Talk:Wendy Whiteley

Date of birth

There have been 3 major biographies of Brett Whiteley to my knowledge, and Wendy Whiteley's birth date may be revealed there for all I know:

• Frannie Hopkirk - A portrait of Brett Whiteley by his sister (1996)
• Margot Hilton and Graeme Blundell - Brett Whiteley: An unauthorised life (1997) - this one is not currently mentioned in the references in Brett's article
• Sandra McGrath - Brett Whiteley (1979)

However, I don't have access to any of these books. But I have gleaned some information from other sources:

• In the Fairfax Good Weekend article "The constant gardener", published 14 October 2006, she was described as "now 65". The interviews would have been conducted some time, perhaps as much as 2 months, but maybe as little as a week, before the publication. So maybe it's safe to say she was born some time between mid-August 1940 and mid-October 1941.

• In her ABC "Australian Story" program, she said "I met Brett when I was still 15, nearly 16." This was at the National Art School, East Sydney, which he attended from 1956-59. We know Brett was 17 when they met, and we know he was born 7 April 1939. He turned 17 on 7 April 1956. So they met some time between 7 April 1956 and 6 April 1957. For her to have been 15 at any time in this period means she was born some time between 7 April 1941 and 6 April 1942.

The only period that matches both these bits of evidence is 7 April - mid-October 1941. So, if the evidence is trustworthy, we can be safe in saying she was born in 1941, which is better than the "c. 1940" we have at the moment.

This also means that when they met, it was 1957, not 1956. She turned 16 some time between April and October 1957, and if she was "almost 16" when they met, this would have placed their meeting between, say, February and early October 1957 (assuming a period of up to 2 months falls under "almost"). But, by 7 April 1957, Brett had turned 18, so they must have met between February and 6 April 1957. It's highly likely in any event that 2 students at the same school who'd never met would cross paths earlier rather than later in the academic year, which starts around early February, particularly if they were in the same life drawing class. This says Wendy's birthday was between early December to end-March/early April.

But it can't have been any earlier than 7 April (see para above), so this now seems contradictory. Not sure where this is leading now. Is my logic irrefutable? And are any of the above deductions able to be put into a footnote, or should we wait for some good soul to come along with all the accurate information? -- JackofOz (talk) 01:09, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

How do you know he was 17 at the time they met? The reason this is important is because depending on the context, I would be careful by the assumption they met between "7 April 1956 and 6 April 1957". It's not uncommon someone will be called an age even if they will be that age that year, even if they have not actually had their birthdate yet. The quote "I met Brett when I was still 15, nearly 16." suggests to me she was really 15 but for example, if a biography says "When he was 17, Brett Whiteley met his future wife" I would be careful about assuming he was definitely 17 Nil Einne (talk)

I would also think it worth considering what is meant by "met" and whether your assumption about when this "meeting" must have taken place is accurate. It wouldn't surprise me that two people in the same class (even more so when they are of the opposite sex and in that era) would be aware of each other so have technically met, but perhaps never interacted or at least got to know each other. I would say it's easily possible "they met when she was X" is a simplification of "well I had seem him around but had never talked to him before (or had only pass the odd greeting and brief small talk) but one day we really got talking (for whatever reason), clicked and became close friends soon after that". Obviously, if met means the later, then while it's slightly probably slightly more likely it happened earlier in the year, it's still quite likely it was later. Obviously it depends on the context of the "we met" bit. For example, if it's "we met when I was X and it was love at first sight" then yes, this suggests the didn't notice each other at all before that. Nil Einne (talk) 11:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

OK, thanks for those thoughts, Nil Einne. I should clarify that I've laid my hands on the Sandra McGrath biography, and discovered they weren't at the same art school. Wendy was at the National Art School and Brett was attending life drawing classes at the Julian Ashton Art School. They met at Jerichos coffee shop, a noted Sydney bohemian haunt; he then took her along to his life drawing classes. The only 2 clear references I've seen to Brett's age at the time they met are in "The constant gardener" and the Sandra McGrath biography. They both say 17.

• McGrath talks about Wendy seeing Brett off on the boat to Italy, and then says: "Wendy and Brett met three years earlier before at Jerichos .... Wendy, then only 15 and an art student was .... Whiteley was 17 and had just started working at the Lintas Agency". He was awarded the Italian scholarship in November 1959. I don't know exactly when he left, but it would have been shortly afterwards as he arrived in Naples on 25 February 1960 aboard the Fairstar.
• "The constant gardener" says: "Wendy Julius was a 15-year old art student .... when she met Brett Whiteley, 17, a very ambitious, wily, talented young artist". But it also says: "When Wendy was 19, she and Brett headed to Italy". It's not totally inaccurate - they did both head overseas - but they did so separately, about 6 months apart, and they reunited in Paris on 14 June 1960 before going to Florence. She had to work 18 hours a day to get the money for the trip, so it would have been a few months at least before she could afford to go. Sailing was the norm for Australian travellers back then, but given the time frame, I can only assume she flew rather than sailed. It reads as if they went off together, on the same voyage, so it's misleading, which casts a shadow of doubt about the reliability of the rest of the details in that article.
• So it seems she left Australia around May-June 1960. If she was 19 at that time, that's still consistent with being born in 1941, although it could also mean she was born in the latter half of 1940.
• Other sources I've seen say that Brett met Wendy some time in the period 1956-59. Being 17 is consistent with this.

I can see I really need to access the other biographies to get a better handle on this, and that's in the offing as we speak. Thanks again. -- JackofOz (talk) 21:31, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

I'm trying to add a link to an Australian Story program on Wendy that just aired. It's asking for a CAPTCHA, but it's not giving me anything to CAPTCHA. Just a tiny picture icon with nothing to read/interpret. I have adblock and ghostery turned off, so that's not the reason. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.106.233.239 (talk) 11:41, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

Secret garden - land leased to council for 30 years

The NSW government - who owns the land on which Wendy's secret garden lies - has leased the land to the North Sydney Council on a 30-year renewable lease.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-09/wendy-whiteley-garden-leased-to-local-concil-30-years/6841998
165.225.98.91 (talk) 05:07, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

 Done [1] Mitch Ames (talk) 09:07, 9 October 2015 (UTC)