Talk:Trap (2015 film)

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Requested move 25 May 2015[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Both sides making reasonable arguments when it comes to the naming criteria and the votes are roughly split. Possibly needs a wider-scale RfC to resolve this. Jenks24 (talk) 16:56, 18 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Trap (2015 film) → Taklub
Service (film) → Serbis
This Is My Country (film) → Bayan ko: Kapit sa patalim
Because of a Flower → Dahil sa Isang Bulaklak
Child of Sorrow (film) → Anak Dalita
Of the Flesh → Karnal
In the Bosom of the Enemy → Gatas... sa dibdib ng kaaway
Small Voices → Mga Munting Tinig
The Blossoming of Maximo Oliveros → Ang Pagdadalaga ni Maximo Oliveros
The Woman in the Septic Tank → Ang Babae sa Septic Tank
The Claws of Light → Maynila, sa mga Kuko ng Liwanag
Blessings of the Land → Biyaya ng Lupa
The Blood Trail → Mangatyanan
To Live for the Masses → Ang Mabuhay para sa Masa
The Bet Collector → Kubrador
The Man in the Lighthouse → Ang Lalake sa Parola

– Films from the Philippines are commonly left untranslated since users of Philippine English use the Tagalog title. For example http://www.rappler.com/entertainment/news/91670-taklub-ecumenical-jury-prize-special-mention-cannes-festival-2015 It is also much easier to use the original title since there are less pages to disambiguate and more pages with unique/rare names. This is also inconsistent with some other titles such as Ganito Kami Noon, Paano Kayo Ngayon, Anak, Himala, and Masahista which use the Philippine name. Also the Category:Tagalog-language films have more films titled in the Filipino/Tagalog language than in English Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 06:33, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per WP:NCF and WP:UE. In the Bosom of the Enemy is a classic per the rationale section of WP:NCF, making it easier to find instead of searching for Gatas... sa dibdib ng kaaway (compare "The Seventh Seal" rather than "Det sjunde inseglet"). Note that some of these were moved after the discussion was started, so I've moved them back. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 08:41, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I'm not very well-informed about Filipino films, as I've only seen a few. However, English-language reliable sources do sometimes seem to leave the titles untranslated. Here's what I found:
- Service (film): NYT, Roger Ebert, THR all call it Serbis.
- Trap (2015 film): Screen Daily, THR, and Variety call it Taklub.
- The Claws of Light: translated by NYT, Village Voice, Time Out, PhilStar, and others.
- Small Voices: translated by Variety, NYT, LAT. PhilStar seems mostly ambivalent.
- The Bet Collector: translated by Variety. PhilStar seems to prefer Kubrador.
- In the Bosom of the Enemy: translated by Variety, OC Weekly. PhilStar seems to prefer the untranslated title.
- The Woman in the Septic Tank: Translated by Screen Daily, Variety, Hollywood Reporter, NYT
- Don't know about the others. I mostly checked Variety and The Hollywood Reporter, but I did quite a few open-ended Google searches. I didn't get a lot of English-language hits. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:35, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - For Philippine films, the local articles should take precedence over international ones since they have more notability in the local market than elsewehere. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 19:44, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per User:Lugnuts and WP:NCF. The local use argument doesn't apply for Indian English no reason why Tagalog should be different. In ictu oculi (talk) 23:55, 25 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Whatever they do in India has no relevance in this topic. There has been a long informal convention about Philippine films prior to 2010 in which they keep their original local titles. Philippine films have used the original local titles, whether in English or Tagalog. For example, Kasal, Kasali, Kasalo and Four Sisters and a Wedding. There is a subtle distinction why a particular language is usdd as a title. It should be no different here. Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 00:14, 26 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose generally. This is the wrong approach. Work it into naming conventions if it has to apply to all Tagalog films, or make individual requests if it can be demonstrated that a translated title doesn't fit our naming conventions. --BDD (talk) 18:58, 1 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Support all as per the badly titled WP:UE: "The choice between anglicized and local spellings should follow English-language usage". Most WP:RS in the Philippines are in English. These English language RSes refer to these films on their local titles (which could be English, Tagalog or whatever language) whenever they are discussed. Unless it could be proved that a certain film has more English sources from outside the Philippines, it should be located on its local name. This is what is being done on Philippine TV shows, books and music albums. –H T D 03:34, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose per WP:NCF and WP:UE, as well as per NinjaRobotPirate's evidence of English titles being used in reliable English sources. Cavarrone 11:25, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

- Comment -WP:UE clearly states a local variety of English can be used. Isn't Philippine English a local variety? Shhhhwwww!! (talk) 08:16, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Told ya WP:UE is so horribly mistitled. –H T D 11:11, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  - Also, the non-English titles used by reliable Philippine sources in English which are more plentiful aren't even "Philippine English". They're Tagalog. This vote by somebody (LOL it's unsigned) is so wrong in so many levels. In fact, the oppose votes are very much clueless and should have been dismissed. –H T D 11:14, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Personal attacks will get you blocked. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 11:21, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I believe going through the usual bureaucratic processes is the correct way in dealing with the truth rather than empty threats. –H T D 22:20, 11 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I believe using the policy to back-up far from empty threats. Lugnuts ^{Dick Laurent is dead} 07:01, 12 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.