Talk:Zhang Zhehan

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Incorrect information and defamation

This article on zhang zhehan contains incorrect information such as him acting as a character (wei ying).

In addition it goes into detail about a recent controversy surrounding him. This controversy is written without regard to being neutral.

Any attempts to correct the article remain unfruitful as it keeps reverting back to the misleading and false information Jassforuuuu (talk) 18:40, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

Chinese references

Many of the Chinese language references are now dead due to the subject being blacklisted so I have slowly begun to replace them with English language sources.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 11:04, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Thank you OnCamera for helping maintain this page! It's hard to talk through edits. But wanted to say thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bluebirdmuppet (talk • contribs) 16:15, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Secondary sources

The secondary sources cited to contain inflammatory language, are factually inaccurate, and assume facts not in evidence. In addition, it is unclear why you are referencing secondary sources rather than the primary. Please correct. KeepingTabs (talk) 23:50, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

Actually Wikipedia prefers reliable secondary sources as primary sources may not be independent sources. No comment of the reliability of China Times or Mirror Media except they seem to established news sites from Taiwan. I make no judgment for inclusion or not, whether these are inflammatory or not. I have no skin in this game.Evaders99 (talk) 00:13, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

The language that was added was to indicate what was posted on an instagram page. Rather than direct the user to that instagram page to see show what is posted there, the preference is to send users to a secondary source? Do I understand that this is the preferred method? I question the use of those secondary sources not because they are not established news sites, but because they are placing a potentially libelous reading on the content of that instagram page (both inflammatory and assuming facts not in evidence). Should I be going about this a different way? KeepingTabs (talk) 01:54, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

You can include both a secondary and primary link if you want both to be included, especially since it's about video messages he posted to his Instagram.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 02:46, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

NPOV - Libel - Quote

I attempted to make changes that removed the potentially libelous implications around a third party, which were reverted. The original source material did not name any names and the wikipedia edit, as previously written, treated as fact who was being accused and what they were being accused of without verification, which is critical in biographical material of living people. Secondary sources may theorize, but that should not be treated as fact. Given that this relates to living people, is contentious and libelous, it should be removed altogether per Wikipedia policy.

The segment on deepfakes could be removed altogether, but the OP believed it to be important, so I redrafted to make it neutral/NPOV, but it was reverted. The cited article was an opinion piece that was treated as fact. In reviewing the article, the motivations the author ascribes to those alleging a deepfake cannot be known since facts were not checked nor interviews conducted. As not NPOV, not factual, but opinion, this is a questionable source that should be removed. If it is deemed worthy of retaining, it should be edited to be neutral per Wikipedia policy.

The last posting was also written to imply that the quote was made on the instagram page in the letter. It was not. It was made in the interview with Mr. Li, as the article that was cited shows. I moved it to the appropriate area while preserving the original poster's words, but that change was reverted.

I am happy to work on acceptable edits with the other editors, as is the recommended policy of Wikipedia. KeepingTabs (talk) 07:06, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

It's not libel to write what's been reported by reliable sources including Zhang's instagram messages about his situation. It simply states that the two have not communicated and that they do NOT have any sort of romantic relationship that some fans seem to think is real. I would think it's a silly thing to report about on Wikipedia, but it seems this obsession by fans have cost him his career and are part of the reason why he's been cancelled in China. The way you are editing makes it seem like his verified account is somehow a deepfake and that's inappropriate to do on Wikipedia. I'm not sure why so many single purpose accounts come to edit this page but it sure seems to verify what Zhang himself claims of Internet Water Army and the Vox article of conspiracy theorists who want to make it seem like his Instagram posts are fake. There's wide reporting in the news of the Chinese authorities seeing an issue with fans becoming cult-like obsessive with celebrities (Zhang is included in that discussion) and all the behavior of the single-purpose accounts on Wikipedia are in tune with that kind of obsessive behavior that been written about in numerous articles about Zhang.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 09:41, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory edit warring

Zhang Zhehan's pages in both English and Chinese have seen an influx of attention due to a number of Twitter influencers requesting that users come and remove any information relating to Zhang's social media activities or the accusations he made against former co-worker Gong Jun. These users, who often use their accounts to post graphic, pornographic stories featuring Zhang and Gong, are proponents of a conspiracy theory that purports that actors Zhang and Gong are in a secret romantic relationship; in April of 2022, Zhang returned to his account on Instagram and posted a number of clarifications that he is not in a relationship with Gong, and in fact believes that Gong may have been directly involved in the libelous material spread in August 2021 about his alleged visit to the Yasukuni Shrine. (Subtitles of Zhang's video are available here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nCQF5x8jnM)

