Talk:Telugu language

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Request to clean up false information and unreliable source form Telugu language page

Dear @Kwamikagami:, @AntanO:, @Doug Weller:, @RegentsPark:

In recent edit the user Id Anandwiki.ind and some others has writing their own story with unreliable reference. The edits by them have been written from a fan's point of view, rather than a neutral point of view. Please clean it up to conform to a higher standard of quality, and to make it neutral in tone. I have few points for with the content has false information and unreliable news article, website reference.

1. Present wrong content in Wikipedia: Earliest inscriptions with Telugu words date back to c. 400 BCE in Bhattiprolu of Andhra Pradesh.

Current wikipedia reference: ^[1]^[2]

Remarks: Attachrd reference says that the Bhattiprolu increption were released by Satavahanas after 3Rd century BCE in Prakrit language by Brahmi script. Here is is nothing related with Telugu language

2. Present wrong content in Wikipedia: Telugu words were also found in the inscriptions of Emperor Ashoka (257 BCE), Satavahanas, and Vishnukundinas

Current wikipedia reference: Sinopoli, Carla M. (2001). "On the edge of empire: form and substance in the Satavahana dynasty". Empires: Perspectives from Archaeology and History. Cambridge University Press. p. 163. ISBN 9780521770200.

Remarks: Attached reference page 163 has not said anything about Telugu language

3. Present wrong content in Wikipedia: Inscriptions in Old Telugu script were found as far away as Indonesia and Myanmar.

Reference: no reference says about this

4.Present wrong content in Wikipedia: Erragudi Asokan Rock Edict in Old Telugu belongs to 257 BCE.

Wikipedia reference: ^[3]

Remarks: Attached reference has not says that Erragudi Ashoka increption has Telugu language and this reference is not reliable.

5.Present wrong content in Wikipedia: The Bhattiprolu stone Buddhist casket in Old Telugu belongs to 3rd century BCE. Remarks: thus Bhattiprolu inception is belongs to Prakrit language.

6. One of the first words in the Telugu language, "nāgabu", was found on a granite pillar in the Amaravati Stupa.^[4] It is dated to 2nd century BCE and is probably, the name of a stonemason. Its structural and grammatical analysis played a key role in studying Indus script by Iravatham Mahadevan.^[4]^[5]^[6]

Remarks: unreliable webite source

7. Several personal names and place names traceable to Telugu roots are found in various Sanskrit and Prakrit inscriptions of 2nd and 1st centuries BCE.^[7] Reference: attached reference has not said like this

8. A number of Telugu words were found in the Sanskrit and Prakrit inscriptions of the Satavahana dynasty, Vishnukundina dynasty, and Andhra Ikshvakus. Remarks: above mentioned dynasties has released only Prakrit and Sanskrit increptions

9. The coin legends of the Satavahanas, in all areas and all periods, used a Prakrit dialect without exception. Some reverse coin legends are in Telugu.

Remarks: Satavahanas released bilungual coins with Prakrit at one side, Tamil with Tamil brahmi script another side. Proof: The Satavahana coins are inscribed in Prakrit and Tamil, this is the current expert opinion of scholars such as Iravatham Mahadevan and C. Somasundara Rao (A Telugu professor of history and archaeology) (Mahadevan 2020 Early Tamil epigraphy, 2nd edition, p. 237-243, and C. Somasundara Rao 1997, a note on bilingual legends on Satavahana coins pp. 17-21) https://books.google.co.in/books?id=2YUECwAAQBAJ&pg=PA200&dq=C.+Somasundara+Rao+1997,+a+note+on+bilingual+legends+on+Satavahana+coins&hl=ta&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiw86SrxuOHAxWLs1YBHZKWBk4Q6AF6BAgIEAM#v=snippet&q=Satvahana%20tamil&f=false Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 19:13, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The points 6,7,8 & 9 having nothing wrong and they can be seen in the attached citations too.

The remaining points were NOT added by me.

I have removed those sentences which claimed some Prakrit inscriptions as Telugu ones.

Thanks for pointing these. Anandwiki.ind (talk) 19:52, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

My contribution to this page, was primarily the "Pre-historic Telugu", which was presented with clear and reliable citations, which were repeatedly vandalised and deleted by @Tirukodimadachengunrur

I'm not responsible for the other contributions which claimed Prakrit inscriptions as the Telugu ones. So I removed them. Anandwiki.ind (talk) 20:06, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I removed some FRINGE material about Harappan. The relevant bits (the cave inscription) can be cited directly to the source that they used. — kwami (talk) 21:33, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As adviced by @Kwamikagami,I have added direct references in the section: "Epigraphical evidences".

Also, I would convey that as falsely accused by @Tirukodimadachengunrur, I have nothing to do with some false information added here.

My contribution was primarily about the section: "Pre-historic Telugu", with all the required and reliable citations.

However, people like @Tirukodimadachengunrur practiced vandalism against all of those content and deleted all the important citations repeatedly.

