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Stanford Controversy

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I think that the "Stanford Controversy" that was written is really bias against Tablo. No offence. There is sufficient proofs/evidence that Tablo DID go to Stanford and he DID graduate from Stanford. So why is the part "Stanford Controversy" up? And also, why is his mother dragged into this? His mother being first place in world skills competition does not link to him being in Stanford at all. So it does sound bias too. And also through interviews, he has been known to be in Stanford. So why are you bringing this up even on his Wiki page?

check out this CNN video. http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/international/2010/04/22/talkasia.epik.high.cnn?iref=allsearch


This part, "An internet site was made called <타블로에게 진실을 요구합니다>http://cafe.naver.com/whathero. This translates in English: <Tablo, we ask for the truth>. The site has over 120,000 members and growing is daily.

Amid the controversy the Canadian still refuses to give sufficient evidence that no-one can refute only growing the speculation. Documents asked to resolve the matter are an authentic graduate certificate, authentic academic records and the article number of his master´s thesis. All which even his fans claim can be printed and certified under 30 minutes."

it's totally bias! seriously, no offence, but tone of whatever that's written here now is not neutral at all.

i have edited it. 219.75.5.212 (talk) 12:44, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I think the "Stanford controversy" has been ended, at least here on Wikipedia, with the addition of reliable independent sources about his Stanford attendance. We now have two sources, one from Stanford Magazine and the other an interview in the Stanford Daily. I didn't realize this was a big controversy in Korea. The people you describe, demanding "proof" and shouting "fraud", sound like the so-called Birthers in the United States - people for whom no amount of proof is enough to satisfy them. --MelanieN (talk) 14:28, 8 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The sources from cafe should be ignored. Personally, in this argument, I support for Tablo, but this is Wikipedia. Every article should be unbiased, in terms of Wikipedia's standards. With that being said, I've been to both /whathero and /whoiswhat. Both sites are biased for and against Tablo, and therefore those two sites are not liable sources. In the future, please, do not include these websites, as they only show your ignorance and bias towards the community. I've also deleted the link going to whathero cafe since it shows bias. If you decide to put it back up and keep it, however, you should also put up cafe.naver.com/whoiswhat in order to balance out the sources.Supernovamaniac (talk) 12:53, 30 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe a Canadian Fraud?

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Certified?

Nothing has been certified yet.

I have not stated in my article whether the claims are correct or false.

I am stating the fact that it is a controversy.

Besides all these claims are translated straight from the Korean Wiki.

Both sources from the Stanford Magazine and Stanford Daily are not valid sources as you should know. They are both written by Korean fans who just like you and me assumed he graduated from Stanford. Also all those interviews where he claims he went to Stanford just only means he said those words. It doesn't prove a thing. As for his mother, this is another thing said by the Canadian himself. The reason it is raised is because it is contentious as well, read the link.

Also the reason this is a huge issue is because this Canadian used his so called degrees to achieve fame. Even if some of these are correct he should apolozize and reveal the truth about everything that is contentious.

I do not have links for all his claims but they are so famous in Korea that you only need to do a little reasearch. All a claims made by himself during TV interviews. If you want I can give you the exact time and TV program during which these claims were made.

Please if you have a problem don't delete and lets talk. But I seriously doubt the information you have about this Canadian. So please do the research first.

OK, I have retained the Controversies section, and I added some comments of my own about what does and doesn't seem to be true. I also tried to tone down the non-neutral tone of the section, such as your repeated references to him as "The Canadian" instead of proper Wikipedia style referring to him by his name. If you want this material to remain in the article, you must observe the Wikipedia requirement of WP:Neutrality. And I insist that you stop deleting the fact that he went to Stanford, since that fact is now well supported by independent, reliable sources as required by Wikipedia. If you continue to delete this you are liable to be blocked from posting, for carrying on an WP:Edit war. --MelanieN (talk) 03:31, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please read

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Listen.

If you want sources for what I have written.

I can give them to you OK?

those claims by the Canadian are from TV interviews. Why don't you listen to them yourself? And upload them for me?

So stop deleting without knowing anything please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohmann (talk • contribs) 03:21, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Dear Melaine

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Firstly, do you understand or speak Korean at all? I doubt that you do and I doubt the reliability of your so called sources when hardly any thing is written about this guy in English. In other words prove you can understand Korean or you shouldn't really be editing this article should you?

Secondly, you say that there the Stanford degree has not contention what so ever. Then please send your evidence to any media outlet in South Korea so this whole issue can be resolved.

Oh do you think 50 million South Koreans are all stupid and haven't tried doing that? I have no idea what source you continue to go on about but the only reliable source has not been given what so ever. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohmann (talk • contribs) 03:38, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Melanie

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listen

right now there is no proof that he graduated from Standford

also there is no proof that he didn't


I doubt that you even speak or understand Korean.

