Talk:Pretty Boy Floyd

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of Pretty Boy Floyd was copied or moved into Chester Smith (police officer). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on October 22, 2007, October 22, 2008, October 22, 2009, and October 22, 2010.

Gang Torpedo

The term 'gang torpedo' is quite colorful, and I would like to understand and be able to use it. Unfortunately I can find no explanation nor definition on the web. If possible, please explain/address. --BooksXYZ (talk) 15:21, 9 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Undefined and unexplained for nearly two years, so have replaced with "gang member" which is a more readily explicable term. Euryalus (talk) 10:11, 5 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Kansas City Massacre

That section of this article ticks me off for a number of reasons, which I will show below: The section is reprinted, my comments are in parenthesis.

Floyd and Richetti were alleged to have been Miller's accomplices. Factors weighing against them included their apparent presence in Kansas City at the time, eyewitness identifications, Richetti's fingerprint said to have been recovered from a beer bottle at Miller's hideout, an underworld account naming Floyd and Richetti as the gunmen, and perhaps most importantly, Hoover's firm advocacy of their guilt. (So, that's what this article (just like the Dillinger one) is all really all about, make the lawman Hoover look like a bad guy and make Floyd, a viscous criminal, look good and thus celebrate criminality.)

Fellow bank robber Alvin Karpis, an acquaintance of Floyd's, claimed that Floyd confessed involvement to him, but no one else has corroborated Karpis' story. (Says who? How do you know "no one else"? Where are the sources for all these wild accusations?)

On the other side of the issue, the bandit alleged to have been Floyd was supposed to have been wounded by a gunshot to the shoulder in the attack, and Floyd's body showed no sign of this injury when examined later. (If it was a shallow injury or a glancing blow, it could have been cleaned up very quickly and covered up rather easily. Or maybe the person misidentified someone who got really did get shot as Floyd. One minor eyewitness mistake in the midst of a violent and chaotic situation hardly is evidence that Floyd was not there.)

The underworld account identifying Floyd and Richetti as the killers was offset by equally unreliable underworld accounts proclaiming their innocence or identifying others. (Says who? And what right do you have to deem whose accounts are reliable or not? You're stating an opinion as a fact.)

The Floyd family has maintained that while Floyd owned up to many other crimes, he vehemently denied involvement in this one, as did Richetti. (So? The words of family are hardly unbiased evidence.)

It has also been contended that this crime would have been inconsistent with Floyd's other criminal acts, as he was not otherwise known as a hired gun or (especially) a hired killer. (Yeah, because criminals never do anything unpredictable and/or never break from their proclaimed "morality.")

(Yeah, that was a real unbiased section. Everything on the "Floyd was there argument" was quicklyundermined by "yeah, but" statements and immediate rebuttals (sometimes in the very same sentence!) while the "Floyd was innocent and the evil Hoover lied" sides arguments are treated at face value, not given any counter-arguments, and repeated as if it were complete unequivocal fact.)

However, shortly after the attack, Kansas City police received a postcard dated June 30, 1933, from Springfield, Missouri, which read: "Dear Sirs- I- Charles Floyd- want it made known that I did not participate in the massacre of officers at Kansas City. Charles Floyd" The police department believed the note to be genuine. (Says who? And why did they "believe" is genuine? How could they have arrived at such concrete acceptance from some brief writing on a freaking postcard? Again, where are the sources for all of these left field weird claims?)

Floyd also reportedly denied involvement in the massacre to the FBI agents who had fatally wounded him. (Blatantly false. Nobody at the scene has ever reported Floyd saying any such thing. And also we're supposed to believe that in the midst of dying this bastard's, who had killed many men, first thought was trying to clear the air about one such incident?)

In addition, a recent book on the massacre attributes at least some of the killing to friendly fire by a lawman who was unfamiliar with his weapon, based on existing ballistic information. (Well, what makes the author of the book a ballistics expert? Any idiot with a bare minimum/shallow knowledge of ballistics can pump out a impressive looking but meaningless quantity of plausible sounding techno babble to make his or her case about what ballistics 'evidence' shows, and equally ignorant people will insipidly assume that since the author sounds like they know what they are talking about and have so much info that it must be valid. That fact that someone scribbled together a book claiming something means zippo. And more anti-cop/anti Hoover smears: now we're supposed to believe that the FBI back then were too stupid to use their own weapons.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.59.37 (talk) 06:49, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

A recent book?