I request the admins to constantly watch this page against any such vandalisms. Anandwiki.ind (talk) 22:29, 7 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You yourself accepting that you have posted some Prakrit related thing in Telugu. If I remove that mean called Vandalism? Think before talk Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 12:02, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I had never claimed of posting some Prakrit inscriptions as the Telugu ones.

In your edits, you've removed some unreliable claims and at the same, you have also deleted some other proper and valid citations too, which when I reverted them back, the former ones were also automatically reverted back.

I am not responsible for those claims. You can clearly check the Page edit history and find who added those things.

Understand before you speak. Anandwiki.ind (talk) 12:25, 8 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

why can't you report the used and content which claims prakrit inception? If you were not a part of that team? Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 06:30, 14 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Kwamikagami

The user @Tirukodimadachengunrur is making fringe edits in this page to demean the cultural sentiments of Telugu language and showcase his arrogance and biaseness towards his mother tongue 'Tamil' over it. Such kind of things are unhealthy to the legibility and repsect of Wikipedia.

Please watch this user. Anandwiki.ind (talk) 13:49, 16 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dear User:Anandwiki.ind, Wikipedia is not your own website to have content only from your contribution.

Please see the talk page. Iam adding the content this page as per the reliable source.

Regarding satavahana coin see the below. Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 08:46, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Tiru 2014

Understand that you cannot add whatever the points which are unrelated to the topic, even if you have enough citations.

The point of Telugu literature being less ancient than Tamil literature is not related to the section which talks about the earliest and Pre-historic data on the Telugu language.

It seems evident that you have added that point out of arrogance and biaseness, which is harmful for Wikipedia.

You are not the only editor of this page. There are many people who contributed, edited and reviewed this page in a fair way. Only you are problematic. Anandwiki.ind (talk) 11:22, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Typo : @Tirukodimadachengunrur Anandwiki.ind (talk) 11:22, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I am not adding an unrelated topic. I was added a point of Telugu antiquity among the Dravidan languages. You don't have rights to remove my contribution. The what story you have to defend the Satvahana tamil coin? User:Anandwiki.ind Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 11:34, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

You can compare Telugu with some 100 (extinct or living) languages across the world and say its literature is younger than all of them. It makes no clear point.

And to remind you again, antiquity of a language is not determined by its literature. Script and literature are latter concepts. Age of language predates them.

In the Satavahana case, there are still some disputes whether it's in Telugu or Tamil, so it's better to mention both. Anandwiki.ind (talk) 11:58, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

1. Telugu is a Dravidian language. It can be compared with other Telugu language for its antiquity.

2. Experts confirmed that Satvahana coin is in Tamil language with tamil Brahmi script. The increption has the words Thiru, Makan, Ku. These words are not available in both present Telugu and old Telugu. Use some basics about Dravidian language. Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 12:09, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

^ Agrawal, D. P.; Chakrabarti, Dilip K. (1979), Essays in Indian protohistory, The Indian Society for Prehistoric and Quaternary Studies/B.R. Pub. Corp., p. 326, ISBN 9780391018662, archived from the original on 13 October 2022, retrieved 15 November 2015
^ The Hindu News: Telugu is 2,400 years old, says ASI Archived 3 September 2015 at the Wayback Machine
^ Sircar, D. C. (1979). "Asokan Studies". Indian Museum, Calcutta. pp. 7, 8. Retrieved 2023-04-05.
^ ^a ^b Mahadevan, Iravatham (1 January 2010). "Harappan Heritage of Andhra: A New Interpretation" (PDF). International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics. 39 (1): 12. Nagabu: Personal name on a pillar in the Amaravati Stupa (ca. 2nd cent. BCE.).
^ "The Arrow Sign in the Indus Script 3". Harappa.com. Nagabu: Prob. name of a stone mason. On a granite pillar in the Amaravati Stupa. Dated variously between 2nd cent. B.C.E. and 2nd cent. CE
^ "ప్రాచీనాంధ్రశాసనములు, శ్రీ వేటూరి ప్రభాకర శాస్త్రి, భారతి మాస పత్రిక, జూన్ 1928". June 1928.
^ p.23, Chapter: III. (3 April 1969). "Historical Grammar of Telugu, K Mahadeva Sastri".{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)

Request to clean up unreliable source and unreliable source.

hi User:Austronesier, User:Doug Weller, User:Joshua Jonathan, User:AquitaneHungerForce.

This Telugu language page has lots of content with unreliable source, content in fans point of view, poor reference, news article citation. I request you all to review this and help is to make it reliable. Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 12:01, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

If you promise to immediately retire and stop adding poor content yourself in various places, I might consider to immediately start with a full review of potentially contentious statements in this article. –Austronesier (talk) 12:08, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dear User:Austronesier, iam sorry if I made any edits wrong. I am requesting you to review on this page. Tirukodimadachengunrur (talk) 12:11, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Check the 'Region' section in main table.

