Talk:Red Herring Artists

This article was nominated for deletion on June 3, 2005; the consensus was no consensus. For discussion, please see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Red Herring Artists.

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I considered wether this was applicable to be in the wikipedia and concluded that under the guidelines it should be. for one the organisation is not a profitmaking business and more importantly It is regularly the subject of academic papers on art history and the history of design.

I will return when possible to add more detail - including a list of signifigant artists that have been associated with the group. DavidP 13:44, 27 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I am highly sceptical of this entry. It seems to be promotional, and I only find 28 Google hits for it (not enough to substantiate it being "regularly the subject of academic papers on art history and the history of design"). Also, the entire entry has been plagiarised from the About.com topic about this artists' collective. I'm listing it on VfD.216.158.31.195 16:37, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• There is still not enough information about artists, just generalisations. jglc | t | c 22:03, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• • names and references to the two artists mentioned as having been shortlisted for the booker and turner prizes have been added. Jason, why do you use two seperate usernames (216.158.31.195|216.158.31.195 and Jasonglchu)?
  • The entry is not promotional in a comercial sense, as the organisation does not trade and is not profitmaking. there is no benefit to be gained by the existance of a wiki page for this organisation or itsw members other than to inform the wiki user.
  • If you try searching "red herring" & "art" you will get 214,000 hits of which this organisation first appears as the 11th.DavidP 10:02, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• To the anonymous user who is editing the page: please source any quotes about the artist's group that you edit in. jglc | t | c 22:17, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No longer anonymous

I am a member of Red Herring Studios and I have just been tidying up the spelling and punctuation of the entry and making sure the links work.

Red Herring is exactly as it is described - a not for profit artist's collective and its members have been active in the Brighton area and much further afield since 1985.

I agree we need to be more explicit with the references to members and their achievements. Being a relatively new member I am not best placed to do this but I will ask DavidP who is a founder member and origional author of this piece to have a look at it.

• The fact that you are a member of Red Herring studios makes me even more suspicious that this entry is self-promotion. Don't take that too harshly - I'm not denigrating your collective or your own body of work. I'm just saying that you may be viewing the importance of your group's work in a biased light.
• I also still question the verifiability and, especially, the notability of the group. Keep going at it, though, the more work you put in cleaning it up, the better it looks (and the more likely it is to not be deleted). jglc | t | c 23:35, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It is good to be suspicious jasongchu. but bias is something that is very hard to avoid. for instance as an american citizen you are probably not aware that the booker prize is britains most prestigious literary award and the Turner Prize is britains most prestigious award for the visual arts. I am sure that if you were aware of this your assertion that the subject is not 'notable' would be less rigourous. As you can probably imagine it is quite a notable feat for both of these awards to be associated with a single establishment.

• The statement about the group being of "historic importance" was made by Paul Greenhalgh, director of postgraduate studies at the Victoria and Albert museum, london. the statement was made at a presentation, that was made before such things were posted on the web, as such it is impossible to reference.
• If the entry was made for self promotion purposes - do you not think that we would have added our names to the page? perhaps under a list of members.

DavidP 10:02, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

reply

Actually, I do know about the Turner and Booker prizes; after seeing them in the article, I did some looking up on wikipedia and google. I take your point, however, that matters of some great significance may be overlooked simply by regional bias. That said, if Vong Phaophanit is part of the collective, it is definitely notable. jglc | t | c 15:48, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

VfD response

Hey DavidP; I'm glad to see your changes to the article. It looks good, now, and I'm looking forward to reading more about your collective. Thanks for your work, and I hope to learn more from your entries on Wikipedia. jglc | t | c 14:11, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)