While discussing the Kansas City Massacre, "A recent book...", is this referring to the book by Bryan Burrough, can't we mention that? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.224.153.158 (talk) 05:42, 9 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

killed people for using his nickname?

The current revision contains the claims

He hated it enough that he killed two men just for calling him "Pretty Boy," and his dying words were "I'm Charles Arthur Floyd!"

Does anybody have a source for these? They sound like legends. Uucp 18:04, 22 July 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This is legend, not fact. I'm rewording the passage accordingly. Hiddekel 04:59, 22 September 2005 (UTC)[reply]

There is a bed and breakfast in East Liverpool, Ohio, housed in the funeral home where Pretty Boy Floyd was embalmed. It's called Sturgis House and is run by town funeral director Frank Dawson. It has Pretty Boy Floyd memoriabilia. http://sturgishouse.com/was

... what?

Could someone please explain to me what

Ludacris ft. Pharrel. -Money maker

means in the context of this article? Cactus Wren 23:22, 14 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Birth

This section starts by referring to Floyd the individual, but then the section uses word "they" (There they lived on the street until Charles was about ten years old. They then moved to the Cookson Hills of Oklahoma). Who's "they"? His family? This wording should be clarified. 0xDEADC0DE hrwfghfvhvwyrgrqeyyegwfegwkfuyqwdurwdugggw5645w1848

Removal of Citation Notice

I see another editor removed the citation notice - having sourced most of the article, I agree with this, does anyone disagree? Stillstudying 12:49, 26 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Floyd's Arrest record

Floyd's arrest record dated from 1925 to 1930—Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.53.145.203 (talk) 19:52, 17 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The public's account of his death?

While i was reading this article it said that there were three sides of the story concerning his death, the FBI, the local police, and the public that were present at the time of his death. Well after reading the rest of the section i did not see any mention of what the publics account was and how it differed from the rest. The article did a great job of differentiating between the FBI and the local police but why mention the local residents side if it wont be brought up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.5.10.137 (talk) 05:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

That's because there was no "public version", the FBI "story" is what happened. And the fact is that Smith was the only officer who made the 'cold-blooded murder' claims and this was after changing his story twice. As for the rest of the local police, their reports are freely available online and back up the FBI, so there is also no "local police" version only a discredited Officer Smith 'version' in which he tries to make himself look more involved than he was.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.205.59.37 (talk) 06:19, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

If the local police reports were available and indeed do "back up the FBI," this is yet another example of Time Magazine mistakes. There are so many errors in this periodical that it makes me wonder if they're a worthwhile source for Wikipedia.TL36 (talk) 23:34, 17 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

My fathers recollection of the Pretty Boy Gang in Bowling Green, Ohio and the killing of Patroman Castner

In 1931 my father, John Bullis, managed a Sohio Gas Station at the corner of Prospect and Wooster streets in Bowling Green, Ohio. One day, he noticed a suspicious group of men walking past the gas station and turning the corner to head south on Prospect street. He commented to his workmates that "there goes a suspicious bunch of guys who are definitely not from around here"!! They were, of course, the Pretty Boy Floyd gang and moments later the confrontation with Bowling Green Police took place one block down the street where Patrolman Castner was killed. My father and his workers never heard the gun shots because there was a loud air compressor in the station which drowned out the sound. He was alerted to what had happened when the emergency vehicles came racing around the corner towards the location of the gun fight.

John Bullis, Jr. jhbullis@hotmail.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.181.236.114 (talk) 11:16, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Vanished?

Quote: His father had been killed by a neighbor, Jim Mills, who was acquitted but "vanished".

What does this insinuate -- that Mills got the hell out, or that our boy Floyd "took care of him"? Fixed him up real good .... if you know what I mean (taps nose) ... Maikel (talk) 17:28, 15 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

What hasn't been put into the wiki page on Pretty Boy Floyd.