But this is a huge issue right here OK?

And people want to know the truth.

The media will not stop until the actual truth is revealed.


I say we wait a couple of days until this gets resolved.

Then you can put up that he graduated from here or what ever you want to do.


Pleae reply. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rohmann (talk • contribs) 03:48, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Reply: As I posted at your talk page, I don't need to read Korean, to gather information from Stanford itself; information from Stanford is supplied in English. And there are several sources from Stanford (an independent third party as required by Wikipedia) showing that he was indeed enrolled in the bachelors/masters program at Stanford and that he in fact did receive a bachelor's degree and a master's degree from Stanford in 2002. The first of these sources appeared in Stanford Magazine, which is an official publication of Stanford University. Most of the articles in it are written by alumni, as this one was. But Stanford always fact-checks to confirm that the person being written about is an alumnus. This article describes Tablo as "DANIEL LEE, ’02, MA ’02." That means that he got a bachelor's degree in 2002 and a master's degree also in 2002. (Similarly the University describes me as "MELANIE (my last name), '63, MEd '64." I needed an extra year to get my master's degree.) There is no way that Stanford Magazine would allow him to be described that way if he hadn't actually earned those degrees.
The second source is from the Stanford Daily, which is the student newspaper, dated May 2002. You may decide not to trust any fact presented by this student reporter. But one thing that is beyond dispute is that David Lee was actually a Stanford student, enrolled in the coterminal program, in May 2002. That's the only way this article could exist.
Users below have posted two additional sources of information: a list of Stanford alumni from the year 2002, with his name on it; and a copy of his diploma posted on the internet, which looks exactly like my own Stanford diploma.
You are apparently convinced that he did not graduate from Stanford - so convinced that no amount of proof will convince you. As the saying goes, "My mind is made up, don't confuse me with facts." But the proof presented here IS enough to meet Wikipedia's criteria of "independent, reliable sources," and so the fact that he has those two diplomas from Stanford is established by Wikipedia standards. If you keep deleting this well-sourced fact, it means that you do not accept Wikipedia standards. And if you refuse to accept Wikipedia standards, then Wikipedia (through its administrators) may decide that you cannot post here. --MelanieN (talk) 00:42, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, since you only respect Korean sources, you might take a look at this: "Tablo’s certifications in Stanford Uni verified amidst allegations of fake education qualifications but questions still remain," from sookyeong.wordpress.com. --MelanieN (talk) 03:58, 10 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

FYI

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Hi. For your information, the Stanford Magazine and Stanford Daily sources are VALID, because they are NOT written by fans. Prove to me they are fans then. If you do actually read the article, Stanford Magazine's article is written by CAROL EUNMI LEE, ’88, MA ’90, is an associate professor at the University of Wisconsin-Madison. And Stanford Daily article is written by Jung Lah, who has also written other articles for Stanford Daily. Just because they're Koreans doesn't mean they are a fan. also, Tablo's name is in the Stanford Alumnus 2002 as Daniel S. W. Lee. So it's already proven that he's in Stanford. http://www.stanfordalumni.org/erc/reunions/rh07missing_reader.html?search_text=02&searching=1 152.226.7.202 (talk) 04:19, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]


In addition, why don't you give us your proof that he's not a graduate from Stanford? All I see is your opinion. If your evidence are clear enough to be believed, you'd win easily. I doubt that Tablo would lie like this just to get fame and even to the world?! No, he wouldn't have the gut to do this to his life and family to the whole world. Why are you hiding behind your screen? Don't have the courage to take this to court face to face or to the government? If you want to take this case to court, I suggest that you provide pure evidence that he committed a fraud and that he is not a graduate from Stanford. You think that Tablo's diploma from Stanford is a fake? Why don't you show it to the government or the school itself and find if it really is a fake? Plus, why would you ask Tablo to speak up the truth when you don't even trust him? I suggest that if you want the truth, you should ask Stanford University itself. This is much much more direct rather than having us listen to your blabbering bullshit. Also, in majority, Tablo did not get his fame by graduating from Stanford, it was only your thought that he's a genius and you're not. His musics and efforts to collaborating with famous singers is what makes him to fame not his degree. By the way, a degree has nothing to do with making music, as long as he has the talent, that's what it's all about.

Plus, we don't have to understand Korean to understand what's going on. What if I ask you this? You don't understand English, why are you blabbering about his education when really it is music? Won't you feel the same? Maybe not, because you are ignorant.

To add another awareness, Tablo's family has nothing to do with his degree. Please don't try to bring them down to your feet like dirt. You know there are pure evidence and proofs spread all over the Stanford website and the internet.