Since posting this clarification, online shippers who support his alleged romantic relationship with Gong have invented a bizarre constellation of conspiracy theories including but not limited to: Zhang's letter on Instagram was forged, and his thumb in said photograph was doctored in; his video on Instagram was created by Deepfake technology, and his voice was provided by a close friend who they allege betrayed Zhang for money; his Instagram account was stolen by his former music manager who used Zhang's stolen national ID to fraudulently verify the account; said music manager has been appropriating his name and image to fraudulently sell merchandise to Zhang's fanbase; a body double was hired to impersonate Zhang's mother at her own tea shop's events; they've even claimed his dog is fake.

These users have a long history of reporting supporters and alleged associates of Zhang to the Chinese government for alleged "anti-China activities", as well as stalking, harassing and doxing fans of Zhang who believe his recent social media activities are real.

Meanwhile, dozens of public figures in China have confirmed that Zhang's recent social media activities are real, and have been seen wearing apparel from Zhang's brand.

Because of the persistence of this group's efforts to spread disinformation about Zhang and whitewash any mentions of his accusations against Gong in this article, despite the plethora of secondary media sources reporting Zhang's claims, I think this page is a good candidate for restriction. Pertains2 (talk) 07:51, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

The referenced contents in the Instagram account never explicitly mention Gong Jun and the conclusions made in the edit are not objectively verifiable. To claim otherwise is conjecture. To include it in a Wikipedia article is potentially libellous and thus should be held to a higher standard as stated in the rules pertaining to Biographies of Living Persons. C-entwikieditor (talk) 09:36, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

I restored the text as written before about his Instagram post per MOS:ACCUSED and WP:CLAIM as words to avoid because it does not adhere to a WP:NPOV. I left out his name (Gong Jun) for now but that can be discussed further here.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 09:56, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

@C-entwikieditor: Vox is considered a reliable source per WP:RSPVOX. Refrain from WP:CENSORing the article due to your objection to the information. Because the article discusses the behavior of his fandom in general, and not Zhang Zhehan, it is not libelous to towards him. Discuss edits and objections here before further edit warring, as you've already been warned about that disruptive editing.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 10:33, 30 June 2022 (UTC)

Thanks @Oncamera, I think the article is in pretty decent shape now. I would like to argue for the inclusion of Gong Jun's name.

First of all, although Zhang avoids direct mention of Gong's name in his accusation, there is absolutely no reasonable doubt about to whom his accusations are directed. In Zhang's letter posted to Instagram on April 30, 2022, he wrote:

"我知道你们中间有一个群体一直喜欢本人和电视剧“山河令”的另一位主演,我相信这些喜欢是真诚的。为了不辜负这份喜爱，本人不得不陈述以下事实：

I know that, among you all, there is a group that has always liked myself and the other lead of the drama "Word of Honor." I believe that these feelings are sincere. In order to not disappoint this love, I must state the following facts:

一：我与这位前同事在结束电视剧的拍摄后除了工作时间的必要合作，私下并无交集；自2021年6月至今无任何联络。

1. This former colleague and I, after finishing the filming of the drama and other than necessary collaboration during filming, have had no interactions whatsoever in private; from June 2021 until now, there has been no contact whatsoever.

二： 自去年8月后，对方商务屡屡出现本人相关元素，我无法理解，当时也无力干预。至于这怪象背后是否还有深层事实，我相信时间会给于我们最后的答案，也相信各位的善意和判断力。

2. Ever since August last year, elements relating to me have often appeared in the other party's endorsements. I am unable to understand. At that time, I had no power to interfere. As for whether or not there are deeper truths behind these abnormalities, I believe that time will give us the final answer, and I believe in everyone's goodwill and judgment."

When specifying that the subject of his comments is Gong, Zhang uses the wording 另一主演 "the other lead", which itself grammatically suggests that Zhang is one of two leads of this series. You may reference the Chinese Wiki page for Word of Honor and confirm that Zhang and Gong are the only two names categorized as the 主演 of this drama series. There is no one else to whom this title could reasonably be assumed to refer.

