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Talk:William Adelin

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Aetheling

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Wouldn't "Aetheling" actually be either "Son of a Noble" or "Little Noble"? Ameise -- chat 09:27, 25 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's instructive to use the Google nGram viewer to see what the normal version of Ætheling has been over the last 200 years. There's no doubt that the original chroniclers used ætheling. They are beyond the reach of Google books. Between 1870 and 1980, Adelin barely gets a look in. Prior to that Atheling and Adelin were used fairly commonly, but with either Atheling or Ætheling much more frequently chosen. Adelin has taken off only in the last 20 years or so.
Personally I don't like it, as the use of William Adelin makes it look as if William had a surname, and these were pretty well unknown in the 12th century. Ætheling is a title. In A L Poole's volume of the Oxford History of England, Domesday Book to Magna Carta, Poole uses only William the ætheling, with a lower case initial. That's because it's more correctly an Anglo-Saxon title, meaning prince or lord. It was the usual way to describe the king's heir, in the way we'd nowadays say William the crown prince, or Charles the Prince of Wales.
The other reason I am unhappy is that the "d" in Adelin represents the Anglo-Saxon letter "eth": the original sources would have had the name as æðeling. Or perhaps æðelin. This confusion was probably what made the older sources plump for Adelin, not having an eth in the font that was used to print the early 19th century books. Thomas Peardew (talk) 08:57, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I may well be barking up two different wrong trees.
Firstly, the letter isn't an "eth", it's a "thorn": "Þ". Secondly, the article on Ætheling says that post-Conquest Latin manuscripts used "Adelinus", for which "Adelin" would be a good substitute in modern times. Though - trying to preserve some credibility - it might be better to go with "William the Adelin". Thomas Peardew (talk) 14:38, 28 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recent move

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I am not definitely against this recent move, but it is potentiall controversial and it seems to have been taken without discussion. Why? PatGallacher (talk) 13:59, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've never before seen him called Adelin rather than A[e]theling. —Tamfang (talk) 08:33, 2 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I am still wondering about this. Why would an English Prince of French and Scottish blood have his article titled with a Germanic word? I cannot imagine that anyone would search for this person under "William Adelin," nor can I find any contemporary or historic references to him under this name. But maybe I am just uninformed and someone can point me to them. IMO this article should be moved back to William Aetheling. Can we have discussion on this? History Lunatic (talk) 21:03, 7 December 2018 (UTC)History Lunatic[reply]

Illegitimate children cannot succeed

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Henry had an "abundance of ...illegitimate children, .... but for various reasons none were chosen". Of course not. Illegitimate children cannot succeed.203.80.61.102 (talk) 21:20, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

William the Conqueror was the illegitimate son of Robert I, Duke of Normandy, but he was able to succeed his father. Dimadick (talk) 10:33, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, they put up with all those meddlesome priests, so they could work miracles when matters of state so required.
--JerzyA (talk) 06:56, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Marriage

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There is no mention of marriage, and only a passing reference to a wife. This should be rectified.203.80.61.102 (talk) 21:21, 1 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ancestry

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I suggest this variant ancestry of him:

Sources:

  • Bernard Burke, Ashworth P. Burke. A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage. 1934
  • Marjorie Chibnall (1991), The Empress Matilda: Queen Consort, Queen Mother and Lady of the English, London, UK: Basil Blackwell ISBN 9780631157373
  • Oram, Richard; David: The King Who Made Scotland, (Gloucestershire, 2004).
  • Frederick Lewis Weis, Walter Lee Sheppard, William Ryland Beall, Kaleen E. Beall. Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700: Lineages from Alfred the Great, Charlemagne, Malcolm of Scotland, Robert the Strong, and Other Historical Individuals 2008. ISBN 0806317523, ISBN 9780806317526

References

  1. ^ a b c d e f g h A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage and Companionage, pp 26, 32 Cite error: The named reference "<ref" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  2. ^ a b c d e f g h Chibnall 1991, p. ix
  3. ^ a b c d e f g h i j Oram, David, p. 10 Cite error: The named reference "<ref2" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  4. ^ Frederick Lewis Weis, Walter Lee Sheppard, William Ryland Beall, Kaleen E. Beall, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 2, 62, 118, 123, 157, 161–162
  5. ^ a b c d e f g h Frederick Lewis Weis, Walter Lee Sheppard, William Ryland Beall, Kaleen E. Beall, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 118, 123 Cite error: The named reference "<ref4" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  6. ^ a b c d e f g Frederick Lewis Weis, Walter Lee Sheppard, William Ryland Beall, Kaleen E. Beall, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 2, 162 Cite error: The named reference "<ref5" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  7. ^ a b c d e f Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 156–157 Cite error: The named reference "<ref6" was defined multiple times with different content (see the help page).
  8. ^ a b Frederick Lewis Weis, Walter Lee Sheppard, William Ryland Beall, Kaleen E. Beall, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 2
  9. ^ a b c Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 118
  10. ^ a b Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, p. 156
  11. ^ a b Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists who Came to America Before 1700, pp 62, 105, 109, 142
  12. ^ a b A Genealogical and Heraldic History of the Peerage and Baronetage, the Privy Council, Knightage, and Companionage, p. 47

Dmitry Azikov (talk) 10:57, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The important bits of the ancestry are already in the article - who his father was. The rest of it isn't useful to understanding the life of William Adelin. Again - I point to WP:NOTGENEALOGY. We are not a genealogical work and should not present such information when biographies of the subject do not do so. And again, many of these works are not very reliable - Weis and Burke are not good sources for this information. Ealdgyth (talk) 12:12, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So I don't plan now to add it to article, it is my an alternative variant which can be seen here in talk page, yes I can also take a good source from there Dmitry Azikov (talk) 14:03, 3 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This is not appropriate for a talk page. Talk pages are for discussing improvements to the article, and should not be used as alternative content sinks. Celia Homeford (talk) 09:31, 30 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, I think I can add any alternative content on my own talk page, add as many generations of ancestors of rulers as I can :) Dmitry Azikov (talk) 16:13, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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