Talk:Stargirl (TV series)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Filming

@BoogerD: I’m not seeing any sources about it Filming. We got the one saying January, and when I searched through twitter to see if a source could be found through there. I saw mention of filming beginning on February 4. Would you say this is something that can be moved to mainspace using the present January filming source? Rusted AutoParts 18:22, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

Sources

Hi, Favre1fan93. I saw you just reverted a couple of somebody's edits because it was published in heroichollywood. Is there a list of allowed of of non-allowed sources in enwiki, so every time one could check there? Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 19:37, 21 March 2020 (UTC)

For comic book related properties, this is a good list. And in general, any site with little editorial over site and user generated content (such as KSiteTV and SpoilerTV) are unreliable. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:21, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much. I'll use it. Now I can see that tvguide isn't in the list either. IKhitron (talk) 15:48, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

TV Guide can be used, but only for news articles/reports from them. Their listings can not. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:50, 22 March 2020 (UTC)

13 episodes

Hello, Favre1fan93. I am just qurious: It took me time to find a source that the season has 13 episodes, after I payed attention that there is not any number in the article. Why did you remove the source, but not the data? Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 08:53, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

I didn't realize 13 episode wasn't sourced elsewhere in the article. That was my error. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 17:40, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

I see. Thanks for the explanation. IKhitron (talk) 21:52, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

Viewers

I was just thinking about this, but should we include the CW viewers for each episode? Normally, we don't include "second" viewings or info from the non-primary broadcaster (which is DC Universe), but I felt in this case, since they are releasing so close to each other, it might be worth including? And maybe if it's not in the episode table, maybe just in a viewers section? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:10, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

I don't think we should include The CW viewers on the "episode table" and/or "ratings table" because they are "second" viewings and we can't really compare ratings in terms of apples-to-apples comparison like that. However, we can include just "audience viewership" with reliable source(s) like many other streaming web television series. I honestly don't think this web television series should be any different as they are many web television series had "second" viewings on television (through broadcasting). — YoungForever^(talk) 20:30, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Sure. I only suggested because it at least appears that the CW airing is more integral if you would to the series and how it's being presented than other series that have second viewings. And I understand what you are saying, and I wouldn't suggest this say for Swamp Thing come the fall when that airs on the CW. As I first mentioned, perhaps we don't rightfully include it in the table, but do make some sort of mention in the "audience viewership" section. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 22:17, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

I just don't think it would be appropriate to include them on the "episode table" and/or "ratings table" for the CW viewers. This wouldn't be fair to other secondary networks when the series decide to simulcast on other networks. Including The CW viewers on the episode table and ratings table would be both misleading and confusing to the general readers on Wikipedia, thinking The CW are the primary viewers of an original network when The CW is not the original network. Also, the CW viewings of the episodes are 10 minutes shorter. So, they are not the full episodes. The full episodes are only on DC Universe. — YoungForever^(talk) 23:12, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

I'm kinda leaning towards including it. This isn't much different than when a cable show drops their episode(s) 24 hours before their broadcast on a streaming service. - Brojam (talk) 22:51, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

@Brojam: That's a bit different as some cable television series does that within the same network but just on their online website and app. — YoungForever^(talk) 23:10, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

Yes, that's often true but not always the case since some drop on Hulu beforehand. - Brojam (talk) 23:13, 17 May 2020 (UTC)

I agree with Brojam – I am inclined to include The CW ratings. There is a similar issue with Hallmark's When Hope Calls – it was first released on Hallmarks Movies Now service (though in that case it was months earlier), but was ultimately later broadcast on Hallmark Channel. I've been tempted to dig up the ratings for the show on Hallmark Channel to add to the episodes table, for similar reasons – I think including TV viewership in cases like these is useful info, as long as it is made clear that the series was released via streaming first. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 14:39, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

Disagree. It's not a CW series, so we don't include CW ratings. It's that simple. -- /Alex/₂₁ 15:27, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

This looks like a unique situation to me, where the release is clearly a combo of streaming on DC Universe, streaming on CW's digital platforms, and airing on CW. Because of that I don't think you need to be beholden to the usual guideline here, and I think it would be useful information to include in the article. I would lean away from including it in the episode table since that is using the streaming release dates on DC Universe so to include the viewership numbers there would be mixing the two releases up and confusing. I think it would make sense to have a standard viewership table with the CW details in the reception section, as long as it clearly states that it is just for CW viewers. - adamstom97 (talk) 04:40, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

No objection to this alternate proposal – in fact, this is kind of what I was leaning towards doing at When Hope Calls as well... --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:10, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

If we didn't include them in the episode table (which I felt was a long shot anyways), that was my intent as well, to include them in a reception section, clearly noted that they were the CW viewers. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:13, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

The Ratings table creates a whole new problem when the series decided to simulcast in other secondary networks.— YoungForever^(talk) 23:39, 19 May 2020 (UTC)

But again in that instance, if it happens, those would be ignored as we've done in the past. I still feel the fact in this instance, being tied to the CW as close as it is, should not be dismissed. It's definitely a more unique situation than just a simple airing on a new network, or a case like Swamp Thing coming to the network months later. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:30, 21 May 2020 (UTC)