I have heard stories from my family about Pretty Boy Floyd.

They knew him personally and he fathered some of my great cousin's children.

My great grandmother, I believe on my grandfather's side. Despised him because he drank, smoked, and gambled. She use to beat him with a wooden spoon for cussing. This all happened in Arkansas.

From my family's accounts, my cousin whom he had children with dyed his hair cotton candy pink because he was fleeing the police.

After he thought the heat died down, he convinced my grandfather and his brothers to rob a train that was coming through.

Before they could rob the train they were apprehended, my great grandmother called the police on them.

My grandfather and Pretty Boy Floyd, we're put in a cell together, and my gradfather said the police harrassed him about his pink hair.

Interesting recollections. His son, Jack Floyd worked at the Oaks Cardroom in Oakland, CA in the late 1980s and probably beyond. I believe he was under 10 when his father was killed. Jack seemed like a very nice fellow.--Jrm2007 (talk) 21:07, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Jrm2007 and 24.99.240.92 I have a black and white photo of Pretty Boy Floyd and his hair is beached white or blonde, but it could be cotton candy pink. Send me your emails and I will send you the pic. OSMOND PHILLIPS (talk) 04:51, 23 March 2016 (UTC)[reply]

  Iam Christoher A Brewer he is my great great uncle. My grandmother is around 71 . she told me when she was your they used to hide him in the house. or other places  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.99.240.92 (talk) 10:17, 11 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Truth

To set the record straight Charles Floyd only fathered one child, Charles Dempsey Floyd (aka Jack) with Ruby Hardgraves. Jack is my grandfather and Pretty Boy Floyd is my great grandfather. Why is there no info about his son or wife. They where a huge part of his life. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.141.205.8 (talk) 01:32, 16 October 2010 (UTC) My dad was Jack's friend when they lived outside of Bixby, Oklahoma. He would hunt for Jack and his mother. Jack and my dad worked as kids for my grandfather. He was a sharecropper until he made enough to buy land outside of Oaks Indian Mission, Oklahoma. Years ago my dad received a letter and poster from him about a book that he wrote. The letter is postmarked from Oakland, CA. I flew into the airport near Rogers, Arkansas to see my dad after he fell and broke his leg. He was at University of Arkansas Hospital. My mom brought the poster and letter for me to copy. The nurses made copies for me and read the letter. The poster was copied too but had to make the poster in sections of 8 by 11 papers. They all were in his room asking all types of questions. My dad told me he never saw him. The letter was a really heartfelt letter say the jack and his mom would have starved if not for my dad hunting for his family and Jack's family. He wrote of my Grandfather being upset that my dad would go to Jack's house to give them food after being told not to go there. They lived besides each other farms. My dad told me it was because there were cops and agents always staking their house out. It also has a story about them playing tennis with a piece of lumber and swatting bumblebees at each other. My dad was born in 1925. His name is Claudus Davis. Just seeing if he told your dad about my dad. I need to find the letter. It was about 10 pages long. I live in Kentucky after retiring from the military. My email account is Gld5818.gd@gmail.com just thought if Kack was your grandfather you might like a copy of this letter. Our families were so poor back then. My grandfather was in the military then worked as lawman out of Texas before the depression took its toll. I was trying to contact you directly but I couldn't figure it out. Haha. Computer Science major...haha later Gary... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gld5818 (talk • contribs) 01:04, 24 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Conflict in timeline

How could Floyd have served a sentence of five years from 1925 but have faced arrest in 1929? He would have had to have had a time machine. Captainbeefart (talk) 11:27, 22 October 2010 (UTC) you're right; he only served 3 1/2 years, tho he was sentenced to 5 -- i've corrected that paragraph159.245.32.2 (talk) 23:37, 18 March 2012 (UTC)klu[reply]

The Floyd Legend

The Floyd legend is of a man who gave farm families money, shredded mortgages when robbing banks, helped homeless people, and was sheltered by farmers who loved him - such as in the Woody Guthrie song. I don't know if that stuff is true or not, but shouldn't it be mentioned in the article -even to debunk, if necessary - since that's what people associate with Pretty Boy Floyd?Carlo (talk) 05:19, 25 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that's what I came here looking for. --Zaurus (talk) 12:14, 27 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Anachronism

