Talk:Samba de Gafieira

Samba de Gafieira is not music style.

Although it has samba on its name, Samba de Gafieira is not music style. There are no rhythms or music styles called Samba de Gafieira. The name Samba de Gafieira is simmilar to Contra Dance, Lindy Hop, and others with no matching name for the rhythm or music style. Samba de Gafieira can be danced with rhythms like bossa nova, samba, samba canção, pagode, etc. --Markps (talk) 15:13, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:29, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Lindy Hop which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 17:44, 27 June 2015 (UTC)

Dubious comparisons

Please provide refrences for all your comparisons, i.e that giro da dama is the as e as rolling of the arm, ga cho redondo is top, ans so on. I am telling you third time already, all information is wikipedia must be referenced to reliable sources. - üser:Altenmann >t 01:09, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Please stop your revert war and provide references for your comparisons. References to Laird are about ballroom samba and do not mention samba de gafieira. Therefore they are not references to comparisons of the steps of the two dances. - üser:Altenmann >t 17:30, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

Yor addition in article "the only turn with arms up is Rolling off the arm" has two major problems: first, there is to references which say so, second, even if it is so, it does not mean these are the same move. What you did here is called "original research", which is not allowed in wikipedia, see WP:NOR. - üser:Altenmann >t 17:36, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

ballroom samba and samba de gafieira are the same dance. One is the copy of the other. Searching (you call it "original research"?) the most similar figure in samba de gafieira of rolling of the arm, it has to be giro da dama. Both figures lack the typical samba footwork. And I removed gancho redondo comment because the top is not a samba figure user talk:Gdance 19:36, 8 December 2018 [UTC]

@Gdance:"Ballroom samba" how it is understood in the world of ballroom dancing (and as defined in the book by Laird you are citing) and samba de gafieira are completely different dances with different history and technique. Only a person completely ignorant in samba can say they are the same. You are probably got confused with the translation of the brazilian term "samba de salão", "salon samba", often translated as "ballroom samba". But this is a generic brazilian term for samba danced in ballrooms. But even in brazil there are at least two styles of salon samba: samba de gafieira of Rio de Janeiro and samba pagode of São Paulo. Not to mention internatiolal ballroom samba.

Anyway, I am not going into a dispute with you opinion. Per wikipedia rules, please provide a reference to you claim. Otherwise it will be reverted. - üser:Altenmann >t 02:28, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

Searching (you call it "original research"?) the most similar figure - did you bother to read Wikipedia policy i mentioned, WP:NOR? - üser:Altenmann >t 02:32, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

@Altenmann:That samba de gafieira is a copy of ballroom samba is not WP:NOR is not my discovery. It is already mentioned on a website of a danceschool. Only discovery is that I found a film of the first ballroom samba demonstration. And exactly those steps are copied into Samba de gafieira, some almost unrecognizable. So I can not mention it, it would be WP:NOR. user talk:Gdance 9:38 10 December 2018 [UTC]

Sorry, you cannot mention anything in wikipedia articles without including references to reliable sources. You had plenty of time. Your refusal to understand the most fundamental Wikipedia policy is baffling.- üser:Altenmann >t 14:26, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

The original article is so unreliable that I can declare Samba de gafieira as a fraud. If Youtube videos can not be reliable source then I can only refer to the authoritative book. As long those Brazilian dancers don't dance it correctly then Samba de gafieira will fade away — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gdance (talk • contribs) 08:43, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Videos are good for illustration and sometimes for references, if a recognized expert explains something in the video, you may use tbse explanations as a basis for article text, just like with a book. I told you in your talk page that I will help you, if you folow our rules. Instead, you decided to start a war. You are new here, ask questions and listen. - Altenmann >talk 04:51, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

Third opinion request

Hello. An editor has requested a WP:Third opinion, which is proper when there is a disagreement between only two people. What is the problem here? Can you each state your side? Thanks. BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 01:38, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

The problem and the discussion were stated in 3o request. If you cannot handle it with your 12 years of experience, please reinstate the request and let a more competent wikipedian try. In the future just dont take such cases. One person wasting my time enough already. - üser:Altenmann >t 03:23, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

Allow me to chime in. I see it as a WP:Verifiability issue. It may well be possible what User:Gdance writes, but mentioning an unspecified "website of a danceschool" is not enough. Domain experts may voice well-founded opinions and speakers of the Portuguese language may find many more sources to elaborate on the content of the dispute, but on formal grounds, I argue that the more rigid attitude of User:Altenmann is correct here. Wakari07 (talk) 16:14, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

My intention was to give the english names to the Figures here. I gave pagenumbers of a reliable source. But user talk:Altenmann wants the impossible. He wants that an expert, but in Brazil there are no experts and any certified ballroom dance teacher would call the brazilan dance a fraud. Result is that I can never direct Brazilianss who say that ballroom samba is not samba to this page. As illustration I give the Brazilian and the ballroom samba step. Same step but different in performance. But YouTube videos are not reliable for WikipediaUser talk:Gdance 11 December 17:50 (UTC)

These are not the same dance step. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:00, 11 December 2018 (UTC)

References

Since one of the participants has declined my offer of a third opinion, I am withdrawing it. Sincerely, BeenAroundAWhile (talk) 15:26, 12 December 2018 (UTC)

I declined no offer. I declined burocracy. The kind which had led to the demise of the Mediation Committee. - Altenmann >talk 04:51, 13 December 2018 (UTC)