Talk:Tropical Storm Conson

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Tropical Storm Conson article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Weather: Tropical / Western Pacific Low‑importance

	Weather portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Weather, which collaborates on weather and related subjects on Wikipedia. To participate, help improve this article or visit the project page for details. Articles Requested Project Resources Become a Member Project Talk Assessment A-Class Alerts WeatherWikipedia:WikiProject WeatherTemplate:WikiProject WeatherWeather
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
	Tropical cyclones portal This article is supported by WikiProject Tropical cyclones (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article is supported by the Pacific typhoon work group (assessed as Low-importance).

Tambayan Philippines Low‑importance

	Philippines portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tambayan Philippines, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics related to the Philippines on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Tambayan PhilippinesWikipedia:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesTemplate:WikiProject Tambayan PhilippinesPhilippine-related
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Disaster management Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Disaster management, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Disaster management on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Disaster managementWikipedia:WikiProject Disaster managementTemplate:WikiProject Disaster managementDisaster management
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Vietnam Low‑importance

	Vietnam portal This article is part of WikiProject Vietnam, an attempt to create a comprehensive, neutral, and accurate representation of Vietnam on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.VietnamWikipedia:WikiProject VietnamTemplate:WikiProject VietnamVietnam
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

It is requested that an image or photograph of Tropical Storm Conson be included in this article to improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific media request template where possible.
Wikipedians in the Philippines may be able to help!
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites.

Upload

Text and/or other creative content from 2021 Pacific typhoon season was copied or moved into Tropical Storm Conson (2021). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Move Page

Can the Year be deleted? because I think it's disastrous and his property damage reached 1billion and I think it will retire. Daniel boxs (talk) 05:32, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Daniel boxs: WP:CRYSTAL 🐔dat (talk) 11:26, 10 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Can the year be deleted now? because one of their names is Retired and I think this is the worst damage for the year 2021 pacific typhoon season. Daniel boxs (talk) 05:00, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move the Page now! Daniel boxs (talk) 05:01, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Daniel boxs: Your controversial move has been reverted. Do not move the page back without consensus. Chlod (say hi!) 21:14, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 8 September 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. I see consensus as having emerged that this storm is the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for the title "Tropical Storm Conson" specifically. Participants identified that higher-intensity storms like typhoons are not generally considered to contest for the primary title of "Tropical Storm Foo". One participant did raise a concern that Tropical Storm Conson (2016) prevented this article from attaining primary status, but that argument did not appear to hold a great amount of weight with other editors, who argued that the 2016 storm's lack of a standalone article was indicative of its lesser degree of notability. It was also noted that the proposed move would be WP:CONSISTENT with the titling of other tropical cyclones with retired names. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 20:51, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Tropical Storm Conson (2021) → Tropical Storm Conson – Can this page be moved to just Tropical Storm Conson? As Daniel boxs stated above, the name was retired after the 2021 Pacific typhoon season. While there was a more notable iteration of Conson last 2010, it was a typhoon. This is the only page that is named "Tropical Storm Conson"— the 2004 and 2010 iterations were typhoons, and the 2016 iteration redirects you to the 2016 typhoon page, so it's a little distinctive compared to the previous Conson iterations. Bugnawfang (talk) 08:28, 8 September 2024 (UTC) Bugnawfang (talk) 08:32, 8 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Bobby Cohn (talk) 12:27, 15 September 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. asilvering (talk) 00:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose: It seems like some of the disambiguation pages for Conson would be requested to remove as "(2021)" per Daniel boxs stated? So, the answer is not recommended to move as primary topic. Unlike those names were retired, this would be retained as disambiguation parentheses and should not be used as primary topic (i.e. Typhoon Haikui (2023), Tropical Storm Kompasu (2021) & Typhoon Vongfong (2020)); unless, there is one or main topic can differentiate the storms without any disambiguation (i.e. Tropical Storm Megi). Icarus58 (talk) 00:16, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. You can say the same thing for Tropical Storm Ma-on, which doesn't have the "(2022)" even though it only caused seven deaths and ~$40 million worth of damage. Also, the disambig page for Conson's other incarnations will still be "List of storms named Conson."