这位前同事 "this former colleague" further suggests that the comments that follow refer to the former co-star previously described, who can be no one but Gong.

When Zhang speaks of "elements relating to me have often appeared in the other party's endorsements", Zhang is referring to several instances where Gong's social media presence and various advertisement campaigns have included "hints" towards a continued relationship with Zhang, including one incident where a GQ profile of Gong inexplicably included an image of Zhang as a child: you can see it at around 26:20 on this video here. This profile was released in September 2021, after Zhang was cancelled for the Yasukuni shrine controversy in August. Media sources reported the misuse of Zhang's child photos; this was not even the first time that one of Gong's promotions misappropriated an image of Zhang as a child.

There is no other person to whom this accusation regarding endorsement elements can be reasonably assumed to refer.

On May 4th, 2022, following rampant accusations that the Instagram letter was forged among the sector of his fanbase that supported the fictitious romantic relationship between him and Gong, Zhang posted a video to his Instagram featuring his full face and voice. In this video (subtitles available here and here so you can compare multiple translations), he was much more explicit about his accusations towards Gong, saying (emphasis mine):

"This reminds me of a story about a cooking pot a friend shared with me once. He said life is like a cooking pot. When you are at the bottom, you can't go anywhere except up. I had a sudden whim when I heard the story. So I added some spice to the plot: when you find yourself at the bottom of the pot and try to climb upward, somebody keeps pouring oil down on you, making you slip at every step you take. Making you miserable.

Thinking back now, who is the person that pushed me to the bottom of the pot, and kept pouring oil down nonstop? There is no need to say his name; everyone knows who that might be. Someone who used my childhood pictures in his variety show, just to promote bromance ship among the fans. You can imagine what kind of shock this has been to my beliefs system.

[...]

But never in a million years, it occurred to me that some people and some forces at play would go so far as to use the life of a young man, a family and even a community, sacrifice their dignity and even their very lives, as a bargaining chip.

They were willing to spend a huge amount of money to slander the political stance of a patriotic young man. They modify wiki entries, unleashed coordinated social media accounts, and used a vast number of hired online trolls to mislead official state media. And they recruited professional fans to promote made-up Male/Male ship to underage fan groups, so that they would spend money on their merchandise. The success of a TV show is not to blame. These people who went against their own conscience to make such sordid money are to blame.

[...]

Since somebody would fantasize BL ship whatever I wore, I figure I'd design my own clothes.

As long as people who like me continue to want to see and hear from me, we are on the same wavelength, we would resonate. I'd make my way to you without wavering.

As for those who still are unwilling to wake up [from the BL CP,] all I can say is our path has come to an end. My blessing to you in your lives, please give more love to your own parents, rather than indulge in the pleasure of chasing celebrities. You have the freedom to stay in your own fantasy. But please do not hurt my family and my friends.

Reality is not a dream. The hurt that is inflicted on us, we do feel the pain. As for those who only care about money and pursue profit using unethical ways, the karmic retribution against evildoing is tried-and-true."

As Zhang notes in the video, the target of his accusations is so obvious and clear that there is no need for him to say the person's name directly. Zhang explicitly references the incident in which Gong or Gong's team stole an image of Zhang as a child for use in a television program. There is no other person to whom this comment could refer. Zhang may be avoiding direct mention of Gong's name to protect himself from liability, but surely he understands that this level of specificity would likely still be deemed slander by a court of law were he not exceedingly confident in the claims he is making.

Moreover, Gong's name was directly printed in several secondary media sources as being the target of Zhang's accusations. You may use machine translation to confirm the inclusion of Gong's name in the Chinese language articles.

Lastly, the general public widely understands that Zhang's comments were in reference to Gong. When Gong posted a recipe to social media including an instruction to "pour oil" (下油), a post noting the connection to the metaphor used to describe Gong's actions as "pouring oil" (倒油) in Zhang's May 4th video achieved enormous viral spread on Chinese social media. The post achieved nearly a million likes and the topic "pour oil" (倒油, the wording used in Zhang's video) entered the hot search (下油 and 倒油 are synonymous). Recognition of Zhang's comments, and to whom they were directed, has clearly left the fandom sphere.

