Talk:The Gambia

What next for capital "T" in The Gambia?

I'm starting a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#What next for The Gambia? about how to followup on the RfC which changed Wikipedia style to use a capital "T" for The Gambia mid-sentence and mid-article title. Please participate in the discussion there. Thank you,  SchreiberBike | ⌨  04:01, 22 February 2023 (UTC)

That discussion can now be found at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 227#What next for The Gambia?. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 19:33, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

The RfC was later changed to "no consensus". The discussion referenced above is now archived as described above. I should have noted that change here when the closure was changed; my apologies for any confusion. SchreiberBike | ⌨  00:48, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Ngram

FWIW, I was dorking around with learning some of the operators in google Ngrams and got this result, which, if I'm doing it right, seems to indicate:

• Instances of the occurrence of the term "Gambia" in the phrases "Gambia River" or "River Gambia" are practically negligible for our purposes here (that is, people writing "Gambia" were seldom doing so to refer to the river. This seems odd to me but if I'm reading it right, it's true.)

• When the Term "Gambia" was used, about half the time it is part of the phrase "T/the Gambia", and about half just "Gambia" not preceded by "T/the".

• I would think that when the phrase "T/the Gambia" and the term "Gambia" without the article (and the river is not being referred to), it would mostly be referring to the name of the country or something deriving from the name of the country (e.g. "T/the Gambia International Airport" / "Gambia International Airport" and so forth.

• When "Gambia Iron Company" and "Gambia Airport" etc are used, this supports "Gambia" as the name of country, while "T/the Gambia Iron Company" and "T/he Gambia Airport" supports "T/the Gambia" as the name of the country.

Sure Ngram is a somewhat blunt instrument. "...then take a left at the Gambia Iron Company building..." and "In The Gambia, you will find Gambia Linen, Gambia Coconuts, and Gambia Poptarts" will give false results. But I'm going to guess that these aren't a big part of the results (particularly the latter example, where the adjectival form would be used mostly ("In the Gambia, you will find Gambian linen..."), and in addition that these instances would probably cancel each other to some degree. Blunt instrument, but I'm going to assume plenty sharp enough for our purposes

So, the result gives about 50% "T/the Gambia" as the name of the country, and about 50% just "Gambia" as the name of the country. (Actually more like 60%+ for just "Gambia", but I'm being generous, considering all the false results we are probably getting.)

Not suggesting a name change for the article, good Lord no. Shoot me rather than going thru all that again. However, I do think this gives me sufficient support to make these additions (show in bold):

1) Top of the lede: "The Gambia, officially the Republic of The Gambia, sometimes shortened to just Gambia, is a country in West Africa."

2) In the Etymology section, start of second paragraph: "The Gambia is one of a small number of countries for which the definite article is commonly (although far from universally) used in its English-language name... (It is true that this is mentioned at the end of the section also, but it's worth also mentioning nearer the top, as it seems to be a noticed and even contested issue (if the Wikipedia is any indicator, which maybe).

And I have done so. Revert as you all wish, but for that I think the argument would have to be something along the lines of "The percentage of people who refer to T/the Gambia without using the definite article is so negligible that informing the reader that these people even exist is unwarranted or misleading" which I doubt that that can be demonstrated (willing to be proven wrong).

Also my wording may not be optimal, of course. Maybe "often shortened to just Gambia" or "commonly used in its English-language name, but not always... or whatever is better. Herostratus (talk) 17:18, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

 Those changes look helpful. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:53, 2 October 2023 (UTC)

Those who do not use the article "the" before Gambia do so because their language does not do it for any plural. The entry says the Bahamas and the Gambia are the only countries that start with "the". And that is not true since all plurals do start with "the", like the USA, the Ukraine, the Maldives, etc. The Bahamas are a plural chain of islands. The Gambia is the plural lands under the flowage of the Gambia River. Actually "the Gambia" is short for "the Gambia River Basin". You would not say, "I want to swim in Gambia River". You would say, "I want to swim in the Gambia River". The ethnic Polish in the west of the Ukraine do not put "the" in front of any plurals, so that is where the confusion comes from. 71.228.106.51 (talk) 15:00, 12 November 2024 (UTC)

Etymology

Gambia is combination of Gamb and -ia. -ia is a universal feminine suffix for the name of countries . Gamb in the local language means "Home". it is a universal word. in russian it is dom ,in persian khone; in pashtoon ton ; in Nahuatl from mexico it is kal; and so many other. This is not a quote . Many thanks .Amir Arab 194.86.153.167 (talk) 09:03, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

If you've got a reliable source for "Gamb in the local language means 'Home'", we could add that to the article. SchreiberBike | ⌨  12:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Countries Starting with "the"

The entry says the Bahamas and the Gambia are the only countries that start with "the". And that is not true since all plurals do start with "the", like the USA, the Ukraine, the Maldives, etc. The Bahamas are a plural chain of islands. The Gambia is the plural lands under the flowage of the Gambia River. Actually "the Gambia" is short for "the Gambia River Basin". You would not say, "I want to swim in Gambia River". You would say, "I want to swim in the Gambia River". 71.228.106.51 (talk) 14:55, 12 November 2024 (UTC)