Template:Did you know nominations/Aurochs' head issue

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by PumpkinSky talk 21:17, 30 June 2012 (UTC)

Aurochs' head issue

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~~... that the inscription on the Moldavian Aurochs' head issue stamp of 1858 used the wrong word, "porto" instead of "franco"?~~

Created by Biruitorul (talk). Self nom at 22:48, 3 June 2012 (UTC)

ALT 1: ... that the rare Moldavian Aurochs' head issue stamp was on sale for less than four months in 1858, and that about half of them were destroyed by fire in 1874?

ALT 2: ... that the three series of the Moldavian and Romanian Aurochs' head issue stamp went from fully Romanian Cyrillic to Cyrillic and Latin to fully Latin in the span of four years?

Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Frank Bliss

A nice article on rare stamps that meets the DYK article criteria; we need more of these. Thanks for the work but in English these stamps are commonly known as Bull's Heads. None of the hooks appears very engaging and each one has issues you might be able to fix.

Hook: is not accurate because "porto" is not the word used but the Cyrillic word for porto is improperly used. Maybe rewrite that hook for preciseness.
ALT #1: The first part of this hook is not supported by the prose or the citations. There is nothing to say the stamps went off sale after four months even though the rate changed.
ALT #2: Romanian Cyrillic is never mentioned. ww2censor (talk) 03:51, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate the review, and have the following to say:
- The animal is an aurochs, used on the coat of arms of Moldavia, and the word bour ("aurochs") is routinely used in Romanian, although zimbru ("wisent") and bou ("bull") are also used mistakenly. Calling them "bull's heads" would introduce an inaccuracy, and I for one would need to see some pretty authoritative sources before being persuaded of such a move.
- ПОРТО transliterates to PORTO, so I'm not sure what the issue is there. Porto refers to postage due, but these were regular stamps, and should have used franco to indicate that. It's all in the România Liberă article.
- Under the last section, it says "By the end of October, when they were withdrawn..." Mid-July to end of October is less than four months.
- All right, I clarified this in the article. It's definitely Cyrillic, and clearly Romanian Cyrillic — the Romanian scrisori ("letters") would be pisma in a Slavic language.
I hope at least one of the hooks is now good to go. - Biruitorul ^Talk 14:26, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Sorry but I'm unhappy to proceed any further with this DYK as you appear intent on keeping the article at a name that is not the WP:COMMONNAME and in that case the whole DYK really does not work. look up any of the philatelic sources, or even do a Google search and you will see the name used is "Bull's Head" is the common one. I would work on ALT 1 if the article name is changed. Perhaps someone else can take up the review process but I have made my thoughts known. ww2censor (talk) 03:44, 13 June 2012 (UTC)
- I find that a rather uncollegial reply: I would like the current title, or Cap de Bour, not due to mindless obstinacy against an unequivocally correct alternative (your implication) but out of some well-reasoned considerations. Moreover, I believe I have fulfilled all the rules set forth at WP:WIADYK, so averring that the DYK "really does not work" is meaningless. Having said that, until some final title is decided, how about this as a stopgap?:

... that the rare Moldavian first issue stamp was on sale for less than four months in 1858, and that about half of them were destroyed by fire in 1874?

or even:

... that the rare Moldavian Bull's Head stamp was on sale for less than four months in 1858, and that about half of them were destroyed by fire in 1874? - Biruitorul ^Talk 23:43, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

BlueMoonset (talk) 10:59, 18 June 2012 (UTC)

Now that the title issue has been resolved (for now) and over three weeks have gone by since I proposed this nomination, I would appreciate it if someone would be so kind as to review this. I'll give three reformulated hooks incorporating the new title. - Biruitorul ^Talk 01:25, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

... that the inscription on the Moldavian Bull's Head stamp of 1858 (pictured) used the wrong word, "porto" instead of "franco"?

ALT 1: ... that the rare Moldavian Bull's Head stamp (pictured) was on sale for less than four months in 1858, and that about half of them were destroyed by fire in 1874?

ALT 2: ... that the three series of the Moldavian and Romanian Bull's Head stamp (pictured) went from fully Romanian Cyrillic to Cyrillic and Latin to fully Latin in the span of four years?

I've added the PD-Romanian image of the stamp, which looks good at 100x100. Length and date of creation are fine. All hooks are supported by sources (do not speak Romanian- used Google Translate for general idea). No direct copy that I could see (description of stamp is close, but it is a description after all). The original and ALT1 are the most interesting but the wording of original hook requires mouse-over to understand the meaning. Suggest:
ALT 3: ... that the inscription on the 1858 Moldavian Bull's Head stamp (pictured) was mislabeled as postage due? Froggerlaura ^ribbit 02:39, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
- I appreciate the review; I'm not sure if I'm the one who's supposed to weigh in on your proposed alternate, but at any rate, it's fine by me. - Biruitorul ^Talk 03:25, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
Article is good to go. ALT3 or ALT1 Froggerlaura ^ribbit 03:36, 30 June 2012 (UTC)