In the region table, many places with significant/minor presence of Telugu speakers are included. It even sidelined Andhra Pradesh and Telangana which must be the actual regions. 2409:40F4:102C:A2D6:EC00:E3FF:FE57:500D (talk) 19:16, 17 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Morphosyntax

"There are six word classes in Telugu: nominals (proper nouns, pronouns), verbs (actions or events), modifiers (adjectives, quantifiers, numerals), adverbs (modify the way in which actions or events unfold), and clitics."

I can only count five classes in this list: nominals, verbs, modifiers, adverbs, clitics.

Is the "six" wrong or has something been missed out? Hundovir (talk) 18:39, 2 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 18 October 2024

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Telugu language. (edit · history · last · links · protection log)

This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".

The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Change 'Telugu consonants' chart under Phonology to include palatal and velar nasals

Change 'Telugu consonants' chart under Phonology from using plain alveolar plosive IPA symbols to using dental plosive IPA symbols

Change

Telugu consonants
		Labial	Denti- alveolar		Retroflex	Post-alv./ Palatal	Velar	Glottal
		Labial	plain	sibilant	Retroflex	Post-alv./ Palatal	Velar	Glottal
Nasal		m m	n n		ɳ ṇ
Stop/ Affricate	unaspirated	p p	t t	t͡s ts	ʈ ṭ	t͡ʃ c	k k
	voiced	b b	d d	d͡z dz	ɖ ḍ	d͡ʒ j	ɡ g
	aspirated*	pʰ ph	tʰ th		ʈʰ ṭh	t͡ʃʰ ch	kʰ kh
	breathy voiced*	bʱ bh	dʱ dh		ɖʱ ḍh	d͡ʒʱ jh	ɡʱ gh
Fricative*		f f		s s	ʂ ṣ	ʃ ś		h h
Approximant		ʋ v	l l		ɭ ḷ	j y
Tap			ɾ r

to

Telugu consonants
		Labial	Denti- alveolar		Retroflex	Post-alv./ Palatal	Velar	Glottal
		Labial	plain	sibilant	Retroflex	Post-alv./ Palatal	Velar	Glottal
Nasal		m m	n n		ɳ ṇ	ɲ ñ	ŋ ṅ
Stop/ Affricate	unaspirated	p p	t̪ t	t͡s ts	ʈ ṭ	t͡ʃ c	k k
	voiced	b b	d̪ d	d͡z dz	ɖ ḍ	d͡ʒ j	ɡ g
	aspirated*	pʰ ph	t̪ʰ th		ʈʰ ṭh	t͡ʃʰ ch	kʰ kh
	breathy voiced*	bʱ bh	d̪ʱ dh		ɖʱ ḍh	d͡ʒʱ jh	ɡʱ gh
Fricative*		f f		s s	ʂ ṣ	ʃ ś		h h
Approximant		ʋ v	l l		ɭ ḷ	j y
Tap			ɾ r

{Thushar Reppale (talk) 21:20, 18 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. Geardona (talk to me?) 15:47, 8 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

It's now been re-protected. I don't know about this topic and I can't easily edit IPA characters, so simply re-activating until someone can figure out what to do. DMacks (talk) 12:46, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Page protection

@DMacks (talk) Can this page be protected? There are multiple edits which tread into vandalism, removal of cited content, and POV-pushing edits. Examples: 1, 2, 3, 4. L5boat (talk) 06:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done and also another page that they seem to be plaguing. Thanks for the heads-up, sorry the problem keeps happening. DMacks (talk) 12:42, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. L5boat (talk) 14:56, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[protohistory23-1] Agrawal, D. P.; Chakrabarti, Dilip K. (1979), Essays in Indian protohistory, The Indian Society for Prehistoric and Quaternary Studies/B.R. Pub. Corp., p. 326, ISBN 9780391018662, archived from the original on 13 October 2022, retrieved 15 November 2015

[Hindu3-2] The Hindu News: Telugu is 2,400 years old, says ASI Archived 3 September 2015 at the Wayback Machine

[3] Sircar, D. C. (1979). "Asokan Studies". Indian Museum, Calcutta. pp. 7, 8. Retrieved 2023-04-05.

[:14-4] Mahadevan, Iravatham (1 January 2010). "Harappan Heritage of Andhra: A New Interpretation" (PDF). International Journal of Dravidian Linguistics. 39 (1): 12. Nagabu: Personal name on a pillar in the Amaravati Stupa (ca. 2nd cent. BCE.).

[5] "The Arrow Sign in the Indus Script 3". Harappa.com. Nagabu: Prob. name of a stone mason. On a granite pillar in the Amaravati Stupa. Dated variously between 2nd cent. B.C.E. and 2nd cent. CE

[6] "ప్రాచీనాంధ్రశాసనములు, శ్రీ వేటూరి ప్రభాకర శాస్త్రి, భారతి మాస పత్రిక, జూన్ 1928". June 1928.

[7] .23, Chapter: III. (3 April 1969). "Historical Grammar of Telugu, K Mahadeva Sastri".{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: numeric names: authors list (link)

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