Talk:Joan of England

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Disambiguation

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move(d) - re Wiki convention re royal consorts; plus see how her sisters are listed (all incorrectly anyway to my mind) Mowens35 19:58, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Three Joans

I have redirected Joan Plantagenet, Queen of Scotland to this page, and placed all three biographies on this page. I now explain my reasons for doing so: 1. As per wikipedia's conventions for the naming of royal consorts: "Past Royal Consorts are referred to by their pre-marital name or pre-marital title, not by their consort name, as without an ordinal (which they lack) it is difficult to distinguish various consorts; eg, as there have been many queen consorts called Catherine, use Catherine of Aragon not Queen Catherine." All three Joans were born (legitimately or otherwise) into the English royal family and all three married foreign rulers.

2. The article "Joan Plantagenet, Queen of Scotland" violates wikipedia naming convention in two ways: firstly, it lists Joan as Queen of Scotland not as a Princess of England, as per above; and secondly, it gives her the surname "Plantagenet", a retroactively applied name that would never have been used during her own lifetime.

3. The third Joan, though illegitimate, was later legitimated by papal decree and as the consort of a reigning monarch she is at least as notable as her half-brother Richard Fitz Roy, who likewise has his own article. Missi 01:39, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Regardless of naming conventions, these four women need disambiguation. The current page is silly, having a fairly fully formed bio of the first Joan, a stubby bio of the second, and what are essentially dab links for the other two. I suggest turning Joan of England into a dab page, with links to:

Any better suggestions for naming the first two would be welcomed. ::Supergolden:: 15:57, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Page changed to dab following lack of objection and WP:BOLD. 'Consort' dropped from article names as per discussion at Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (names and titles)#Joan of England ::Supergolden:: 13:54, 10 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Disambiguation page

I have converted the page to be more consistent with WP:MOSDAB. A question: are readers going to get to this page when they are looking for the last two Joan's (Wales and Tower)? Would they enter Joan of England for these? If yes, wouldn't the same be said of Joan of Kent?

I've also copied the Sicily project tag to Joan of England, Queen consort of Sicily. I'm not quite bold enough to delete it here. John (Jwy) 18:37, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

...and, there are several links to this page that should be disambiguated. I've started. Click "what links here" on the article page to see what articles need changing. I've started, but I'm not sure I will last to the end. John (Jwy) 19:07, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

...and, finally, Joan Plantagenet redirects here. Is there but one Joan Plantagenet or are there several. It seems at various points we have the following four claiming the name:

daughter (1335-1348) of Edward III of England
daughter (? - ?) daughter of the same Edward III and Alice Perrers
daughter (1165-1199) of Henry II (Joan of England, Queen consort of Sicily)
daughter (1210-1238) of John (Joan of England, Queen consort of Scotland)

Is there "officially" only one, and if so, which. And if not, what is a good way to disambiguate them.

John (Jwy) 23:54, 14 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Good work. I don't know about 'official', but all these could equally be called 'Joan Plantagenet', although this is a retropectively applied surname. Even the other Joans (Wales and Tower) could also be referred to by this name, being Joans of the house of Plantagenet. Maybe this needs to be a separate DAB page covering the above? ::Supergolden:: 08:36, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]