only two references stating his date of birth - one states it as 613, and the other states it as 640. I am in a conundrum as to which of them should be included, or if any of them should be included at all. Furthermore, his date of death seems to be a wild guess - but I was able to find multiple (at least 3) notable sources stating his date of death as 700, so it seems to be a generally accepted date.

On another note, his place of death appears to somewhere in Iran. The Quotable Saint and The Encyclopedia of Christian Literature - Volume 2 states it as Rabban Shabur. This makes me wonder why it is currently listed as Nineveh. Elspamo4 (talk) 12:46, 17 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 27 March 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It was proposed in this section that Isaac of Nineveh be renamed and moved to Isaac the Syrian.

result:
Moved per consensus seen below. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; everyone stay healthy! P.I. Ellsworth , ed. ^{put'er there} 19:20, 11 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move logs: source title · target title

This is template {{subst:Requested move/end}}

Isaac of Nineveh → Isaac the Syrian – While Isaac is known with both the titles "of Nineveh" and "the Syrian", he is better known as "The Syrian" both in old and modern times. There is no one place I can cite for this, but any small amount of research into him will make this obvious. Swehlam (talk) 01:15, 27 March 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. ❯❯❯ Raydann ^(Talk) 09:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. –Zfish118^⋉talk 13:09, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GEDSH prefer "of Nineveh". Srnec (talk) 13:24, 28 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Biography has been notified of this discussion. ❯❯❯ Raydann ^(Talk) 09:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Christianity has been notified of this discussion. ❯❯❯ Raydann ^(Talk) 09:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Western Asia has been notified of this discussion. ❯❯❯ Raydann ^(Talk) 09:37, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: A preponderance of reliable sources should be provided to substantiate the current or proposed name (ie, a brief list of the name each sources uses, if there is no source that directly states the most common or appropriate description). –Zfish118^⋉talk 13:13, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move: per sources found in article already. ~ Pbritti (talk) 14:56, 3 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Move per existing sources, as Pbritti notes. Arbitrarily0 ^(talk) 14:23, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article name

I've missed the name change conversation, but it'll be worth bearing in mind should it come up for discussion again that (a) Isaac is more commonly referred to as 'Isaac of Nineveh' than 'Isaac the Syrian' in academic literature, especially in the literature on him that's begun to proliferate since the 1980s (e.g. books by Sebastian Brock (1995 and 2022), Sabino Chialà (2002, in Italian), Patrik Hagman (2010), Nestor Kavvadas (2015, in German), Jason Scully (2017), Benedict Vesa (2018), and Valentina Duca (2023); counterexamples such as Hilarion Alfeyev (2015, ed.) and Mary Hansbury (2016) are overall fewer); and (b) 'Isaac the Syrian' is more ambiguous than 'Isaac of Nineveh', since there are at least two other Isaacs who are sometimes referred to as 'Isaac the Syrian', namely Isaac of Antioch (e.g. by Brian Daley, The Hope of the Early Church (1991) p. 174) and Isaac of Spoleto. 131.111.5.135 (talk) 15:01, 31 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Don't use 'Directions on Spiritual Training' as a source

I've just removed from the article some assertions based on excerpts from a text called 'Directions on Spiritual Training'. This text, while ostensibly by Isaac, is not a legitimate primary source by scholarly standards; it is in fact an English translation of a Russian collection of texts supposedly by Isaac whose provenance is unclear. References should be restricted to English editions of the 'First Part' (Wensinck or Miller), 'Second Part' (Brock), 'Third Part' (Hansbury), and possibly 'Fifth Part' (Chialà). 86.21.160.162 (talk) 09:37, 21 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Canonization in The Catholic Church

The article cited never says he is canonized by the Catholic Church, the author simply calls him a saint to be eccumenical rather than being honest about the Catholic Church's position The best sources for canonizations are the Catholic Martyrologies and sources saying someone has been formally canonized. This is a reccuring problem I've seen here where people are incorrectly cited as having been canonized in the Catholic Church. 2600:1702:CC7:1A20:C8F0:95D7:5A11:1B3B (talk) 00:48, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What were the details of his teachings?

This article goes into great detail about the extant manuscripts, but very little detail as to his actual teachings and what was unique about them. Jimhoward72 (talk) 07:23, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Veneration in the Oriental Church

Issac might not have been venerated in the Oriental Church, The name "Isaac the Syrian" was historically associated with two different Isaacs, an Isaac of Nineveh from the 7th Century. And an Isaac of Antioch from the 5th Century. Isaac of Nineveh is not venerated, he was ACoE and was part of the Nestorian camp, and was a big proponent of doctrine such universalism among other things. He is only venerated in the Assyrian Church of the East, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the Roman Catholic Church. But not Oriental Orthodox. GaelCaitliceach☦ (talk) 17:32, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]