Talk:Soapy Smith

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Smith Soapy

Mr.Smith's estate at the time of death at the barrel of a winchester rifle was $500.00

For an excellent TV program see: Ghost Trails and Ghost Towns @ BCTV British Columbia , Canada. This show has unpresidented items of early 1800's pariphinalia; including gold bars and coins, stock and bond certificates. Thiis is thehas spent a lifetime in first hand study on these sites of early Americana and Canadiana.

From Jeff Smith (great grandson and family historian)

The above information is incorrect. According to estate records he had more, but court fee, and inquest costs were attached to Soapy's estate. By the time they were finished with the fees, Soapy had a tad over $100.00 to his name. Jeff Soapy Smith 23:33, 15 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

About source for Soapy Smith

As of 1/9/2007 Jeff Smith and the Soapy Smith Preservation Trust will no longer contribute to this page. PLEASE NOTE: The information published after 1/9/2007 is not sanctioned or endorsed by the Trust. Thank you for your past support. Soapy 23:56, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My name is Jeff Smith, President of the Soapy Smith Preservation Trust. After spending over twenty years researching the life and death of my great grandfather, Jefferson Randolph ("Soapy") Smith, I am, without a doubt, the foremost authority on the subject. I was invited to re-write the Wiki page on Soapy. After much hesitation, due to the fact that anybody can make changes, I did so, and listed myself as the main source of information for the page. I apoligize, and thank, the previous authors. As of this date, the article is historically accurate. If such a time comes that too many incorrect edits are being made, I will remove my name, and association with the page, so as not to confuse people into believing that the Soapy Smith Preservation Trust, and the rest of the Smith family, endorses any incorrect information. This may come off as egotistical, but past lessons necessitate this kind of reaction. Currently, there are two books in publication that use my name as a source to "prove" false statements.

The Soapy Smith article, as it is now, is vague. Once my book is published, I will add more information and photographs. That being said, I look forward to working with Wikipedia. Jeff Soapy Smith 16:18, 16 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Is that Soapy in The Far Country

Someone claimed John McIntire was portraying Soapy in the 1955 film The Far Country. The film is set in Skagway, Alaska during the Klondike gold rush, and he does look like Soapy, but his part is that of Skagway sheriff "Gannon." It is possible that the film company feared legal issues, as Soapy's son was known for sueing film companies for using his fathers name. Does the original poster who placed this film on the Soapy Smith page have any additional information revealing that McIntire played Soapy? Otherwise, this posting might be removed as inaccurate. Soapy 15:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's been one week since the poster listed the movie "The Far Country." I did not see or hear any information that John McIntire was portraying "Soapy," so I am deleting the information from the article. Soapy 03:21, 12 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

After some more research, I opted to restore The Far Country. I did find that although the producers did not use Soapy by name, the character is loosely based on Soapy. Soapy 19:06, 19 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Original research

Talk:Soapy Smith/Archive 1

Request for Comment

Talk:Soapy Smith/Archive 1

Message from Jeff Smith

I wish to thank all those who have supported this page from the very beginning. Sadly Wikipedia has sided with Jaysbro being that I won't release my research until after my book is published. As of 1/9/2007 the Smith family no longer will be apart of this page. Jaysbro, congrats, the page is yours. Soapy 23:52, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean, Wikipedia has sided with me? I only saw one other user on my side in the whole discussion, and no admins ever weighed in. In any event, when your book gets published and it and your sources get commented on and written about by notable experts, feel free to come back, make chanes, and cite those sources. Jaysbro 16:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
- I note you went to my User page so you did know that ONE volunteer administrator took your side, no matter how wrong he was. I don't recall anyone else siding with you. I enjoyed your attempt to discredit my expertise by stating that I would be "welcomed back when other notable experts comment and write about my upcoming book." Since when do the students grade the teacher? I sense great jealousy coming from you. As the recognized foremost historian on Soapy Smith (whether you agree, or not) I am paid well to speak on him (see the About Jeff page on my website to view a partial list of organizations I have lectured for). I note that you have not tried to alter the information on the page, good for you. As long as it stays up people will be able to read the true, previously documented and published facts regarding his life. One of the main reasons I am backing off from Wikipedia is the vandalism. I no longer have the time to constantly battle (and yet here I am) what is described by other users as "destroyers" much like yourself, who find any thread of a loop-hole to attempt to try and make themselves look good. Just know that you can only do that here on Wikipedia, where information changes faster than a toxic diaper. As for me? The world is my oyster. If you happen to be in Yucca Valley, California at the White Horse Movie Ranch on January 27, 2007 or at the Coweta County Historical Society museum in Newnan, Georgia on March 24, 2007 come by and catch my presentations. I will be displaying some of the documents talked about in previous postings here. Soapy 19:50, 25 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