In conclusion, I think it is extremely clear to whom Zhang's comments refer; that these comments have been reported to be in reference to Gong widely in the media; and that there is broad public understanding that Zhang's comments refer to Gong. I believe these facts justify the explicit inclusion of Gong's name in the article. Pertains2 (talk) 02:11, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

@Pertains2: Thanks for that information. He doesn't directly state Gong Jun's name, but two newspaper sources do both report that it's him being implicated so I phrased it like so. I changed some sentences to clarify which statements came from his letter and which came from the follow-up video. Let me know if I made a mistake about which statements came from the video and which came from the letter, but I think I got it right.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 18:46, 1 July 2022 (UTC)

@Oncamera: Thank you for your efforts. As I'm obviously quite invested in this topic and bring my own biases to the table, I've refrained from directly inserting my own words into this article even when it was open to unrestricted edits. I appreciate your work as an impartial observer to build an objective accounting of these events.

I just have a few nitpicks about the wording:

"Zhang stated outside sources"

The use of "outside sources" is inaccurate. What he said was 一些人一些勢力 yi xie ren yi xie shili “some people and some forces”. The use of “outside” may constitute editorialization on the part of Wikipedia.

"While Zhang did not directly indicate which co-star by name, newspapers reported his posts implicated his co-star Gong Jun's marketing team as the ones capitalizing on the fandom shipping of the two while Zhang was cancelled."

I would change this wording to "implicated his co-star Gong Jun in capitalizing on fandom shipping". Neither Zhang's letter nor his video make mention of Gong's marketing team, and the cited article only mentions Gong specifically. Here are all the sections in the Mirror Media article referencing Gong in relation to the allegations, and my translations (words in brackets are my additions for clarity/flow):

[pull quote]

"《山河令》去年5月初感謝戲迷舉辦演唱會，張哲瀚與戲中搭檔龔俊在演唱會上互動親暱，讓戲迷嗨到尖叫

[BL Drama] "Word of Honor" held a concert in May of last year to thank fans of the series. Zhang Zhehan and his partner in the drama, Gong Jun, interacted intimately during the concert, making fans shriek.

張哲瀚今凌晨突然在IG自拍長達6分鐘影片，直指對方無所不用其極引導粉絲「嗑糖」，意圖讓粉絲覺得兩人是真CP.

Early this morning (the 4th [of May]), Zhang Zhehan suddenly posted a six minute long video of himself to Instagram directly indicating that the other party was resorting to any conceivable means in order to [encourage shipping among fans]*, intending to make fans think that the two were a real couple."

(引導粉絲「嗑糖」literally "induce fans to 'eat candy'". "Candy" in this context is a Chinese slang word that refers to any "sweet" moment between two idols or characters, often deliberate fanservice, that excites the fans who enjoy envisioning them in a romantic context.)

[from body of article]

"日前才以手寫信自述與《山河令》另一位男主角龔俊早已無聯絡，對方代言卻總是出現跟他有關的元素，他不滿被利用;

Just a few days ago, [Zhang] posted a handwritten letter stating that he has not had contact with Gong Jun, the other lead actor in "Word of Honor", for a long time. [He further stated that] the other party's endorsement often featured elements related to [Zhang], and that he was dissatisfied with being exploited.

今凌晨他再以影片出招，以「鍋底的故事」開頭，表示待在鍋底想往上走時，有人不斷往鍋裡倒油，讓他苦不堪言。

Early this morning, [Zhang] made a further move in a video post. Beginning with a story [likening his situation to being] at the "bottom of a pot", [Zhang] expressed that when he was trying to climb out from the bottom of the pot, someone kept pouring oil into the pot, making him suffer unbearably.

張哲瀚直指對方「盜用我的童年照片引導粉絲嗑糖，真是顛覆了我的三觀。」

Zhang Zhehan directly indicated that the other party had "misappropriated my childhood photos in order to induce fans to eat candy, truly undermining my fundamental values and worldview".

批評為了名氣、利益，不惜聯動社群媒體、利用黑水軍，甚至招募粉絲組織，來引導未成年人沉迷所謂的男男CP，並煽動粉絲購買商品或代言「一部戲的成功沒有錯，錯的是這些昧著良心掙黑心錢的人」.

[Zhang] criticized [the other party], [stating that] for the sake of fame and profit, [the other party] unscrupulously coordinated social media, employed the use of malicious water army [bot accounts], and even recruited fan organizations to induce minors to lose themselves in a so-called "male-male couple" and purchase products or endorsements. [Zhang] said, "There is nothing wrong about a drama achieving success. What is wrong is these people who betray their own conscience to ruthlessly pursue money."

