Talk:Star Awards

On adding Chinese characters beside artistes' name

From WP:CHINESECHARACTERS, To help establish a simple and clean appearance, if a term is Wikified and has an article, do not provide characters or romanization again. Please remove the chinese characters of the artistes' name as per the MOS. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 01:32, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

@Unknown152438, on the usage of Chinese characters besides wikified BLP and articles. Thanks. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 01:10, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor Just remain as usual with all the articles. Thanks (Unknown152438 (talk) 19:00, 20 April 2023 (UTC))

@Unknown152438, this is not remain as usual with all the articles. This is against Wikipedia's guidelines and can be considered disruptive editing and WP:OWN issues. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 01:35, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Unknown152438 The localised conventions (i.e. whatever we have had on the series of Star Awards page) contravenes the Manual of Styles on several points of which @Justanothersgwikieditor is trying to rectify, primarily on the usage of Chinese characters at MOS:CHINESE (and colours (WP:COLOURS). If you would like these conventions to remain, the discussion has to be thrown open to the general Wikipedia community via a Request for Comments. A local consensus (i.e. between just us and any of the interested Star Awards editors) established here that contradicts the MOS is generally not acceptable by the wider community (see: Note a at MOS page). – robertsky (talk) 03:08, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor@Robertsky

I have already accepted some of the in text changes but the nomination for popularity awards which some of the artistes name has Chinese characters and some of it are not it does not fit well in the MOS as well, did MOS told anything that we should or should not put Chinese characters besides the artiste? This is Innapropriate to have few Chinese characters displayed and a few doesn't. @Robertsky, please check previous Star Awards' articles which it had already have Chinese characters beside artiste names, not in favour of MOS. (Unknown152438 (talk) 03:37, 21 April 2023 (UTC))

@Justanothersgwikieditor, just refer to Star Awards 2016, Star Awards 2017, Star Awards 2018, Star Awards 2019, there are Chinese characters beside artistes names which had not cause conflict. (Unknown152438 (talk) 03:42, 21 April 2023 (UTC))

@Unknown152438, Again referring to WP:CHINESECHARACTERS, it is acceptable to allow Chinese characters to remain if there are are no articles for the English term (or person in our case now). If you wish to propose a wholesale removal of all Chinese characters, I am agreeable with it.

Also, there are many Wikipedia articles (beside the Star Awards article, there are also many biography articles which do not keep to the guidelines) which do not follow the guidelines and I am on a slow journey to help getting them to conform to it. This is why I started this section to request editors not to include the Chinese Characters in the first place so we do not have to fix it. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 03:54, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor, talking back, this is not English event so by putting Chinese text is appropriate and suitable. (Unknown152438 (talk) 03:58, 21 April 2023 (UTC))

@Unknown152438 This is not about is this an English, Chinese or whatever language event or not. This is an English writeup on an event. Inclusion of chinese characters on this English article is guided by the Chinese characters guidelines. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 04:13, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Unknown152438 To your first question: I suggest that you read and understand the specific section as linked in the shortcut WP:CHINESECHARACTERS. It is rather explicit. As for consistency of having Chinese characters besides the names, in my opinion, we can safely remove most, if not all of the Chinese characters from the artistes' names, and even the television shows if it can be shown that these people and shows have been reported with their English names in the English media. – robertsky (talk) 04:49, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Standardisation

Please move all awards (inclusive popularity awards) into Winners and nominees section. It is fine to have a sub section called popularity awards with all the various popularity-type awards. My personal choice is either you have all the subsections for the different categories like 74th Primetime Emmy Awards or just one main section for all the awards similar to 95th Academy Awards. The Academy Awards have the Governors Awards which is presented during the ceremony but is not one of the Academy Awards and hence should have their own sub sections. The only equivalent awards for Start Awards is the sponsored awards but as I am fine with this being in a standalone or merged section.

