Talk:Kariong, New South Wales

Gosford glyphs

I've restored the earlier version. Some of it was copyvio from [1]. Exposure Magazine, now called Hard Evidence, is a UFO magazine[2] and clearly not a suitable source. Ray Johnson was not an Egyptologist. Nor is von Sneff who doesn't claim a PhD on his Facebook page, just PhD studies in modern languages.[3]. See also [4]. Dougweller (talk) 07:37, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I repeat, von Sneff has no qualifications in Egyptology and does not claim to have a PhD, only to be doing PhD studies - saying that he is a PhD is a BLP violation. The statement "Dr von Senff, a graduated from the University of Newcastle with a PhD in 2006 states that, ‘‘the reason no one has found it (the chamber) is because no one has been looking for it.’’ He then went on to say that, ‘‘Australia was discovered in the Third Dynasty (about 5000 years ago). The Egyptians landed at Cape York Peninsula and moved south’’ is sourced to “Eternal Egypt” Masterpieces of ancient Art from the British Museum. British Museum Press, 2002 -- pretty clearly the BM isn't qoing to be quoting him in any case, and certainly not in 2002.

The sentence "Professor Nageeb Kanawati of Macquarie University and rock art conservation specialist David Lambert, the National Parks and Wildlife Service believe that ‘‘the hieroglyphs are not genuine and were constructed in the early 1980s’" is cited to "“The Tutankhamen Exhibit - Other Items”, Tour Egypt" (which doesn't seem to have this) and Feder. However, it is still copyvio from [5]. The editor in question has a long history of copy and paste from the web and I've reverted other more major copyvio of his and have initiated a discussion of his edits. Dougweller (talk) 09:39, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

(ec)The content was restored and copyedited, but still contained some WP:SYNTH. For example, the purported translation of the glyphs is not at the source used, which simply teaches how to read hieroglyphs and doesn't have a direct translation. The translation was made by Rex Gilroy, who is the only person in the world (apparently) able to translate the glyphs. It's a partial translation at best, the glyphs are extensive. --AussieLegend (✉) 09:42, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. In any case, I've restored the earlier version. I've taken the editor to ANI now as he has also restored copyvio to another article where I'd removed it. I would have blocked him myself if I had come across the other stuff first, but as I reverted him first here for reasons not just including copyvio, he might complain I was biased. Dougweller (talk) 09:55, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

We now have Wikipedia stating as fact "The carvings mark the burial site of Lord Nefer-ti-ru, the Son of Khufu, who was the King of Upper and Lower Egypt. The hieroglyphs tell the story of early Egyptian explorers, injured and stranded in Australia. Nefer-ti-ru, a member of the Egyptian royal family, died in the area whilst on a journey with his brother Nefer-Djeseb, along Australia’s east coast." This is sourced to "Sacred Sites of Ancient Egypt” An illustrated Guide to the Temples and Tombs of the Pharaohs.Hermes House, Imprint of Annes Publishing Ldt. London," and although it doesn't say it is by Lorna Oakes, a writer of books for children and young adults.[6] Not really a reliable source and in any case I doubt very much that she makes this claim about Australia. I'd love a quote from it - a search on the title with the word Australia shows nothing!

The next sentence (still in Wikipedia's voice) is "The glyphs are of pre-dynastic Egypt (4,500 years ago). They are a primitive prototype of Old Egyptian and Middle Egyptian glyphs and tell their meaning by their illustration alone. The glyphs translate as;" with a translation. The translation is by von Senff who has no qualifications in Egyptology (as I keep saying) and should not be used as a source. I note that the editor is not responding here to defend or explain his sources. Dougweller (talk) 10:39, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Lionhead99 (talk) Can I at least update the old & dated Glyph section (with the help of these sources)? It seems vague and rather empty at most. Yes Doug, I did sense some bias in you. So it was so unfair and uncalled for you to threaten me with a block. It is rather informative, fringe or not, for Wiki to tell us the alleged date (even if it's a fact or not).

The block warning was solely for copyvio. How does von Sneff meet WP:RS and WP:VERIFY. What does ""Sacred Sites of Ancient Egypt” An illustrated Guide to the Temples and Tombs of the Pharaohs" say about Australia(and on what page, you need to give page numbers for books)? What does "“The Tutankhamen Exhibit - Other Items”, Tour Egypt" say about Australia? The old version before you reverted (now reinstated) said "claimed to be authentic proto-Dynastic script carved by Egyptians about 5000 years ago." so I don't understand your comment on the alleged date. Dougweller (talk) 11:02, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

All this previously discussed fringe material was added in again by an IP on 13 July, which I have reverted - with an invitation to discuss proposals here.(Moved comment to right spot) Nickm57 (talk) 19:28, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Just some thoughts

I must admit, my thoughts on this are coloured by my own investigations into the glyphs. I visited the site in 2005 with my wife, who worked at the local cinema in Raymond Terrace. When she mentioned the glyphs to a colleague, the colleague revealed that she used to picnic near them (there's a great lookout site just above the glyphs) in the 1940s. The alleged "tomb" is a case of natural erosion. There are a couple of rock slabs that appear to have been put in place place by human hands that stop soil from being washed down into the "tomb" entrance, so all of the soil under 2 or 3 massive boulders (I'd be surprised of they weren't several hundred tonnes each) has been washed away leaving a quite impressive cavity. A few hundred metres below the site are the stumps of a house that used to be there early in the 20th century and all the evidence that I could find pointed to the glyphs being carved by a former resident, who just happened to be a returned WWI soldier who had been stationed in (drum roll) Egypt. Since they were originally carved, there have been numerous additions and re-carvings. One of the additions was the ancient Egyptian hieroglyph for a 14 pin, dual-in-line integrated circuit that I mentioned at WP:AWNB. As I also mentioned, the "translation" of the glyphs originated with Rex Gilroy, who was the only person in the world able to translate them. --AussieLegend (✉) 12:09, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

I just looked at the article after it was mentioned on WP:FTN, and there seems to be a contradiction in the text I don't understand, namely "Protodynastic" vs. "Khufu". Which are they claimed to be? Til Eulenspiegel /talk/ 21:54, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Hard to tell since the now blocked editor(for multiple copyvio and ignoring copyvio warnings) messed up the article, moving sources so they no longer applied to text, using an amateur as a source, etc. The sources attached to the claims mention neither. I'll look later to see what Ray Johnson claimed. Dougweller (talk) 05:19, 30 June 2013 (UTC)