Talk:M. Larry Lawrence

Contributor Xenophrenic wants to remove this bit below, arguing it's redundant. I reverted his cut, as this information is nowhere else in the text:

It was later revealed that Lawrence lied extensively during his confirmation hearing, as well as much of his political career, making up stories about his alleged service in World War II and alleged heroism in a sinking off Murmansk, Russia, as well as his membership of a Nobel Prize advisory committee. [1], Steyn Online, April 12, 2014 + In October 1993, U.S. President Bill Clinton announced his intention to nominate Lawrence to be U.S. Ambassador to Switzerland and his intention to appoint Shelia Davis Lawrence to be Special U.S. Representative to the World Conservation Union.White House Press Release; October 25, 1993 He was confirmed as ambassador in March 1994.State Department file - Lawrence; Office of the Historian − − "I was 18 years old," Lawrence told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee at his confirmation hearing in November 1993, "and I was on board the SS Horace Bushnell in a convoy to Murmansk, which was an all-volunteer run known as the suicide mission. We were torpedoed 15 miles off of Murmansk. I was just coming out of the hole and everybody down below was killed. I was thrown clear. I am told -- I have no memory of what happened that thereafter I suffered a serious concussion and was taken in a coma, subsequently, after going in the water, to Murmansk, then Scotland, and back to New York and home. It is something that I do not particularly relish remembering for the record," he told then-Sen. Harlan Mathews (D-Tenn.). The Russian government in January 1993 awarded Lawrence a medal for his sacrifice. "I told them to mail me the medal," he said, "but my wife insisted that we have the ceremony."[2], Washington Post, January 5, 1998

The article already notes his fabrications and subsequent disinternment:

Questions were raised in 1997 about the life of Lawrence, and President Clinton ordered an investigation into whether Lawrence had lied about his military service in World War II. Congressional investigators searched military records and could not corroborate Lawrence's claims of wartime service in the Merchant Marine, or his alleged rank of "Seaman, First Class" or presence during the torpedoing of the ship SS Horace Bushnell.[9][10] On December 12, 1997, at the request of Lawrence's widow, his body was disinterred and brought to California.

Is there a reason for including the lengthy quotation, which is already summarized? I've also removed the part from non-reliable source Steyn. Please find reliable sources for any additional information you'd like to add. Regards, Xenophrenic (talk) 00:56, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

I believe there is. The way the last part is currently phrased underrates the extent to which the man was, by all accounts, a serial liar. He didn't simply lie: he used these massive lies, insulting to any real veteran, for self-promotion. This New York Times article has even more detail, on how inventions went well beyond his imaginary war record: http://www.nytimes.com/1997/12/12/us/body-and-tombstone-of-lies-are-removed.html?ref=topics&pagewanted=2. I'm not sure I see the point of removing info from readers, especially from an entry which is already short and lacking in context, and respectfully ask you to reconsider your view. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aussiesta (talk • contribs) 06:28, 3 July 2016 (UTC)

Do we have reliable sources which convey that, other than his military service, he lied for self-promotion? The NYTimes says they gave him the Ambassador position even though they couldn't verify his military record. I see where the NYTimes article says, "During his 69-year lifetime, Mr. Lawrence fabricated his World War II heroics, his education, how he made his fortune before buying and restoring the Hotel del Coronado, even the history of the hotel", and also, "Mr. Lawrence's myth making apparently extended to his hotel. He said that L. Frank Baum wrote part of The Wizard of Oz at the hotel (he did not) and that Thomas Edison supervised the wiring of parts of the hotel (he did not). And he often claimed that he was a completely self-made man." But I don't see where he, to use your words, used these massive lies for self-promotion. I have no problem adding encyclopedic (even negative or unflattering) content about the person, but I don't see what the lengthy quote adds. I'll dig around and see what other sources I can come up with. Xenophrenic (talk) 10:36, 3 July 2016 (UTC)