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Talk:Raymond Hesselyn/GA1

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GA Review

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Reviewer: Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk · contribs) 04:17, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'll take a look at this shortly. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 04:17, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Prelim

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  • Earwig reports no copyvio
  • No edit war
  • No duplicated links
  • Images correctly licensed

Lede and infobox

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  • Middle name in lede needs to be mentioned in main text for citation
  • Consecutive sentences begin with "returned" and "returning", which makes awkward reading
  • You use single quotation marks for his nickname in the main text but double in the infobox

Early life

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  • Per previous point on middle name
  • Would "who would become..." work better than "who would be..."?

Second World War

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  • You never use the abbreviation RNZAF so introducing it seems unnecessary
  • "His judgement was found to be at fault." Can you elaborate on what this meant for him? Was he reprimanded etc?
  • Not explicitly. I think most accidents had some sort on inquiry afterwards to determine what happened. In this case I expect it will have been chalked up to experience. Zawed (talk) 03:37, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Note that Aoringi was an ocean liner when introducing her
  • "before being posted to No. 501 Squadron" Is this also in September? Another date would be useful to pin down when he started convoy patrols
  • "transferred to No. 234 Squadron as a flight sergeant." He was already serving at 501 Sqn, so surely he already held flying rank by this point? If you're just unsure of the exact date of promotion it might be better to say "...having already been promoted to flight sergeant"
  • "sweeps" is a little vague here, were they different to the convoy patrols? If so it could be better clarified

Malta

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  • "hindered his participation in the ensuing dogfight." This seems like a half finished story, I assume that this meant that he failed to claim any victories etc, but it could be clearer
  • You use his nickname for the only time here in the second paragraph, and it seems out of place
  • Before I started work on this article, the original text referred to him by his nickname throughout. I replaced them all for a more formal tone but missed this one. Fixed. Zawed (talk) 03:37, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Did these six sorties include the 11 March one?
  • "Another Ju 87 was shot down over Ta Kali..." This sentence is a little confusing. Did Hesselyn shoot the Ju 87 down or did someone else? Saying "but Hesselyn...used up his remaining ammunition engaging them" sounds like it was a bad thing, but surely fighting until your guns were dry wasn't frowned down upon? If you're saying that it was unfortunate because he was not able to shoot the Bf 109s down then this could be clarified
  • "with Hesselyn and another pilot was scrambled"
  • "he was informed by Wing commander Edward Gracie" Is it necessary to name Gracie as the informer? You don't mention him again and he doesn't have an article
  • "suffering from shock, was then..."?
  • "deemed only a probable victory"? Calling it just a probable may be a little confusing for casual readers
  • "flight operations" or flying operations?
  • "engaged one, damaging it"
  • "be the recipient"
  • "with more raids being mounted at night" You say he had a quiet June, but could specify as to whether this was because of the raids now being at night, and why this change meant he saw less action
  • You occasionally change from "Bf 109s" to just "109s", and should really stick with one or the other
  • "Before returning to England," Remove comma

Europe

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  • "Hesselyn arrived in England..." When?
  • The source frustratingly doesn't given an date but I reckon late July. I have rephrased the previous paragraph to refer to him leaving shortly after his last victory in Malta. I think that is fair to say given what is in the source. Zawed (talk) 05:07, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "as a flight commander." Is he still a pilot officer at this point? I don't see when he becomes a flying officer
  • An explicit date of promotion isn't mentioned, just a mention of "Flying Officer Hesselyn" at one point when referring to an action in August. I have added mention that he was a flying office by the end of August. Zawed (talk) 05:12, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • You need to decide which way you're capitalising ranks, e.g. you use "Wing Commander" and "Wing commander"
  • "termed Ramrods, to the Continent" Do either of these require capitalising?
  • "Two days later, with another pilot, he shared in the destruction" No need to say "with another pilot" when you're already saying it was shared
  • "upgraded to the new Spitfire IX (LF) aircraft." Out of interest, what was the upgrade exactly?
  • The upgrade is in relation to the engine, and specifically the superchargers. These could be optimised for specific flying heights (LF refers the engine being best up to a low (relatively) flying height of 10,000 ft. F relates to a medium flying height and HF to a high flying height. I have added a link. Zawed (talk) 05:07, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Where is Audring? Not very useful naming a place that doesn't have an article
  • "on a mission escorting..."

Prisoner of war

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  • Castrated?! Assume the claim wasn't confirmed; what do you think?
  • "On rejoining the rest of his captives" This makes it sounds like he was a guard rather than a fellow prisoner! Perhaps fellow captives?
  • Introduce the POW acronym before you use it for the first time

Postwar career

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  • Hesselyn was released in May 1944 but didn't serve again in the war? Is that not an especially long recuperation period?
  • Oops, I hadn't been explicit enough regarding when the POW camp was liberated. It was actually in 1945 but everything else in that section is in 1944 so I can see the cause for confusion. Zawed (talk) 04:00, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'm a little confused over his rank upon transferring to the RAF. He was commissioned as a pilot officer but kept his rank as a flight lieutenant, which was made substantive the next day? Does this mean he was holding a war substantive rank (for the single day he was a pilot officer/flight lieutenant) despite there not being a war ongoing? I feel this could be rephrased so that it makes more sense, unless I've completely missed the point!
  • This is another holdover from the original text, and the sourcing for this is the LG cites. My main source (Sutherland) doesn't actually mention his rank at this stage. I suspect the use of war substantive ranks was to give seniority in rank over junior officers for chain of command purposes while paying wages at the commissioned rank. I've trimmed it down by simply referring to flight lieutenant and removing the mentions of seniority (which don't add much in this context). Zawed (talk) 04:38, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • "recovery officer" This role probably needs explaining, not immediately clear
  • Do you have dates for the RAF Horsham and 217 Signals Unit postings?
  • "emeny" sp
  • Is naming Spinks auction house a necessary addition? They don't seem to be that notable and for most people knowing the medals were auctioned at all will be enough

That's all I have for now. Will await your replies. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 17:12, 2 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Pickersgill-Cunliffe: thanks for the extensive review, much appreciated. I have responded to your points as outlined above. Zawed (talk) 05:42, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Zawed I have made some minor and hopefully uncontroversial edits to help clean the article up, and am now happy to pass this as satisfying the good article criteria. Pickersgill-Cunliffe (talk) 14:17, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for the review Pickersgill-Cunliffe, and for picking up that dupe link arising from my changes. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 21:18, 4 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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