Talk:Shahab al-Muhajir

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Military / Politics and Government

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the military biography work group.
	This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Iraq Low‑importance

	Iraq portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Iraq, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Iraq on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IraqWikipedia:WikiProject IraqTemplate:WikiProject IraqIraq articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Afghanistan Low‑importance

	Afghanistan portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Afghanistan, a project to maintain and expand Afghanistan-related subjects on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.AfghanistanWikipedia:WikiProject AfghanistanTemplate:WikiProject AfghanistanAfghanistan articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Low-importance).

Islam Low‑importance

	Islam portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Islam, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Islam-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IslamWikipedia:WikiProject IslamTemplate:WikiProject IslamIslam-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Qazi Hassan Alizai Dupty Amir of IS-kP

Qazi Hassan Alizai the Mollah Abdul Ruaf Khadim ( Alizai brother son salacted as IS-KP Dupty Amer. Qazi Hassan Alizai is from Helmand Province Kajaki district. Bourn 21/1/1989. 20000 Soldiers of IS-KP is under has Control. 103.42.1.42 (talk) 23:47, 23 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Declare dead or not?

Should he be declared dead in the article?

The article states:

Pakistani media reported Ghafari's death on June 9 under "mysterious circumstances", citing Afghan and Pakistani intelligence officials. The reports were confirmed by Voice of America, citing Afghan sources. A Taliban spokesman stated that the reports could not be confirmed.

If the source is Afghan and Pakistani intelligence officials, and VoA confirmed it, but the Taliban deny it, who is more reputable?

Surely the former? Or...? Abandonee (talk) 16:58, 23 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

That section should be rewritten to clarify that VOA has not confirmed the report, only says that Pakistani security sources and 'sources in Kunar' 'confirmed' it. US and Taliban do not. Pakistani security sources have, through the last two decades, perhaps the least-reputable claims of militant leader deaths, especially those they wish most to publicize for domestic consumption (TTP, ISIS-K, etc.). Further, ISIS-K and ISIS-Central always publish tearful memories of 'martyred' walis and we've seen nothing from the group to corroborate — especially if his supposed death was as VOA suggests, Voice of Khurasan would have long-now published a 4-page eulogy praising his violent 'martyrdom in a fight with the taghut Taliban militia' written in the style of Ri Chun-hee. In short: Mawdu' wa Da'if. RightQuark (talk) 02:27, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Verification of Sources

A few of the quoted sources in this article are woefully improper for a biographical article particularly the single tweet as evidence for his connections with Bagram Airfield. Due to the political nature of the article in the wake of the recent terrorist attack in Russia, and the possibilities of spurious attribution of the attack by various actors; it is important that this article be closely examined for possible bad information. Naturalflavor1 (talk) 01:58, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed some of the obvious poor quality sourcing, I haven't gone through the rest. We should definitely be careful with using solid sourcing Tristario (talk) 07:47, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I initally added the statements nearly a year ago -- these are tweets made by journalists who are known for their coverage of the Afghan War and have been cited by many other reliable sources regarding the conflict, they are hence are reliable enough per WP:RSPTWITTER. I attributed it to their individual authors if that helps quench doubt. NAADAAN (talk) 04:21, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that, however per WP:BLPSPS these are in fact not reliable sources for a biography of a living person, so I will remove this content again. If this content belongs in the article it should have been reported by a reliable source somewhere Tristario (talk) 06:09, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Wrong 2600:1016:B100:A689:D32:7908:2D6F:ACB4 (talk) 19:59, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Nice try lol — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:5530:7F50:C002:5752:3463:46FA (talk) 18:57, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Consensus on reliability of BBC journalist Tajuden Soroush's claims on twitter

The section collapsed below

Extended content
According to Iran International and Afghanistan International journalist Tajuden Soroush, he worked as a sub-contractor of a security company and frequented Bagram Airfield.^[1] Afghan journalist Bilal Sawary reports that Ghafari was a special guard of then First Vice Presidents Abdul Rashid Dostum and Amrullah Saleh, and had a license to transfer weapons since 2017.^[2]^[3]

is controversial; NaturalFlavour1 and Tristario feel that self-published sources are not BLPRS. However NAADAAN notes that these journalists are reliable field experts, and RSP does note it is considered generally unreliable and should be avoided unless the author is a subject-matter expert.

In search of consensus, what should the treatment of this passage be?

Do not mention
Mention, and accredit to Tajuden Soroush
Mention, accreddit and note prominently that the claim was made originally on twitter.

I'm in favour of 3 as the original source is a subject matter expert, and we have had no problems citing twitter (as problematic as it is for linkrot reasons) when the tweet is made by other experts; see the covid-19 twitter coverage. However, it should be noted that twitter has a relaxed level of professionalism compared to the BBC itself, so the venue these claims were made should be clear 142.157.248.59 (talk) 00:07, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In general, something on twitter means that it's much more likely to be WP:UNDUE. WP:RSPTWITTER mentions this; Tweets that are not covered by reliable sources are likely to constitute undue weight. There are other issues with using things journalists say on twitter as sources besides that (generally less reliable, journalists say a lot of things on twitter).

However, this is not a difficult decision in this case, WP:RSPTWITTER says Twitter should never be used for third-party claims related to living persons. and WP:BLPSPS says Never use self-published sources—including but not limited to books, zines, websites, blogs, and social network posts—as sources of material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the article. Tristario (talk) 01:26, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt that it holds undue weight since it's been established that he served in the Afghan army and the tweets provide identification papers for Ghafari, him frequenting Bagram wouldn't be awfully far-fetched. I think this is a case where WP:5P5 can be applicable after consensus.

Indeed, they are self-published tweets, but they were made two differnt established journalists with bylines and quotes on many reliable sources in a less-than-ideal war-time environment especially considering how dire the media landscape in Afghanistan is with censorship and multiple outages. Former PM Amrullah Saleh also made tweets regarding him, should this be included as well? I will try to find better sources and we can advance on this subject if that fails. NAADAAN (talk) 03:49, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you find reliable sources for this stuff then that's great. I see you've found some relevant content from the persian version of the The Independent, thanks for doing that. Tristario (talk) 06:29, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Tajuden Soroush [@TajudenSoroush] (2022-02-08). "Sanaullah Ghafari who the US announced him as leader of ISIS-K & offers $10M reward for his head is from Shakardara district of Kabul. According to people who knew him,he was sub-contractor of a security company during the US presence in Afg & sometimes he went to Pegram airbase" (Tweet) – via Twitter.
^ "ISIL chief Amrullah Saleh's chief security guard turns out". Blaze Trends.
^ Bilal Sawary [@bsarwary] (2021-11-23). "SAM here as a special guard for first VO Rashid Dostum. SAM who hails from Kabul province has an extensive network" (Tweet) – via Twitter.

ش 37.42.75.153 (talk) 02:55, 17 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Tajuden Soroush [@TajudenSoroush] (2022-02-08). "Sanaullah Ghafari who the US announced him as leader of ISIS-K & offers $10M reward for his head is from Shakardara district of Kabul. According to people who knew him,he was sub-contractor of a security company during the US presence in Afg & sometimes he went to Pegram airbase" (Tweet) – via Twitter.

[2] "ISIL chief Amrullah Saleh's chief security guard turns out". Blaze Trends.

[3] Bilal Sawary [@bsarwary] (2021-11-23). "SAM here as a special guard for first VO Rashid Dostum. SAM who hails from Kabul province has an extensive network" (Tweet) – via Twitter.

[1]

[2]

[3]