Evidence http://blog.naver.com/oopssk520/60108691424 http://blog.naver.com/lovehotsm/140108457525 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.194.167.21 (talk) 17:32, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence

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There is evidence of Tablo graduating from Stanford. http://blog.naver.com/lovehotsm/140108457525

His diploma is shown on national TV. So it does prove that he did graduate from that university. It cannot be a fake at all. Cause if it was, he would have been fined, banned from TV and stuff like that. Usually if celebrities fake anything on national TV, including words that they say, there would be dire consequences. If his diploma was a fake, he wouldn't even dare to show it on TV. So this is also a proof of his diploma.

And on CNN too, they would have done their research first before interviewing anyone. So I don't think whatever said on the interview is fake.

Also, i think this whole "stanford controversy" thing is unfair. It's more like attacking him rather than neutral. I said it before. Everything is written as "His claim this, his claim that" And I also mentioned about his mother, which doesn't have any link to his university life. So i think that SHOULD BE removed.

lastly, another evidence, though it's indirect.. http://www.allkpop.com/2010/04/epik-highs-tablo-to-sue-netizen-for-defamation (in english) http://kr.news.yahoo.com/service/news/shellview.htm?linkid=63&articleid=2010042823522383334&newssetid=33 (in korean)

Tablo wouldn't sue the netizen, IF his diploma/degree was a fake. You wouldn't sue a person if you do not have evidence either. But since he's gonna do it, he definitely has proofs that he's been there. 219.75.5.212 (talk) 09:26, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Controversy"

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The controversy over his Stanford education seems to have been fairly completely debunked, and so I have edited the Controversies section. I removed the list of other claims because they are not verified and may be libelous under WP:BLP. --Ben Applegate (talk) 07:19, 11 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Whoever put in the section about his Canadian citizenship -- it is very POV and I have removed it. Tablo is Korean-Canadian and there is no evidence that the reason he decided to maintain his Canadian citizenship was expressly to avoid military service. I am disturbed by the public shaming of someone simply for being Canadian and especially by the mention of the Cheonan, which has nothing to do with Tablo. There are many ethnic Korean entertainers who maintain dual citizenship for personal reasons.--Ben Applegate (talk) 03:44, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

yeahh i think so too. it's not neutral at all. more like bias. Since it's added again, i'm gonna remove it. Because this was added by the same person who added the Stanford controversy. Well, okay, it's removed. :)) 219.75.5.212 (talk) 04:22, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Canada dual nationality?

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I have removed this as it is as it says, rumour and speculation.

Another controversy is his Canadian citizenship. It is rumored that he operates and resides in South Korea and has always maintained his Canadian citizenship so he would not be recruited to the 22 months of compulsory service in the Republic of Korea Armed Forces.[1][2] This, of course, has never been proven to be true

Musical style

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This need citing or rewriting with citation to support it. Off2riorob (talk) 16:53, 12 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tablo claims to have been a long time fan of hip hop music, citing an almost lifelong affair with the culture itself. While listening to hip hop at an early age through artists such as Run-DMC and acquiring Cold Crush tapes, he concurrently gained recognition as a rhymer. His major and enduring love affair with making hip hop music was sparked later in life, however; after hearing Drunken Tiger rapping, the group "Epik High" was formed in 2000 at an early time in the culture's local evolution. Tablo has since claimed to be the first emcee to have used the "rhyming rifle" technique. With the hip hop scene in Korea and Korean emcees being known for their fickle tendencies, Tablo has through the years kept alive his legacy and career through numerous shows, appearances on influential overseas (American most notably) hip hop artists work, such as EPMD, and now plans to release a solo album within the near future.

  • ... interesting to note that his violin teacher who told him "music is communism, but you're playing democracy" doesn't seem to realize that communism and democracy are not opposing or contradicting ideas in any way... I guess this pupil of Isaac Stern was never taught politics properly... at least Tablo seems to have outgrown him in that respect... --Immer in Bewegung (talk) 06:14, 14 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Plagiarism Controversies

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As of July 15th 2010, major South Korean media outlets have reported claims that up to 30 of his songs has been rumored with plagiarism. All of Epikhighs songs are claimed to be written or composed by the Canadian himself. [3][4]

These include: 'Nocturne' resembling ‘Once Upon a Time’ by Donna Summer. 'Let It Rain' resembling T'en va pas by Elsa Lunghini. '혼자라도' resembling 'Lady You Are' by One way. '11월 1일' resembling 'The Grand Duel Parte Prima' of the Kill Bill OST. '따라해' resembling Ghosts n Stuff by Deadmau5.

Many sites have been made to show their extreme similarities sparking issues as to plagiarism. One of these include http://wikitree.co.kr/main/news_view.php?id=12870.