Under "Life of Crime": "Three years later he was arrested for a payroll robbery on September 16, 1925 in St. Louis, Missouri and served five years in prison.[1][2][3]"

But then, two paragraphs later, "In 1929, he faced numerous arrests.". By this time, wouldn't he have still been serving in prison? If those five years included the parole, it should have been broken down. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tyrambo (talk • contribs) 07:07, 14 December 2011 (UTC) he is not preaty[reply]

REAL Legacy

Flyoud's REAL legacy is how many banks he robbed and how many people he killed. These should be mentioned somehow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.102.2.26 (talk) 23:11, 1 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

History.com says hooker gave Pretty Boy his nickname.

I noticed the article says it was some other man. History.com is pretty good at getting the facts right. Here's the link to it and at the time I wrote this, it's in the 3rd paragraph, 2nd sentence. Maybe someone wants to address that. MagnoliaSouth ^(talk) 12:22, 22 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Son caught embezzling from employer?

Just recently, a former dealer from the Oaks card room in Emeryville CA asserted that jack Floyd, his son, was caught but not prosecuted for stealing cash from the place. Can't substantiate this but interesting if true.Jrm2007 (talk) 01:45, 26 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Not Guilty

He was a former employee of The Oaks Club and was wrongly accused of the theft. This was taken to trial and Jack was found NOT GUILTY! Jack was also awarded a wrongful conviction compensation by the court for being wrongly accused. The guilty one was a man that went by the name of Puerto Rican Mike. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.89.227.185 (talk) 22:10, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Source 4

Source 4 is a dead link, and I can't find an archived version, anybody know where we can find it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.248.106.100 (talk) 13:37, 29 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I just cut out

this neat little detail because it really needs some source.

"Whether or not he actually participated in the crime, Floyd was in Kansas City at the time of the Massacre -- and hid out at a safe house in the North End. Never one to neglect his appearance, Floyd sent for a "trustworthy" local barber to come over and give him a haircut while he hid out."

If someone has that story written out it could be used as a reference. Maybe. Carptrash (talk) 20:51, 6 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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Floyd in Dick Tracy

Twice Chester Gould modeled killers after Floyd; One was Flattop Jones; the other was a 1935 bank robber/killer Cutie Diamond (Gould in drawing the death scene of Cutie Diamond ironically calls him the "Robin Hood of the Ozarks" an echo of how the real life Charles Arthur Floyd (in reality a remorseless Bank robber and suspected killer in ten murders [including an ex-oklahoma Sherriff; 2 Ohio police officers, and a US Govt Alcohol Prohibition Agent] was actually viewed by the some members of the public as a modern day "Robin Hood of the Cookson Hills"of Oklahoma) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.138.11 (talk) 23:38, 16 December 2020 (UTC) As a DICK TRACY fan and continuity expert,I can confirm that Flattop was based on Pretty Boy Floyd.Chester Gould mentioned that he was falsely worshipped as "Robin Hood" by uneducated locals.In the 1980's,a different Tracy writer,Max Allan Collins;did a flashback to BEFORE Tracy&Flattop met,implicating him in "The Kansas City Massacre".Collins also said Flattop began his career as a bank robber,but switched to the "safer" job of contract killing when he had to go underground/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.23.5.11 (talk) 18:43, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Namesake

[1] There is a convict and escapee in Mississippi who also uses or has been given the name Pretty Boy Floyd. I don't know if this is worth mentioning in the article. I got confused when I saw the new guy's name because I had remembered P.B.F. as an old time gangster, correctly as it turned out. 2602:24A:DE47:B8E0:1B43:29FD:A863:33CA (talk) 02:29, 15 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In Popular Culture

Wasn't Floyd portrayed in the "Brother Where Art Thou?" as a manic-depressive who briefly intersects with the movie's trio of fugitives? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.202.33.17 (talk) 03:10, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]