this is always kinda sad: some dude trying to push his own book through wikipedia, completely failing to understand the peer-review nature of this site —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.127.246.128 (talk) 20:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Big fucking deal. Go peddle your lies about your criminal scumbag ancestor elsewhere. He was a thief and a thug and should have been put to death long before he was.

Citing WP:V on the article page seems to be against policies and guidelines

I have scanned this Talk Page and I understand that there is an issue about the verifiability of the assertions made in the article. That notwithstanding, I do not believe that the big quotation of WP:V in the middle of the article is warranted and so I am removing it. If there is disagreement, please re-insert it but also please explain your reasoning for doing so here. --Richard 15:52, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

On second thought, I am moving the {{verifiability}} template to the top of this talk page. I have no objection whatsoever to the point made by the template and fully support it. What I do object to is having it prominently displayed in the text of the article. --Richard 15:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed, I think you made a good choice to remove the template from the article itself. --Yksin 18:02, 9 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Automatic redirection of "Jefferson Smith"

I think "Jefferson Smith" should be changed to a disambiguation page as there are at least 2 other notable people by this name--the character in "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" and Oregon politician/activist Jefferson Smith. Thoughts? Kallionae 00:56, 21 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Prostitution & Real Estate

Using prostitutes, he acquired numerous lots along Creede's main street By itself, this sentence is unclear. How did he use prostitutes to acquire real estate? Should the sentence be changed to, "Using profits from his prostitutes . . . "? 12.45.255.66 (talk) 21:15, 8 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I'll write it better, but no the profits were not used to purchase property. Jeff Smith (talk) 19:35, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Recent deletions: Soapy Stevens

A recent post by user 82.39.82.77 which read, "Soapy Stevens is a con merchant and bogus vicar in the 1960 British comedy 'Two-Way Stretch' played by the actor Wilfred Hyde-White." It was deleted by one poster without asking the original poster to explain. A revert war has taken place in which one user was blocked. So far both sides show no reasons for their actions. Let's let user 82.39.82.77 explain the original post before anyone decides it is true or not.Jeff Smith (talk) 19:28, 9 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

It's true, I remember it vividly, and just look at the Two-Way Stretch article: but what is the relevance?! Jezza (talk) 00:50, 31 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Did Soapy have a legitimate "Rough Riders" Unit?

I am writing a research paper on Alaska circa 1900, and came across the story of Soapy Smith and was very intrigued. The sources I found all mentioned his "Rough Riders" but said decisively that McKinley had denied him official status. However, according to James Wickersham's book, Old Yukon, Soapy framed the letter and since it bore the presidential signature and seal, used it to fool people into thinking he had the approval of the federal government. Wickersham claims that Soapy even ran a false recruiting office where members of his gang robbed the pockets of enlisters while they underwent a bogus medical exam.