Stop deleting this you moron. Your probably another moron who doesnt speak a word of Korean. I am going to report you if you delete this one more time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.155.97.96 (talk) 12:48, 15 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

hi. i just wanna say, Epik High's songs weren't plagiarized, that's why Epik High wasn't sued. People who have all legit Epik High albums will know that Epik High SAMPLED those songs. And anyway, he didn't copy lyrics anyway. ANd it was DJ Tukutz who produced the beats for the sampled songs. And, by calling someone a moron, means you're verbally attacking that person. No offence to anyone. I'm gonna take it down alright? 116.14.183.104 (talk) 17:57, 6 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

UNFAIR

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I feel that it's unfair because contents in "Diploma forgery scandal and defamation lawsuit" are totally bias against him. Why bring Tablo's brother into his wiki page anyway? And, Tablo has already proved that he's a student and a graduate of Stanford, so why continue to pursue this case and bring it to his wiki page? It makes wiki unreliable. It is really obvious that the words put there are against him! And how sure is everyone that Tablo is NOT Daniel Seon Woong Lee? Just because you say he isn't? Prove that he isn't then! Give proper evidences that he isn't. Seriously, this page is being "ATTACKED".. or rather, Tablo is being attacked by netizens because that can't accept the fact that he's from Stanford. Just because people can't understand that fact, they chose to attack him now using his citizenship as a reason. Where is the logic here? I'm seriously gonna remove what I think is wrong. My reasons are stated here. Seriously, I don't see any respect given to Tablo here. 121.7.62.210 (talk) 16:56, 21 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Biographies of living persons

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Our policy on WP:BLP forbids the use of unsourced negative information in biographies of living persons. Anyone who thinks that Tablo did not graduate from Stanford University needs to prove their point up to the standards of WP:Verifiability. The fact that rumors may be circulating on the internet does not decide what content should be included in this article. (Some of the people propagating the rumors seem to be ignoring good evidence that he did graduate). If anonymous editors insert any further negative information without also providing reliable sources, this article may be protected against anonymous editing. If registered editors insert unsourced negative information, further steps may be taken. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 00:30, 27 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article is now semiprotected. I see that anonymous editors have been continuing to revert the article without joining in any discussion on the talk page. Anonymous editors: if you think the article should be changed, please make your case here on the talk page. Someone who has an account can then make the change for you, if the change is uncontroversial or if it has consensus. You can use {{editsemiprotected}} to get assistance if you wish. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 14:59, 28 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ http://www.pulug.com/news/news_view.html?n_idx=22897&n_ctgr=7
  2. ^ http://www.mediatoday.co.kr/news/articleView.html?idxno=88914
  3. ^ http://www.tvdaily.co.kr/read.php3?aid=127917420373145002
  4. ^ http://news.joins.com/article/563/4314563.html?ctg=15

New Picture

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File:Http://snag.gy/gWMkf.jpg
Oct 25, 2014 Tablo

Oct 25, 2014.

Place of Birth

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In the brief about him, it says he was born in Seoul. But then in the bio it says he was born in Jakarta. Needs to be sorted. One is clearly wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.62.127.233 (talk) 17:07, 30 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Congratulations

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Congratulations on making it to today's listing on the "Did You Know..." section of Wikipedia Main Page. The process of making it the listing takes a bit of effort and involves the quick cooperation of many editors. All involved deserve recognition, appreciation, thanks and applause.

Best Regards,
  Bfpage |leave a message  15:01, 11 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Born in Seoul or Jakarta?

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I don't know how to post something in the talk page Melanie mentioned about. In the link I provided, http://icaruswalksnet.tumblr.com/post/83869795691/note-these-articles-may-not-be-as-accurate the admin mentioned 2 interviews (from Tablo himself and his mother) that you can read it as Tablo was born in Jakarta. Maybe you can try to open that source? On that source the admin also provide the source of the post. Or show me the evidence if Tablo said he was born in Seoul. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.254.68.79 (talk) 16:41, 9 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

A tumblr post is not a usable source and neither is the persons own words. People can lie or simply miss-remember, also that interview is once again depending on whether or not it was translated correctly....that's why we use third person reliable sources, Though because it's kpop an article talking about them talking about it will probably be the best we get. It can be in Korean or any language as long as people are sure of it's contents and the site is reliable, but if one can not be found for Indonesia or South Korea than the best thing to do is to remove the birth place altogether. My suggestion in that case is to write it down as "he was born to South Korean parents on blah blah date". Peachywink (talk) 02:42, 10 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge with BloNote

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Non-notable book. Should be merged into this article, or deleted. TheDragonFire (talk) 01:53, 17 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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