Talk:Oscar Niemeyer

Jewish German surname?

Niemeyer may be Jewish or not. His surname is a rural, agricultural, and quite common German name meaning new meyer. A meyer was a medieval administrator of agricultural land, appointed by the local nobleman. I do not see why this name should be classifed as Jewish German. 99.9% of all Niemeyers are not Jewish, and the name also has none of the characteristics typical for Jewish German names. Neither does it have a colorful intrinsic meaning (like Loewenstein), nor is it connected to Hebrew or specifically Jewish words (like Kahn (can refer to Cohen (Jewish origin) or to Kahn = German for ship (non Jewish origin))), nor does the name refer to a city (like Shapiro or Katzenellenbogen). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.179.24.218 (talk) 08:02, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

He was one of the most famous Brazilian atheists. He never declared having any Jewish ancestry: "Having multiple origins, the famous architect likes to emphasize his surnames and their origins: Ribeiro and Soares, Portuguese; Almeida, Arab; and Niemeyer, German. In spite of his Catholic family background, he declares to be atheist. His convictions, however, haven't prevented him from designing various sacred buildings." [1] ("De origens múltiplas, o que lhe agrada particularmente, o arquiteto mais famoso do país gosta de ressaltar os nomes e suas raízes: Ribeiro e Soares, portugueses; Almeida, árabe; e Niemeyer, alemão. Apesar das origens familiares católicas se diz ateu. Suas convicções, no entanto, não o impediram de projetar várias obras sacras.") —capmo (talk) 13:50, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Expansion

avsa alexandre van de sande - This page used to be a stub and I expanded it, as a part of a university work. I hope to find placeable pictures soon, as its difficult to talk about an architech withou seeing his work. I would be really greatfull to hear about you.

Di Cavalcanti?

About this part of the article: "in part due to its unorthodox form, in part due to the modern mural painted by Di Cavalcanti."

I believe the mural outside the church in Pampulha was painted by Candido Portinari, instead of Di Cavalcanti. --Milena 15:51, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

The mural outside is Portinari (unmistakable style!). There are the paintings of the via sacra too, and the altar, but I'm not sure if it's his too. I believe di Cavalcanti made the via sacra to the Brasília cathedral. -- NIC1138 00:11, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Brasilia

When exactly was the National Congress Building planned and built? The cathedral? The article has it dangling somewhere between late 50s and 1963, assuming chronological ordering of events was followed throughout.

From Brasilia:

Brasilia was built in 41 months, from 1956 to April 21, 1960 when it was officially inaugurated.

Samsara _contrib ^talk 12:36, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Fan page or encyclopedia article?

"Today, Niemeyer is over 98 and still discerning, active and brilliant" and similar quotes throughout the article are unsupported. Some editing in this regard wouldn't hurt. Oswald Glinkmeyer 02:59, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

His ethnicity

Was he Jewish? --1523 01:35, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, not really. Notice that his last (father's) name is Soares which is of Portuguese origin. Tsf 18:30, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone has written that he was born to Jewish parents - can someone verify this with a citation? --- The Wonky Gnome

I don't have the chance to link up at the moment, but there are many references to his Jewish heritage on-line that can be used. He has not been a religious man, however. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.161.60.171 (talk) 18:10, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

He was definitely not jewish, his ancestry was portuguese and german, see http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=524195 . He was not religious. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.176.166.229 (talk) 03:09, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Everybody knows that he was 100% Jewish: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS244&q=oscar+niemeyer+jewish&btnG=Search —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.61.223 (talk) 07:19, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Well, I do not know whether or not he is Jewish. But that there are entries when entering "oscar niemeyer jewish" into Google proves nothing. Especially if nobody knows whether or not he is Jewish, there will be speculations about this question on the internet. There are other cases like that: Oscar Morgenstern and Dave Brubeck were not jewish, but one finds many entries on the internet claiming otherwise. Either one has a positive proof, for example a specific, reliable website, or his religions remains undisclosed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.180.56.216 (talk) 20:10, 22 April 2011 (UTC)

His correct name

According to "Fundação Oscar Niemeyer" www.niemeyer.org.br his real name is "Oscar Niemeyer Soares Filho". This is the name on his official documents like ID card. However, according to Marcos Sá Correia, who wrote Niemeyer's biography, Niemeyer himself told him that his name was "Oscar Niemeyer Ribeiro de Almeida Soares". I really don't know why Niemeyer said a name that was not his "official" name. Acba 05:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Utilitarianism and POV

Who's ever said that he is an utilitarian? He is a formalist, but no utilitarian for sure. By the way, building beautiful but low functional performance buildings is precisely what he's been most criticized for. The claim makes no sense. Diegocunha

the article says "Although he was a defender of utilitarianism", and he did - in his autobiography.the article doesn't claim he is one. Artlondon 00:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

