Talk:James Stewart, 1st Earl of Moray

Death date

If he died on the 11th then why does the main page say "on this day [the 23rd] in 1570" he died? A quick, and not very thorough, Google search revealed a site that states the 23rd is an alternative death date, however it looks like its a copy of this article. 174.112.18.193 (talk) 07:02, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

James Hamilton (assassin) says the assassination took place on the 23rd. However, James I of England states that the Earl of Moray was killed on the 22nd. All three dates are cited to offline sources, so I can't verify any of them. howcheng {chat} 07:52, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

It does says 11 Jan in Fraser, but that is just an error. Spottiswood's History is the usual source, and on-line.Unoquha (talk) 09:13, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Where do you have the source that says Fraser got the date wrong. Spottiswood's work was published in 1851! Fraser, whose biography on Mary Stuart was meticulously sourced, published her book in 1969. One has to be extremely careful with 19th century material. What does the Complete Peerage say? A Google search comes up with 11 Janary, 20 January, 21 January, 22 January, and 23 January. We need to get this sorted out. BTW, Saturday in the leading sentence does nor conform to Wikipedia's MOS.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:59, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Apart from Spottiswood, another source which shows that Fraser's date is unlikely to be correct is a letter Moray wrote from Stirling on 20 January 1570, it is noted in Calendar State Papers Scotland, vol. 3, (1903), 56. Elizabeth heard that he was shot but without news of his death on 29 Jan. These are other sources.Unoquha (talk) 10:14, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Had Moray written a letter on 20 January, he would have dated it 1569 as the new year did not begin until around 25 March. The 20 January date though does give weight to the 23rd having been the actual date. I am only interested in discovering the true precise date, I don't have an agenda in defending Fraser.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:27, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

As an idle thought, as I have not looked at any of these sources, is there any chance of this being an Old Style/New Style confusion? Excuse me if that's a dumb question.... Terry J. Carter (talk) 14:08, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

Is this the E. Moray of ballad fame?

Is this the Earl of Moray who is the subject of the ballad which goes in part:

You Highlands and you Lowlands, where have you been? They have ta'en the Earl o' Moray and laid him on the green....

If so, that's worth a mention in the main article, I think.

Btw, that ballad is notable among musicians as the eponymous example of a "mondegreen," a mis-hearing of lyrics, since some heard (and proceeded to sing) "laid him on the green" as "Lady Mondegreen."

Terry J. Carter (talk) 14:15, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

No, this was actually his son-in-law, James Stewart, 2nd Earl of Moray. PatGallacher (talk) 16:09, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

First assassination by firearm?

Obviously many people had been killed by muskets, cannons, arquebus', etc before him, but I read an essay of dubious notability that stated the Earl of Moray was the first person of influence killed as a political act by a gun. If this is true it's certainly an interesting fact worthy of inclusion, yes? 107.3.44.127 (talk) 00:37, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Yes it should be included.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:29, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

Actually it is already mentioned in the article under the appropriate Death section.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 05:31, 13 June 2012 (UTC)