Talk:Visa requirements for German citizens

On 30 January 2023, it was proposed that this article be moved from International travel requirements for German citizens to Visa requirements for German citizens. The result of the discussion was moved.

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[[Visa Waiver Program#ESTA|Visa Waiver Program]]
[[Visa Waiver Program#ESTA|ESTA]]

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Old discussions

Old discussions about this article (which was named Travel requirements for German citizens until 17 December 2022, International travel requirements for German citizens from 17 December 2022 and Visa requirements for German citizens from 17 February 2023) can be found at Talk:International travel requirements for German citizens (that talk page was left behind on one of these moves).

To do

Add/update references (in case of disagreement between sources, always prioritise first party sources, that is official information issued by the destination country. You may add alternative sources in the "Notes" column.)

Distinction between ETAs (Electronic Travel Authorisations) and eVisas

As defined by the Wordnik dictionary (https://www.wordnik.com/words/visa), a visa is "an official authorisation appended to a passport, permitting entry into and travel within a particular country or region". Therefore ETAs (Electronic Travel Authorisations) are de facto eVisas (electronic visas). This is why ETAs issued by Pakistan, Sri Lanka, South Korea, Australia (eVisitor), New Zealand (NZeTA) and the United States (ESTA) are classified as eVisas in this article. Please do not change that without further discussion. Thank you in advance for your understanding. Thearones (talk) 13:59, 1 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Further discussion is here. Thearones (talk) 09:13, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Travel requirements for German citizens

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Travel requirements for German citizens's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "WHO country list":

From Yellow fever vaccine: "Countries with risk of yellow fever transmission and countries requiring yellow fever vaccination (July 2019)". World Health Organization. United Nations. 4 July 2019. Retrieved 29 November 2020.
From Polio vaccine: "Countries with risk of yellow fever transmission and countries requiring yellow fever vaccination (July 2019)". World Health Organization. United Nations. 4 July 2019. Retrieved 2 December 2020.
From Vaccination requirements for international travel: "Countries with risk of yellow fever transmission and countries requiring yellow fever vaccination (July 2019)". World Health Organization. United Nations. 4 July 2019. Retrieved 3 December 2020.
From International Certificate of Vaccination or Prophylaxis: "Countries with risk of yellow fever transmission and countries requiring yellow fever vaccination (July 2019)". World Health Organisation. United Nations. 4 July 2019. Retrieved 29 November 2020.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 17:54, 23 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 30 January 2023

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (non-admin closure) BilledMammal (talk) 14:14, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

– Consistency with all other similar pages: Category:Visa requirements by nationality a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 16:42, 30 January 2023 (UTC) This is a contested technical request (permalink). a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 20:37, 30 January 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 22:09, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Either we rename this page (and the French and Polish entries fwiw) or we rename all the others (as they also contain visa and non-visa restrictions). a455bcd9 (Antoine) (talk) 20:37, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Wikiproject politics has been notified of the discussion. Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 22:09, 7 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Support the two nominated moves as well as the Polish one for procedural reasons (all three were originally at "Visa requirements for..." but have been subject to recent undiscussed moves or cut-and-paste moves) and on the merits. One of the undiscussed moves was justified with "the article now includes more information about non-visa travel restrictions and information". While this is true, such new off-topic content should be put in another (new?) article or an expansion of the scope of these articles should be discussed. (To the closer: if this move is approved please try to do some HISTMERGE magic to preserve the extensive edit history of the old Visa requirements for German citizens article.) — AjaxSmack 06:48, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 2 March 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Various participants raised different questions about what title would most WP:PRECISEly indicate the article scope. Some participants suggested that "visa" was the best title as a WP:CONCISE way of indicating that only international travel was in scope; others argued that "visa" omitted non-visa-related requirements such as vaccination and health matters. The precision-based arguments seem to slightly lean in favor of retaining the current title, but narrowly enough that I'm not convinced that'd be a consensus in its own right; however, it was also noted that the "Visa requirements..." title is WP:CONSISTENT with nearly all other articles in Category:Visa requirements by nationality, which pushes me over the line into finding a consensus to retain the existing title. (closed by non-admin page mover) ModernDayTrilobite (talk • contribs) 16:29, 3 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

– The articles now include non-visa travel requirements like vaccination requirements, passport requirements and entry bans as well as biometrics. Thearones (talk) 09:49, 2 March 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. Natg 19 (talk) 17:16, 27 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Reason is that Visa requirements for Polish citizens has already been moved to Travel requirements for Polish citizens and that Travel requirements for German citizens and Travel requirements for French citizens is more compact than International travel requirements for German citizens and International travel requirements for French citizens and better reflects the content of the articles than Visa requirements for German citizens and Visa requirements for French citizens. Thearones (talk) 09:49, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Unconvinced. The wording visa requirements has an unambiguous meaning – visas may (or may not) be required. However, travel is never required, so travel requirements sounds a bit weird. British government uses more careful wording on gov.uk: travel advice → entry requirements[1], and I suggest we try to identify more apt wording, too.

Additionally, the word citizens in the title may be misleading – the article tries to combine two somewhat separate topics: visa requirements for German citizens, and entry requirements for German residents or those arriving from Germany. I'm not convinced these separate topics should be dealt with in a single article or that the term "citizen" should be used as a placeholder for both. — kashmīrī ^TALK 11:16, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dear kashmīrī,
You're right. Health administrative entry restrictions, i.e. vaccination requirements, (mostly) depend on the jurisdiction one is arriving from, not the state they are a citizen of.
Thanks for your precious insight,
Thearones (talk) 11:32, 2 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

And there is already an article about vaccination requirements for international travel.
So, it seems that the consensus currently is not to rename the articles and it most likely makes sense to keep them consistent with all other "Visa requirements for ... citizens" articles. I will request moving the Travel requirements for Polish citizens to Visa requirements for Polish citizens for that same reason. Thearones (talk) 19:17, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update: I requested the move and it has been contested by Amakuru (talk). So, I'm waiting for him to contribute to this discussion. Thearones (talk) 21:33, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support move. I opposed the move of the Poland page, and would support this one for the exact same reason. Thanks for the note on my talk page. It's quite simple really, the page covers more than just visas, it has vaccination and health issues for German and French people travelling abroad too, so travel constitutes a more WP:PRECISE and accurate title for this than visa. Cheers — Amakuru (talk) 21:57, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. "Travel" includes not only existing the home country and entering a foreign country, but also domestic moving within the country. "Travel requirements" implicitly suggest that German citizens may need to go through application process to move around within the country and leave the country. However, this article mainly discusses the requirements for German citizens to enter other foreign countries and territories. I do not think it is a good practice to make the move. Cfls (talk) 01:35, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose. "Visa" makes clear that the page is about international travel requirements and not travel requirements within country: the suggested target is less clear in this respect than the current title so there is no gain in precision. Article titles should be concise: a target such as "International travel requirements.." would be unnecessarily long. Article titles should be consistent: the Polish article was moved without any discussion, and otherwise the titling of this sequence of articles is entirely consistent. Celia Homeford (talk) 13:15, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Lau Province (Fiji)

It should be noted that the “special permission” only applies to travellers with their own yacht.

In addition, question for whoever maintains these visa requirement pages: The idea of a hyperlinking is to cross-reference things easily. Now all of these pages contain redundant information about non-visa restrictions apply (e.g. vaccinations) to every traveller. Why not simply put hem in a singöle separate article and LINK TO THAT ??? Easier to maintain safes a lot of time. --Zenwort (talk) 17:18, 3 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]