Talk:Yakov Dzhugashvili

Yakov Dzhugashvili has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
October 13, 2019	Good article nominee	Listed

Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on April 14, 2021, April 14, 2023, and April 14, 2024.

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Who? What?

Second sentence, second paragraph in Marriages and Family section, "She [Ketevan Orakhelashvili] instead married Evgeni Mikeladze, a prominent orchestra conductor, earning ridicule from Stalin." Who earned Stalin's ridicule? Ketevan, Evgeni, or Yakov? Is this a poorly worded statement, or was it in fact Ketevan who earned his ridicule? Fiona Marissa 23:10, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

In "Capture" section, what is the author of the following sentence attempting to say? "Other sources, including Soviet prisoners interrogated, claimed that they willingly gave up Dzhugashvili as they hated the Soviet system." That the Soviet prisoners gave up Dzhugashvili "as they hated the Soviet system" doesn't make much sense unless the Soviet prisoners (prisoners of the Nazis?) identified who Dzhugashvili was. Anyone able to make better sense of this? Fiona Marissa 23:10, 24 October 2021 (UTC)

Gunina jewish?

Is there any evidence that Zoya Gunina was jewish? All evidence seems to point to the contrary: see for example http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/archive-files-suggest-son-of-stalin-surrendered-to-invading-germans-a-883119.html in particular : "When he finished high school in 1925, he moved in with Zoya Gunina, a 16-year-old classmate and daughter of an Orthodox priest." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.76.0.128 (talk) 15:43, 28 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Old talk

Is it Yakov's daughter or Yevgeni's daughter?

Czar 02:26, 1 February 2007 (UTC) Why the hell is the Unbearable Lightness of Being being cited? It's quite a shitty work of fiction the purpose of which is to insult Russian communism. Not an objective source for this matter. This is, of course, without mentioning that Milan Kundera isn't any sort of historian.[reply]

Where did this comment come from?

The factual "I never trade a General for a soldier" like comment is a given.

But where did the "I don't have a son" comment come from? Is it just propganda against Stalin or was it a line used in a film that became tangled with reality? May explain why this statement is most used in the U.S., Canada, etc.

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.117.158.83 (talk) 04:20, 10 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I dont have the time to dig it up at the moment but theres a BBC article out there recently released docs...about how Stalin actually constantly worried about his son and authorized about 3 attempts to rescue him. Would show he actually cared and worried about him and not the hard line stance "son for general" thing. If I have time later on I will dig it up and edit it in. But if someone else can that would be great.

Stalin never denied his son when the Germans took him prisoner. His response was that they not only had his son Yakov, but millions of his sons, and that they should release them all, or none. He refused to exchange his son because he could not, as leader of the USSR, be seen as asking his people to sacrifice their sons if he wasn't willing as well. He didn't learn of Yakov's death until the war had ended, and grieved for his loss when he did. He was proud that his son never betrayed his country to the Nazis and died trying to escape from them. It's hard to defend Joseph Stalin, but his treatment of Yakov during the war was not uncaring or evil. Jsc1973 (talk) 13:51, 14 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Look at Stalin's "extraordinary" treatment of Vasily--promoted and bemedaled beyond sense. It is no stretch that he would have taken "extraordinary" measures to attempt to free Yakov, but a propaganda victory for Hitler was impossible. His "no step backwards" policy demanded the people fear him in every way, and refusing the exchange was a brilliant strategic move. Also, his NKVD agents literally teemed throughout Europe, and he was probably confident that a daring rescue was possible. Tell the people something on one hand, secretly try to free the boy on the other. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.62.237 (talk) 00:47, 2 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Massacre of Polish troops

The massacre, could it have been Katyn massacre? Διγουρεν_{Εμπρος!} 13:11, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That's what the "external" link says, but without any actual evidence. Seems to be based on hearsay and is very speculative. Some actual proof of this contention seems to be in order. Dr. Dan (talk) 17:35, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The Telegraph cites "Professor John Erickson, the world's leading authority on the Soviet-German War, (who)... published in the latest edition of the Soviet Military Journal.".radek (talk) 17:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oh! I had no idea that the "world's leading authority" on the Soviet-German War (published in the "latest edition" of the Soviet Military Journal), had determined that Stalin's son committed suicide as a result of the Katyn massacre. I suppose a citation from The Telegraph settles it. That would be the actual "proof" of this contention? That's not an opinion, right? Dr. Dan (talk) 03:34, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Dr Dan, I am glad that you find it amusing. Now, if you do not think that John Erickson, author of several notable books and publications, is not an authority on the war, please tell me who in your opinion is. Tymek (talk) 19:40, 29 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are correct that I'm amused. I would not disagree that JE is an authority, only the part that he's the "worlds leading authority" (doubt that he'd disagree with me) and that one should think that Yakov Dzhugashvili's death was a consequence of his shame over the Katyn massacre. Much too ambiguous information for an encyclopedia entry. Please re-read my entry above concerning the matter. Dr. Dan (talk) 04:14, 30 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Dr. Dan. "The report that he committed suicide suggests that he learned, from Nazi guards at the concentration camp, of a massacre of Polish troops by Russians, and was overcome by shame" should be deleted or cited. He was Georgian, why would he care about the Poles?

The words "fact" and "The Telegraph," often appear together, but they should not. It is a verified propaganda organ of capitalist voyageurs that would call the Queen a cat if it meant slamming socialism with the hope of a higher quarterly LSE volume. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.13.62.237 (talk) 00:42, 2 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Name moving

Yakov Dzhugashvili is not correct romanization of georgian. this is romanization of russian, but this person not was russian. He only few year live in russia. his knoweledge of russian language not was perfect. his children and grandchildren and grandgrand children now living in Georgia. I think correct name of article is Iakob Jug(h)ashvili. this is correct romanization for georgian.--Gaga.vaa (talk) 17:07, 8 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Yakov Dzhugashvili.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:53, 11 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Death

The section about his death starts with some historians' conflicting theories about whether he was shot or electrocuted. But later in that section it says the German records of his death say he was both electrocuted and shot, which would seem to settle it. So why do we need all this guesswork? I propose taking it out. Richard75 (talk) 20:31, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've reworded that section to update this. Kaiser matias (talk) 15:11, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]