From his autobiography? So why not try "self proclaimed defender of utilitarianism" along with references? But I still doubt it without the possibilty of checking the "information". By the way, this whole paragraph hurts: "Although he was a defender of utilitarianism, his creations did not have the blocky coldness frequently criticized by post-modern critics. His buildings have forms so dynamic and curves so sensual" These adjectives sound like coming from an admirer. This article shouldn't have been nominated, for it lacks due references. It should be wikified -- Diegocunha 00:13, 1 December 2007 (UTC)

Removal of POV message

Thank you, The Wonky Gnome, for the changes in the opening paragraph. The whole article has acquired a better tone, for it has now room for both apraisal and critiques. As my main personal reasons of dispute have been settled, I'm removing the POV message. Perhaps it will be better to have two distinct sections for "legacy" and "criticism", so as to acommodate further contributions and citations. Great work guys! It's good to see the magic of collaboration happening. --Diegocunha 20:32, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Architect box instead of Person box

I'm changing the regular infobox to "architect box". Le Corbusier and others in Wikipedia are in "architect boxes". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jgsodre (talk • contribs) 04:04, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Hospitalisation quote

this quote: 'a very lonely thing; I needed to keep busy, keep in touch with friends, maintain my rhythm of life.': it's repeated as if he said it twice in two different hospitalisations. i don't think this is likely. FoCuSandLeArN (talk) 01:21, 12 August 2012 (UTC)

Oscar Niemeyer Auditorium Ravello

I have added a few sentences about this spectacular achievement of Niemeyer, so late in his life, partly to contest the idea that his 'powers' or 'inspiration' are fading, as is argued in the article, but also because the project is in a dramatic setting, was controversial but is a very impressive achievement. A photo should accompany the insertion, would someone who knows how to insert photos please do so? Many thanks PRC 07 (talk) 03:34, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for your contribution. Unfortunately we can't host an image of the Auditorium Ravello because of the absence of freedom of panorama in Italy, unless we get a free license release from Oscar Niemeyer. Also thanks to Sionk for wikifying the section. --ELEKHH^T 11:15, 26 August 2012 (UTC)

Thank you both. I will make a further change because the current text is out of date, the auditorium is now well and truly open, with a rich program of events. PRC 07 (talk) 09:16, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Unfortunately, saying the auditorium offers a "a rich program of musical and other cultural events" sounds like advertising, particularly when it is sourced to the auditorium's website. I've removed the comment. It would be better to find something that simply says when the auditorium fully opened. Sionk (talk) 09:27, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Summary of late period

I was adding notable late 20th century and 21st century projects from the List of Niemeyer's Works (see "See Also" at bottom of article). They are linked on that list but I did not know how to link them on the main article. --American in Brazil-- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.43.87.117 (talk) 23:03, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

The disputed edits are about the summary in the lead of Niemeyer's late period. The current text is "Niemeyer continued working at the end of the 20th and early 21st century, notably designing the Niterói Contemporary Art Museum (1996) and the Novo Museu (2002)" I reverted edits which were trying to replace the Niterói Contemporary Art Museum with the IMO less notable Popular Theater of Niterói or the Ibirapuera Auditorium. In the absence of access to a more reputable source, can still say that the obituaries in The Guardian and BBC, clearly single out the Niterói Contemporary Art Museum museum as the most significant from this period. --ELEKHH^T 23:54, 6 December 2012 (UTC)

I, for one, concur with the choice. warshy^talk 00:04, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Possible vandalism?

At the "Political and Religious views", it says: "He is widely known for donating over 20 million dollars to the Al-Qaeda terrorist group.", without presenting a single source. I smell vandalism in the air (especially because Niemeyer passed out recently), could the more experient editors take a look? Thanks. 200.195.155.178 (talk) 19:40, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

I am very sorry for jumping the gun, and for completely missing the correct remark by the person above. It was my mistake, a very bad one at that, and I sincerely apologize. The person above is correct and that sentence is what should be deleted, of course. Sorry again. warshy^talk 20:03, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Apologies, and thank you very much again for pointing this out. In the particular paragraph where it is located, and in my particular way of reading certain things in WP, I completely missed that ridiculous little sentence up to now. Unbelievable, both that WP would contain such defamation, and that I could have completely missed it until now... warshy^talk 20:13, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

It was just added little before and took two hours until reverted. Would have never appeared for readers if we've been using pending changes. --ELEKHH^T 23:03, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Yep. Thanks for pointing this out. I think this [2] is the diff, right? Someone should go after this IP. This type of 'addition' to WP borders on the criminal, IMO. Best, warshy^talk 23:12, 7 December 2012 (UTC)

