Talk:Thami El Glaoui

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Untitled

In spite of S710's stating he is "removing some POV" his major edit is to insert some argument from a supposed historian Victor A. Vyssotsky. Said person is not an historian, but a mathematician who has done some book reviewing on Amazon.com, and what S710 has inserted is some material from one of his reviews of a book on Morocco by C. R. Pennell. As Pennell's book was published prior to Abdessadek El Glaoui's biography of his father, which contains some essential material, it is hardly definitive ... in any case, it is most definitely "POV" as is most history. Hence I have reverted S710's edits. MisterCDE 04:25, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

PS: "He is almost universally reviled in Morocco as a traitor" is not a POV, its a fact. "He is a traitor" is a POV but that's not what I said. MisterCDE 04:39, 30 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

You can mention an opinion if you state whose opinion it is. "universally reviled as a ‘collabo’ (collaborationist with the French Protectorate)" The source for his 'fact' ? S710 13:16, 18 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Dude, no article in Wikipedia is so densely documented that every sentence is referenced. If you want to find out about what Moroccans think about El Glaoui, try Googling on "collabo" and "glaoui". And please don't add anything by Vyssotsky, his opinion is merely a POV occasioned by having lived in Morocco during part of the same period as El Glaoui, a review on Amazon.com is not an expert opinion or reference of any credbility. MisterCDE 02:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't pretend that Vyssotsky's opinion is the truth, but Wikipedia has a policy of letting different opinions be heard, even if they are biased. If Amazon considers him expert enough to write the review, he has credibility enough to cite his opinion. If you can give more background to his opinion please add it. A strong statement "universally reviled as a ‘collabo’" should have a source. If there so much material please cite one.S710 08:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thought about it. I agree with you. Vyssotsky's opinion on Glaoui's motives is pure speculation. Sounds rather like looking for an excuse. I deleted it.S710 09:56, 19 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks S710. Also I apologize for being a bit flamey and calling you "dude"! What I will do is put some stuff in (may be over next couple of days) about the Glaoui's motives as seen by his son Abdessadeq, who was in a unique position to know (although disagreeing with them) and to appreciate them from a cultural standpoint which Western historians might have missed. I do this because Abdessadeq's biography of his father is not widely available to English-speaking readers, so it should hold some interest. MisterCDE 03:43, 20 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Decided to put in a major rewrite of this article. Hopefully it is not too long now and meets with general approval. MisterCDE 04:14, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

el-Madani

It seems like a large portion of the introduction is talking about Thami's elder brother Si el-Madani. Perhaps this page should be split into an entry for el-Madani.