Talk:Mind uploading

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Uploaded astronaut was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 September 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Mind uploading. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

This article was nominated for deletion on 30 March 2009 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep.

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Brandon Keim (2009-04-01). "Save Mind Uploading From Wikipedia Doom". Wired Science.

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Pop-culture

Is a section specifically discussing the topic in popular culture and/or media suitable or appropriate for inclusion in this article? -- dsprc ^[talk] 20:36, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well there already is Mind uploading in fiction so I'm not sure what that section would feature? (Note that if "Mind uploading in fiction" isn't large enough in scope it could be moved to "Mind uploading in popular culture".) --Fixuture (talk) 22:11, 2 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Speedup

In the section "Speedup" it is stated that in the future, transistors will have reached sub-atomic size. It is impossible for a transistor to be sub-atomic. The effects of an electron moving from one type of atom to another is what make transistors and other semiconductor components work. 71.29.14.207 (talk) 11:01, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've cut the entire section as blatant OR. Subatomic transistors, what on earth ... - David Gerard (talk) 13:56, 2 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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The problem of immortality

Should this section be removed? There are no citations and is an opinion yet frames that opinion using factual terminology.

It also contradictes the overview section's sources re: a mind follows biological laws and does not arise from some magical or otherworldly quality.

I'm unsure how to proceed as I personally disagree with the opinion and 'two wrongs don't make a right'.

Paul (talk) 02:46, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

yes. moved here, below Jytdog (talk) 03:28, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Cyborg Immortality

A more realistic possibility but far from fiction would be the use of cyborg brains that help and learn from the biological brain, its function is to preserve the brain's memories and other mental information, however the cyborg brain would always be dependent on a new biological brain, to 'visualize' your content, it is not a file container but a brain that, when connecting with the person, becomes part of them, a single mind, but it would be the most realistic conception of mind upload, and when better the fidelity of the brain cyborg with a real brain, better the preservation of the mind, however its objective is to preserve the memory and feeling of continuity is not the same person, the new 'user' could still refuse or accept something, but now learning from the inside point of view.

There is no very realistic reference to this idea, it is 100% invasive to the point of opening the brain and placing a 3rd part completely connected to the volunteer, but in a vague way this concept of immortality is addressed in the series Altered Carbon (TV series) and Avatar (2009 film), however, the connection between the mind and the computer is still very distant and we are unable to transmit and receive thoughts directly from the computer to produce essential technologies in this concept such as Deep_Oniric_Reality referring to the machine from the film Inception 2010 (video game dream), a connected Cyborg_Brain, reference Positronic brain and Bicentennial Man (film), remotely with a Cyborg-Telepresent, reference Surrogates, and needless to say more studies on the biological brain.

The upload would not be instantaneous or in a few hours, having an interface with maximum connection, 10k neurons is basic, and maximum time (to replicated learning) would be ideal, Between 200 and 10 thousand years based on current R&D pace and research focused on this methodology and double experts could reduce the estimate to around 20 to 100 years, expert as in general, Biomedical engineering and Neuroscience, and several necessary subspecializations such as Computer engineering, Computer science, Neuromorphic engineering, neurocomputing, cyborg Mechatronics, etc..., a premature technology of this type could be the size of entire buildings, as these years pass, the technology can be updated to smaller, more resistant versions, in a cyborg-brain cloud and more resistant to the destruction of bodies.

current technology still looks like a calculator from the stone age trying to trap consciousness in a gear, we still haven't learned how to make 3d circuits, they are printed like a sheet, I'm not that expert to define the criteria but when at least we get a technology that can moving consciousness from a real brain to a computer dream Black Museum (Black Mirror) before that is just an improved memory store, that is if the philosopher doesn't worry that there is no real immortality just how much information is preserved, then the displacement of consciousness would just be a gentler, more continuous tranzition; More realistic than that, one must seek biological immortality for longevity, but this results will take longer than the computerized one and only for the person to have a more comfortable old age, and believe me, the pain will only accumulate, and extend a century's life, but health and Longevity would be your true body, these needs are maintained in a cyborg brain, the difference is that there is a legacy, but it is no different from leaving a book or film, but it is a clone of you, but works that address another side of the philosophical issue are The 6th Day and Soma (video game) from the point of view of copying.