For Haikui 2023 and Vongfong 2020's cases, their earlier incarnations were clearly worse than the names where they're officially delisted, so they were the exceptions. What I also meant by "this is the only page named 'Tropical Storm Conson'", I meant that this is the only "Tropical Storm Conson" that has a dedicated wiki page to it. The 2016 incarnation was a redirect to 2016 Pacific typhoon season. Bugnawfang (talk) 11:23, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Bugnawfang, since only two tropical storms have named "Conson" that formed last 2016 and 2021 respectively. Hence, it is not advisable or recommended to move the page as main article for "Tropical Storm Conson". So, there is no consensus regarding to move as alternative redirect. Icarus58 (talk) 14:01, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What do you mean? Actually, you can say that thing to Tropical Storm Ma-on (2016) as well. Click the 2016 storm page, it's also another redirect to "2016 Pacific typhoon season". Yet "Tropical Storm Ma-on (2022)" redirects you to "Tropical Storm Ma-on" (no year indicator).

Unlike the other Conson tropical storm in 2016, this 2021 incarnation of TS Conson did some damage. It's more of the storm being a Wikipedia:PRIMARYRED because there are no other storms named "Tropical Storm Conson" that have a separate page that details its met. history, preparations, impact, etc.

Pardon me if my jargon is too complicated to understand. I want to be clear and concise that "Tropical Storm Conson (2021)" should be moved to "Tropical Storm Conson" because it's the only "Tropical Storm Conson" that has actual details and did some damage, hence it doesn't need a year indicator. The 2004 and 2010 usages were typhoons; if this 2021 storm was a typhoon (i.e. recognized by JMA as a typhoon), then the exceptions for Vongfong 2020, Saola 2023 and Haikui 2023 apply.

We're talking about technicalities here; I hope this clears out the confusion. P.S. Click the Tropical Storm Conson (2016) link, it redirects you to 2016 Pacific typhoon season. I hope you see my point as to why I wanted to remove the year indicator in this storm. Bugnawfang (talk) 14:32, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts @Daniel boxs? Bugnawfang (talk) 14:50, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Any thoughts about this move too @Vida0007? Bugnawfang (talk) 14:53, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The overall most notable incarnation of Conson is its 2010 one – I honestly was questioning why both Conson and Basyang were not retired by JMA and PAGASA respectively. However, in terms of Conson's iterations that reached (severe) tropical storm intensity, I think its 2021 usage was more notable than any versions of Conson that peaked below typhoon intensity (albeit both PAGASA and JTWC considered Conson 2021 as a typhoon).

Which brings me to this suggestion: sure, move this page to the Tropical Storm Conson namespace. But the article for Conson's 2010 iteration shall also be moved to Typhoon Conson. Vida0007 (talk) 15:03, 15 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe because how int'l names retired pre-2015 didn't include storms that had a major (i.e. really major) impact on the Philippines. These names mostly go unnoticed as they don't usually appear on PAGASA's weather bulletins, and also because maybe the PH delegate just didn't send a formal request to retire names [Fengshen, Nesat, to name a few]. But since 2015, where int'l storms now appear on PAGASA's bulletins, it's now a custom to decomission both names.

I guess I could agree to your statements, as it's different from the cases of Megi (2010 vs 2016) and very much like Nock-ten's cases. But I'm curious what stance you lean on to this. Bugnawfang (talk) 14:40, 16 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Just to be clear, I am leaning towards the Nock-ten 2011 and 2016 situation. Vida0007 (talk) 02:54, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thoughts? TLDR: Conson 2021 was a case of WP:PRIMARYRED. No other storms that have "TS Conson" has a page that details met. history, preparation, impacts, etc. There is a worse Conson in 2010, but it was a typhoon, so the Vongfong 2020 exception do not apply.

(Note: I'm very sorry for disturbing to those whom I pinged. However, I need to hear your thoughts about this since this is made on behalf of Daniel boxs' response to be moved above. You are not required to reply this immediately. Also please help me share this to other people whom I didn't mentioned so I can hear their thoughts out too.)

@Chlod@Icarus58 @Chicdat @Zzzs

@HurricaneEdgar Bugnawfang (talk) 08:57, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support Removing the year is custom for retired names - even if there is a more notable name at a higher intensity, for instance how Hurricane Alma was more damaging than the retired Tropical Storm Alma. 🐔 Chicdat ^{Bawk to me!} 10:24, 18 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Note: WikiProject Weather and WikiProject Tropical cyclones have been notified of this discussion. asilvering (talk) 00:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting comment: notified wikiprojects asilvering (talk) 00:25, 21 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.