Include the CW ratings already, the extra information makes the article better! ⭐⭐⭐ As a reader I am interested in how the ratings hold up over the season, or in this case getting a rough idea of how the ratings compare to other shows on the CW (headline says "decent" [1]). That it previews a day ahead on DC streaming barely matters at all. Ultimately a few lines of prose explaining the ratings is far more useful to me as a reader than the ratings figures themselves. Please make sure to include some text with the table. -- 109.77.203.218 (talk) 01:17, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

There still isn't a clear consensus yet. As the CW isn't the original network. — YoungForever^(talk) 01:35, 7 June 2020 (UTC)

Agree that the ratings should be added to the article (in the 'Reception' section) – it is likely that ratings on The CW will directly impact renewal decisions on this show. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:01, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

I didn't think of that, but seeing how AT&T looks to be gutting DC Universe as a service, that may be a factor on the future of the series, including where it is released for season 2 should it get one. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:51, 10 June 2020 (UTC)

The series has now been renewed by the CW for the second season and it will be moving to the CW as an original series, the second season will be airing exclusively on the CW. — YoungForever^(talk) 17:24, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

@YoungForever and Alex 21: given this, do either of you still have any objection to creating a ratings table for season 1 episodes with the CW viewership data? - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:31, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Yes, my answer has not changed as DC Universe is the original network for season 1. Season 2 is when it moves to the CW. — YoungForever^(talk) 19:42, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Given the situation the series is in, I still feel we can clearly mark a ratings table for season 1 and say it was only the CW viewers, and how DC Universe doesn't release viewer data, and then continue on for season 2. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 20:04, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

I still think that is the best option, especially since the series' ratings on the CW are clearly noteworthy enough to make them order the second season themselves. The only reason I can see to not include the first season ratings is because we don't usually do that, but I think this situation is clearly unique and warrants the change. - adamstom97 (talk) 00:52, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Well at this point I would say for completeness sake the ratings for Season 1 needs to be included since Season 2 will be on The CW as a CW Original show and leave DC Universe. After the season concludes it will be added to HBO Max. It makes no sense to have Season 2 viewership ratings but not Season 1 just because Season 1 was a "DC Universe" exclusive and aired a day later on The CW. This is a unique situation not one that establishes a precedent. Alucard 16_{❯❯❯ chat?} 13:49, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

I agree, this is an entirely unique situation. Hypothetically, if season 1 only aired on DC Universe and now halfway through the season, The CW comes in an acquires the broadcast rights to the series to air at a later point (and that ultimately gets it a second season), I don't think an of us would be advocating for a ratings table. (This I guess would almost be like Swamp Thing, as in, come the fall, I don't think that should have a ratings table, but perhaps some viewership prose). However, since The CW airing for season 1 is essentially day and date with DC Universe and as Adamstom said, clearly the viewership numbers on The CW had some factor in getting it renewed, I think it is justifiable. As we've all been saying, this isn't a normal situation, and I don't think we should look at it like one, and sometimes we need to make adjustments to what normally happens to properly present information that could be helpful. And those in support are only advocating for a ratings section and table, not putting any ratings info in the season 1 episode table. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 14:53, 7 July 2020 (UTC)

Also wanted to add, Collider describes the current arrangement as air[ing] simultaneously on the CW and DC Universe. I can see if other sites say anything similar, but I do believe that's how most of the media considers the arrangement, which in turn, would not be incorrect of us to have a ratings table for season 1. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 18:59, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

It should be added to the Reception section, esp. now, and further I think this discussion now demonstrates that we have consensus to do so. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 05:52, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Season 1 still isn't even a simulcast. The CW is still airing repeat episodes of already released episodes of DC Universe for season 1. — YoungForever^(talk) 06:36, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Two points: 1) the ratings on The CW directly led to the show's renewal on just The CW so they are obviously directly relevant information, and 2) consensus isn't "unanimity" – IOW, there doesn't need to be an agreement from every editor to include this. At this point, you're the only objection remaining: all other editors think the info is relevant and should be included. --IJBall (contribs • talk) 15:08, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Not on the episode table, just ratings table on under the reception for season 1. There isn't a consensus to include ratings in the episode table though. Please see Favre1fan93's response below. — YoungForever^(talk) 16:52, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and included the viewer table for The CW. Will also look for prose commentary on the CW ratings to add, if any. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:03, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

To be clear, are we adding both on the episode table and ratings table under the reception or just ratings table under the reception? Adding on episode table is definitely misleading as we using the DC Universe original release date. — YoungForever^(talk) 16:09, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Just the ratings table under reception. I believe everyone in support of adding ratings was in agreement not to include in the episode table, because that represents the DC Universe release date. That was my initial thought anyways. Hence why I titled the section "The CW ratings" and included the short sentence at the top. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 16:19, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for clearing that up. — YoungForever^(talk) 18:47, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

References

Based on this article, "The CW ratings" sections have now appeared at other articles, such as Tell Me a Story and Killer Camp. These sections are directly a result of this discussion, guaranteed. -- /Alex/₂₁ 00:14, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