Some machine translations may for some reason insert the word "company" but the only word used besides Gong Jun's name is 對方, which simply means "the opposite side/the other party/the other person involved".

One may speculate that Gong's organization may have some responsibility for the issues at hand, but I think that verges into the territory of editorialization as that's not what Zhang said or what has been reported.

Further, while nothing in the article currently is untrue I think the cumulative impression of the article as it stands is that Zhang is unhappy with Gong primarily for exploiting his elements in advertisements. However, given that Zhang is implicating Gong in the broader efforts to slander him following 8/13, the issues he raises regarding the misappropriation of his image and baiting of shippers is merely insult to injury. I think just relocating the section about Zhang's claims about the rumors and water armies up to the front of the video description will solve this issue.

Based on Zhang's words and the content in the Mirror Media article I translated above, I would suggest something along these lines:

In April 2022, Zhang posted a handwritten letter to his recently reactivated Instagram account thanking his supporters and requested that those reading his letter not hurt his family and friends.[39][36] He also wrote that he and another star of Word of Honor had not had any contact since June 2021.[36][40][39] On May 4th, Zhang posted a follow-up video further criticizing the other party, stating that some people and forces were "spending lots of money to create rumors about the political standing of a patriotic citizen, editing Baidu pages, working with social influencers, using large amounts of Internet Water Army to influence the media, and recruiting fan management organizations to induce minors to ship a so-called male-male couple and spend for that purpose."[41][39][42] Zhang also claimed that this former colleague had been using elements related to Zhang in his own endorsements without permission.[41][36][40] This video and follow up posts caused a number of online fans to report his account as a deep fake due to their ongoing belief that the two actors were secretly in a same-sex romantic relationship despite his clarification.[40] While Zhang did not directly indicate which co-star by name, newspapers reported that his posts implicated his co-star Gong Jun in capitalizing on the fandom shipping of the two while Zhang was cancelled.[40][42]

Let me know if you'd like to see a transcript of any parts of what Zhang said or a translation of any of the other Chinese materials. Pertains2 (talk) 22:20, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Transcript of Zhang's comments included in the direct quote:

我万万没想到一些人，一些势力可以以一个青年，一个家庭乃至一个群体的尊严甚至生命为筹码，不惜下重金造谣一个爱国青年的政治立场，修改百度词条，连动营销号，利用大量的黑水军来蒙蔽官方媒体，招募粉丝运营来引导未成年人嗑所谓的男男CP，鼓动其粉丝为其氪金。

The Google translation is fairly coherent and can confirm the content of the various translations I've shared prior. Pertains2 (talk) 01:40, 3 July 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 July 2022

Change :

In a follow-up video, he claimed that this ex-colleague had been using elements related to Zhang in his own endorsements without permission

Into :

In a follow-up video, he claimed that this ex-colleague had been using elements related to Zhang in their own endorsements without permission

Reason : Since the identity of the ex-colleague is unknown and what the sources linked stated are speculations, no assumption regarding the gender please. Beatrixx00 (talk) 13:11, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

 Done SWinxy (talk) 05:06, 29 July 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 17 December 2022

+ Caption text Mchakato (talk) 07:41, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Please add following single released on Dec 15, 2022, in the singles table, at the bottom, under discography section.

Caption text

2022

Sorrowful sunshine/The Sadness of clear sky

憂傷的晴朗

Deep blue one ((深藍者)

Lyricist：Jia Wang, Composer：Jia Wang, Producer: Shanghai Ran Yi Music Media Co. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LnMLLJZHCM&list=TLPQMTYxMjIwMjKh2RUuD6d4RA&index=3 張哲瀚 Zhehan Zhang《憂傷的晴朗》Official Lyric Video], Zhang Zhehan on Apple music, Sorrowful Sunshine.

 Done Lemonaka (talk) 12:00, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you. I checked that the link to Apple music is giving me an error when trying to open from Wikipedia. But one can easily search "Zhang Zhehan" while on Apple music's website an it reaches same link.

Could you try the following link instead? [1]https://music.apple.com/us/search?term=Zhang%20Zhehan Mchakato (talk) 00:30, 18 December 2022 (UTC)