In terms of the differing formats for Star Awards over the years but the format of the articles is the same. Multiple ceremonies means multiple sub sections for Ceremony Information. Order of awards should either follow order of presentation or follow how the organiser presented the information. Personally I prefer order of presentation. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 02:01, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor, I had already left a warning on your talk page in concerned of disruptive editing, and it may causing vandalism to the Star Awards Articles as well. Also, your suggestion here has been read, I have nothing to do with those changes because I'm not the one who create various colours in the table for different ceremonies. Secondly, where there is the nomination lists beside artistes names there should be chinese characters beside, because this is a Chinese televsied ceremony and it has nothing to do with bilingual, English is just for others who do not understand chinese. Finally, Star Awards 2023 has a different arrangement from the organizers, which had its own separated ceremony prior to the event, so there is nothing to do with the orders with the presenters as well. If you have further concern, please ask further with the event organizer, Thanks. (Unknown152438 (talk) 19:16, 20 April 2023 (UTC))

@Unknown152438 You have templated me with a warning without any discussion and acting against a guideline. Yes, it has nothing with bilingual, English Wikipedia serves the English audience, if they do not understand Chinese, they would not have understand the Chinese characters as well so providing them with something they cannot read is considered helpful? Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 01:47, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor,some of the ceremonies are one of a kind or different with others, If you "personally" prefer order of presentation, why not you help to change? Please help to change the whole article if you think that your idea is more reliable. (Unknown152438 (talk) 19:04, 20 April 2023 (UTC))

Popularity Awards is Popularity Awards, there is nothing to do with Judged Categories. (Unknown152438 (talk) 19:19, 20 April 2023 (UTC))

@Unknown152438 What happened at Star Awards 2023 is precisely why I chose to discuss here. If there is no discussion here, there will be edit wars on the pages. I did a bold change in accordance to Wikipedia's guidelines, you reverted against Wikipedia's guideline and then demanded here that I go change it myself. This is rather frustrating and I am not spending my time to do such things.

Also with reference to your edit summary here, there was no discussion on WP:CHINESECHARACTERS and the discussion is focused on your unsourced contents which robertsky had spent a long time explaining to you and also our discussion in merging trivia into ceremony information which I assumed you accepted or ignored based on the lack of discussion or changes to my update to the article. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 01:52, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor The removal is done by you, I just reverted to have all the Chinese characters displayed to match with previous year Ceremony. You are the one who did not wanted to acept my explanation. (Unknown152438 (talk) 03:47, 21 April 2023 (UTC))

@Unknown152438 Your explanation is against the guideline, my edit summary included the guideline and explanation. You insisted Just remain as usual with all the articles. This discussion has deviated into WP:CHINESECHARACTERS issue and should just be concentrated at just that section. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 04:00, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor

As I said, you are firmly did not accept the flow of Star Awards Article. (Unknown152438 (talk) 04:05, 21 April 2023 (UTC))

@Unknown152438 If the flow is wrong, do we fix it or just let it continue? Also your so called "flow" is against the main flow of Wikipedia, against Wikipedia's guidelines. Your flow is wrong with the standards set by the community and I quote WP:CHINESECHARACTERS again. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 04:09, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Sculture65 @TVSGuy @Robertsky

I had already explained, if you so called "flow" which does not include Chinese characters, well as I know Wikipedia has a lot of articles which is not trustable because which is done by humans. Some of the Wikipedia guidelines might by wrong as well. As here I will stop chatting, I did not revert back your changes, let's just ask for everyone's opinion. Also, Star Awards' Article is less important article, I don't think we should take good care much on this unhealthy fight. (Unknown152438 (talk) 04:18, 21 April 2023 (UTC))

If you think the guidelines is wrong, go to Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) and suggest otherwise. – robertsky (talk) 04:52, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

Accessibility

I noted that some Star Awards articles have some tables with very different colour scheme. Please choose and standardise the colour scheme which follows MOS:COLOR and if there is a need, consult Wikipedia:WikiProject Accessibility in colour choice. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 02:10, 3 April 2023 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor, those colors represents the title card of the table of different ceremonies, if you wanted to standardize it, please help to do so. (Unknown152438 (talk) 19:02, 20 April 2023 (UTC))

@Unknown152438 Since you are rather adamant in going against Wikipedia's guidelines, asking me to help set a standard is not helping. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 01:38, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

@Justanothersgwikieditor It seems that you are the one who did not accept my explaination. (Unknown152438 (talk) 03:45, 21 April 2023 (UTC))

@Justanothersgwikieditor You are firmly editing on demand of yourself, Star Awards article had been bilingual every year in the past, those changes you've made in Star Awards 2023 is inappropriate, with only a few of artiste with Chinese characters beside. (Unknown152438 (talk) 03:53, 21 April 2023 (UTC))

@Unknown152438 Again, refer to WP:CHINESECHARACTERS, the discussion is here for some time and as there is no response, I went WP:BOLD and made the changes. Justanothersgwikieditor (talk) 03:56, 21 April 2023 (UTC)