Wickersham seems to me like a very good source, so I edited that page. Someone else changed it back within the last couple days though, so now I'm wondering, do you know something I don't? 71.67.249.58 (talk) 04:25, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

My manuscript, Alias Soapy Smith is about to be published. I have the original documents, minutes, roster and letters from the War Department. The name of his military organization was the Skaguay Military Company. Soapy did send copies of the paperwork to President McKinley as well as the governor of Alaska. The letter he received from the War Department thanked him for his offer and that it would be considered. It was not a "denial." His was not the only volunteer organization as McKinley had publicly asked for volunteer units. Soapy did hang the letter but it is from the War Department not the president. The Skaguay Military Company was in existence for the May 1, 1898 parade and then later for the July 4, 1898 parade. Photographs confirm that a sizable number of men were members of the volunteer army on July 4. If Soapy had been robbing the enlistment would they continue to remain enlisted? There are no contemporary accounts of recruits being robbed. Nothing is mentioned of this act in the several Skagway newspapers before and after his death. All accounts of such crimes are in later non-Alaskan newspapers and books. James Wickersham never went to Skagway in 1898 that I see. His book was written in 1938 and never having met Soapy he no doubt copied what others had written. Jeff Smith (talk) 04:56, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

There is a certain truth to that. In 1898, Wickersham was living in Tacoma and won election to the Washington House of Representatives. He didn't arrive in Alaska until 1900, when he was appointed to his judgeship. There is no question that Wickersham was an important figure during his years here, but also a very controversial figure. Old Yukon and Hubert Howe Bancroft's History of Alaska are typically regarded as definitive early works on the history of Alaska, even if aspects of those works are open to debate. Not only Wickersham, but Ernest Gruening and Robert Atwood wrote extensively about Alaska history, on topics in which their perspective was perhaps more anecdotal than anything else.RadioKAOS (talk) 20:36, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

- If you want to read the complete and documented truth about Soapy Smith in Alaska then without a doubt the best book is Alias Soapy Smith: The Life and Death of a Scoundrel. It is filled with previously unpublished information, photographs, and documents not covered in any other book on Alaska. Google the title. Jeff Smith (talk) 22:43, 21 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted Frank Reid's epitaph

I have once again deleted the sentence regarding Frank Reid's tombstone and epitaph from the second-to-last paragraph of the Death section. This sentence is confusing, because beginning only with "His tombstone..." and placed in a paragraph about Soapy Smith, it gives the impression that it is the epitaph oh Soapy's tombstone. I considered rewording it, but really there's no reason to tell people about Frank Reid's tombstone in an article about Soapy Smith. The Frank Reid tombstone information is present (and cited) in the article Shootout on Juneau Wharf. Alereon (talk) 04:48, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Smith in current folklore/merchandising

This probably wouldn't qualify as encyclopedic, but the same photo as found in the infobox has no doubt been used in many products over the years. Two which caught my attention in just the past 24 hours: "Alaskan Outlaw Whiskey", which prominently features Smith's face on the label, and Alaskan playing cards. The poster for that product also shows images of Sarah Palin, Snowzilla and Robert Hansen, as used on different cards. RadioKAOS – Talk to me, Billy 23:41, 9 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified (January 2018)

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Question on mummy owned by Soapy

I noticed in the Wikipedia listing about Ye Olde Curiosity Shop in Seattle, the mummified corpse called Sylvester was owned by Soapy Smith in 1892 and was called McGinty. I wonder if anyone here might have an idea of the real identity of Sylvester/McGinty. Could he have been someone killed by Soapy Smith? 2601:603:217F:4F10:C92B:B706:D7CC:51A1 (talk) 20:01, 26 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Jeff Smith claims that McGinty and Sylvester are one and the same because they are “nearly identical.” Ask yourself this: if they were the same, why wouldn’t they be identical? A number of period sources say that McGinty was a cement casting and had a broken arm; why would that not also be apparent on Sylvester? Ruthiegirl9 (talk) 19:10, 30 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Meeting with Evangeline Booth

There is an interesting story about Soapy Smith repenting his sins, telling stories about his childhood and praying with the head of the Salvation Army Evangeline Booth, two days before his death in Dale Carnegie's "How to make friends and influence peoole" 2A02:2121:309:EDD7:3DDC:48F:8F08:D005 (talk) 20:53, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]