Ana or Anna

The two references in the article about his daughter are currently using different spelling: one is Anna the other Ana. Google search shows widespread use of both forms, but from her gallery's website it appears that Anna is correct. --ELEKHH^T 00:46, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Ana is the Portuguese spelling. Anna is the English spelling. Presumably, her name was spelled Ana because she was Brazilian. I am an American living in Brazil; my wife is Brazilian, and my sister-in-law's name is spelled Ana. Although the article is in English, the way she spelled her name would appear to be proper and, as noted, Ana is the correct Portuguese spelling. However, using this criterion, it appears from her Galerie's website and her obituary that she used the English spelling Anna.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.43.87.117 (talk • contribs) 9 December 2012

That can be the general rule, and given that many Brazilian newspapers published "Anna", as well as that was used on her own website, it is rather a possible explanation for the frequent (mis)spelling as "Ana". --ELEKHH^T 23:42, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

I'm Brazilian and I've actually met her last year. It's Anna, double n! Use her website as reference, should be fine! --RPFigueiredo (talk) 11:27, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

Overlapping sections

The sections 'Early Life and Education' at the beginning of the article, and the section 'Personal Life' at the end of the article, contain overlapping information. I suggest that these two sections either be combined or 'Personal Life' be moved to under 'Early Life' and the redundant material be removed. I believe this will improve the article. Any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 177.180.140.187 (talk) 01:58, 12 January 2013 (UTC)

Go for it.--RPFigueiredo (talk) 00:23, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

I am trying to merge the two biographical sections by renaming "Early Life and Education" to "Personal Life and Education" at the beginning of the article and eliminate the section "Personal Life" at the end of the article. This will place a more complete biography in one section at the beginning and eliminate repetitious information (such as when he married). I believe this will improve the article without eliminating any factual details. — Preceding unsigned comment added by American In Brazil (talk • contribs) 17:41, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I also suggest that there be a new section break after the second paragraph of the biographical section "Life and Education" beginning with "In 1936, at 29, ..." to be titled "Early Career". This will break up a long section and correctly title the information following, which discusses his early work and professional contacts. However, I am not an experienced Wikipedian and do not know how to do it. Can someone lend some help.

Also, in the "Life" section, Lucio Costa magically appears out of nowhere. In the WP article on Costa, Niemeyer is identified as Costa's intern. I believe a more complete description of their meeting and association would improve the article considerably inasmuch as they collaborated for decades on major projects, such as the Brazil Pavillion at the 1939 NY World's Fair and, of course, Brasilia. I am not well-informed on this aspect of Niemeyer's career and would appreciate any help from knowledgeable WPs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by American In Brazil (talk • contribs) 18:39, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I've added back the 'Personal life' section (I didn't notice this thread). Marrying at 98 years old is certainly not 'early' ;) It is fairly standard to have "Early life" or "Early life and education" to contain details of birth, parents, childhood and college education. Because Niemeyer had such a looong life I think separate sections are preferable. "Personal life" sections normally contain info about marriages, children, personal habits etc. Sionk (talk) 18:42, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I had retitled "Early life and education" to "Personal life and education" which of course includes his whole life, not just his early life. That way all the biographical info is in one place and the chance for repetitous info (such as the year of his marriage) is reduced. I believe this provides a more compact and informative article for Niemeyer's remarkably long and productive career. — Preceding unsigned comment added by American In Brazil (talk • contribs) 18:56, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I can see why you thought that seemed sensible. To be honest, I'm surprised someone who lived 104 years doesn't have more 'personal life'!! There was commentary about his smoking habits, which seems to have been removed from the article over the last few weeks... Sionk (talk) 19:05, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I think that conjoining the two sections makes sense and there is information on how many grandkids and great-grandkids he had. Also remarkable in view of the fact that he had only one child, Anna. I'm not sure how much he smoked is relevant to his life (tho that's also amazing in view of his longevity!). And a marriage of 76 years is another notable number. But the importance of the article rightly emphasizes his contributions to 20th century architecture. This was certainly recognized here in Brazil. When he died last December, his body was flown from Rio to Brasilia and lay in state for a day in the Alvorada Palace, the President of Brazil's home and office, which Niemeyer designed. (Don't know if he ever thought it would be where his body would lay in state when he designed it more than half a century ago.) Why not consider reverting back to my original edit as a way of making the biographical information more compact and in one place? — Preceding unsigned comment added by American In Brazil (talk • contribs) 19:36, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

Also note my comment above about adding "Early Career" section after the second paragraph of my original edit to "Personal Life." This breaks up a long section and focuses on his career. — Preceding unsigned comment added by American In Brazil (talk • contribs) 20:27, 4 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree that having a "personal life" section at the end of the article makes it look like a trivia, but also agree with Sionk that bringing his late-personal life forward does not make the article read better. I think any fact from his personal life is only to be included to the extent it is relevant to what made him notable. I suggest the section be merged with the rest of the article, but following a chronologic order. Regarding the "First works" section, I don't see the need to break it into multiple sections, but wouldn't mind if renamed to the equivalent and broader "Early career". --ELEKHH^T 04:33, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

I agree and did so. — Preceding unsigned comment added by American In Brazil (talk • contribs) 03:12, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

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