@Alex 21: It is absolutely completely different for Tell Me a Story (TV series) and Killer Camp as they broadcast 1-2 years later on The CW. Absolutely not appropriate to add "The CW ratings" for the two series at all. The CW do not have a say on their renewals at all. I would not be surprised if it happens over by Swamp Thing (2019 TV series) when it broadcast on The CW later this year. — YoungForever^(talk) 00:47, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Agree with YoungForever. Those are inappropriate uses of ratings tables. As I feel all have been advocating throughout this discussion, this instance is especially unique and the consensus gained here was for this article. It's very possible a similar situation might come up again in the future, and that article could use this discussion for guidance, but the consensus here does not automatically mean the acquired programming the CW is airing should have ratings table for the CW airings. And to state once again to put down in this discussion, because I know it will come up as Young said, this would not apply to Swamp Thing's CW airing in a few months. Tell Me A Story, Killer Camp, and Swamp Thing are all "normal" instances we've experienced in the past with a new network picking up broadcasting rights after its first run on other networks. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:45, 8 August 2020 (UTC)

Justin

Hello. Is there some source that Justin is "centuries old"? I can't find this in mentioned sources. More than that, one of them describes the comics version, with the opposite to "centuries old", immortality or philosopher's stone - the time travel option. IKhitron (talk) 11:33, 17 August 2020 (UTC)

Combined episodes into one?

Hello, I just noticed that for example Shiv Part 1 and Part 2 and Stars and Stripe Parts 1 and 2 were combined into one. The summary section clearly shows which is which. But im confused as to the change? It seems more confusing to do this when the episodes didn't air together. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C0:6500:9210:68A7:49C7:C670:788F (talk) 06:59, 27 October 2020 (UTC)

They weren't changed, as far as I can tell, they were always listed thus. Given their parted status, they are two parts of one story. Hence the multiple episode numbers. -- /Alex/₂₁ 07:03, 29 October 2020 (UTC)

Principal Bowin and the Fiddler

This review from The A.V. Club reference what was said in the episode saying Other ISA reveals: Principal Bowin was apparently married to the original Fiddler... It still isn't definitive, but could be used as a source should anyone choose. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 15:32, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

But, she hasn't been explicitly confirmed to be the new Fiddler yet, as of up to episode 8 "Shiv Part Two". — YoungForever^(talk) 18:51, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

True, just when I made this post, a lot of editors were trying to change it, and this was the closest I found to source linking Bowin to "the Fiddler" based on what we've seen so far. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 21:52, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

I am not sure if we would even know by the end of this season. If it is not confirmed by the end of this season, we definitely should not characterized her as the new Fiddler. — YoungForever^(talk) 20:15, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

None of the ISA members have directly called her the fiddler right? They've all used their codenames amongst each other but no one has called her by that name. 81.97.84.42 (talk) 20:34, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

As of up to episode 12 "Stars & S.T.R.I.P.E Part One", no one directly called her the Fiddler. — YoungForever^(talk) 20:51, 9 August 2020 (UTC)

Update: I just watched the season 1 finale several hours ago and it is not confirmed that she is new Fiddler. We are going to have to wait for the series' creator, writers, or executive producers to confirm with a reliable source or wait til season 2. — YoungForever^(talk) 19:15, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. - Favre1fan93 (talk) 19:53, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree too. While its clear Bowin is using the Fiddlers violin, that doesn't automatically make her the new Fiddler. The writers haven't revealed what happened to Bowin's husband which could be a future plot point. The ISA members not calling her the Fiddler could mean that he is alive and could return in a future season. 81.97.84.42 (talk) 20:04, 10 August 2020 (UTC)

At least Isaac Bowin was able to see his father on the ISA portrait and we got to see more of the special fiddle in action. There was no further information on if Fiddler is dead or alive. If he is also called Isaac Bowin, he would be listed as Isaac Bowin Sr. while the younger one would be Isaac Bowin Jr. Only time will tell about the original Fiddler's fate. --Rtkat3 (talk) 19:40, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

cast list is ridiculous

The cast list should either be spun off into it's own page or pared back to actual notable cast members... pretty much all the people in the "co-stars" category are not notable.. if they don't have an article or they don't play a character from the comics there is no reason to include them. What is special about "Grumpy Joe" or "Father Thomas" that they are listed? Even some of the other lists? Henry's friends from season 1? They are not at all important to be on this page. Spanneraol (talk) 22:15, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

I agree, it is inappropriate to add co-starring cast members. This is not Wikia nor IMDb. — YoungForever^(talk) 23:11, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Those characters can be re-added when a character page is made for the characters of this show before the debut of the third season. It did take awhile before the List of Batwoman characters was accepted and the draft for the List of Superman & Lois characters is in the works. Either way, the characters would be sorted into their respectful sections like they did for the other Arrowverse character pages and the character pages for the different shows set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. If any of you agree or disagree with my proposal, please state your opinions below. --Rtkat3 (talk) 19:40, 6 October 2021 (UTC)

It feels more like someone should create separate articles for season 1 & 2 as per the usual tradition. (talk) 10:07, 11 October 2021 (UTC)