I did not insert it in the main article as it is more of an insight question than a reference to ongoing research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.101.40.143 (talk) 18:26, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

unsourced section on immortality

moved here per WP:PRESERVE.

The problem of immortality

Though, in theory^{[further explanation needed]}, an uploaded, or copied version of an individual's brain would have the same memory and personality, the use of this process for eternal life (see Immortality) is in theory impossible for the simple reason that one would not be prolonging one's life, but simply creating another with the same experience. The creator, or original would feel no difference, and would still die of natural cause. In fact, the idea of mind uploading is likeable to cloning, and in the same way as a clone, the "copied" mind would not be the same as the origin, just a copy.^{[citation needed]}

-- Jytdog (talk) 03:28, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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New sensors and 22Na/40K enhancement

Hi, did some research and using both sodium-22 and potassium-40 it may be possible to image the actual neural firing patterns. In this case standard APD arrays (SiPM) would be utilized and this can be tested on a small scale with conventional sensors. The tricky part would be to calibrate each sensor so they are optimized for annihilation gamma rays eg 460-570keV.

I invented a way to actually concentrate potassium-40 which is the subject of a patent search. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.3.100.9 (talk) 08:06, 15 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Article title

I think that whole brain emulation is more generic than mind uploading (for example, I could in principle imagine an emulated brain which is "grown" from a "seed", similar as the human brain, but which isn't initialized by an uploaded copy of an actually existing human brain). Thus, it seems inaccurate that WBE is redirected to MU. If there is a redirection, then it should be the other way round. Any thoughts on this? Notyetborn (talk) 16:58, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know, all the sources on WBE are about "scanning" an existing brain and emulating it in a computer. Growing a generally intelligent mind in a computer just regular AI. Titles are decided by WP:COMMONNAME, which "mind uploading" appears to be. Crossroads ^-talk- 20:09, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for this! OK, let's stick to the community concensus. :-) Notyetborn (talk) 13:25, 11 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Updated?

Is the article updated to cover recent developments or progress towards mind uploading? CoffeeEnergy (talk) 11:18, 13 July 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly useful article mentioning practical difficulties

Hendricks, Michael. "The False Science of Cryonics". MIT Technology Review. Retrieved 2 February 2023.

This article is by a neuroscientist and assistant professor of biology, and could be useful as a source regarding practical difficulties that might keep the technology from ever coming to pass. Crossroads ^-talk- 00:52, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Outdated section?

The section "Political and economic implications" does not look so relevant anymore. Even if mind uploading already existed, it likely wouldn't be competitive with large multimodal models, that require much less compute and are already around human-level in many tasks. As it turns out, mind uploading is unlikely to really play a role in the economy. I propose to remove the section. Alenoach (talk) 17:48, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Alenoach The first paragraph has a speculative tone that could be improved, but I don't agree with your case for removal. The paragraph apparently mentions possibilities identified by two journal articles. Are you aware of comparable new sources dismissing them because of LLMs? WeyerStudentOfAgrippa (talk) 18:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What I think is most outdated is the aspect on the economy. Nowadays, mind uploading is rarely mentioned in the context of AGI. The political aspect can actually be still relevant though, so the section can arguably be kept. The 2022 source was added to support the idea that mind uploading could lead to more "inequalities and power struggles", not as a sign that it would "be preceded by a technological arms race driven by first-strike advantages". The book The Age of Em seems to talk about an economy of mind uploads, but it predates large language models. But if you think it's good to keep it, I won't insist. Alenoach (talk) 19:15, 2 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]